kat@grendal.rain.com[44,0]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: kat@grendal.rain.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 06:37:11 +0000 -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > At the London Book Trade Fair last weekend I had the great misfortune to > meet and have a discussion with Jean Hunnisett's publisher, Bill from Player > Press. > - He had been going to publish a book early this year of "corrections > to Janet Arnold's books", but that Jean had decided she didn't want to now > Janet was dead (though what Jean had to do with it he wasn't clear on), but > once Jean died he probably would print it (now that's the kind of publisher > you need - one who can't wait till you die!). If he does, he may be stepping on copywrite toes anyway as this book is already in print (well, it was in the past.) It's called "The Annotated Arnold" and was written by Bob Trump. Most of the corrections are minor (like putting one set of hooks and eyes on a waistband instead of 2, 2 stripes where only one was in the original, measurements off by 1/4", etc.). When Janet was asked about some of the errors, she admitted that her graduate students had done the redrawings for her (but since they have different ways of looking at crediting of students than the US, I guess that's fair.) That doesn't take away from her work as a whole. Nor does it make her a "sloppy historian." Probably what happened is that he has heard some of the normal grouching that people in a close knit community do when they think it will go no further. I'm sure you know the kind of things like that (as they sometimes even appear on this list at times) such as "I wish she had made a better color choice there. It's not a very period color." Or "She missed that source on nitpickydetail#1 when she wrote that." Or "Hey, I can do better than that. Look at that pickydetail#2 on that collar!" It does sound like he was stepping over the bounds of respect, doesn't it. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! kyna grannd [31,1]CSuX:greenburg & hammer was amazon drygoods Subject: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer WAS Re: Amazon Drygoods From: "Kyna Grannd" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:51:34 -0500 -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Ummm....do you have an address or phone number???? Please???? :D ~Kyna >Dear List, > >Not to take anything away from Amazon Drygoods, but I recently ordered >some corset supplies (a busk, boning, etc) from Greenberg & Hammer and >they had what appeared to be wholesale prices on lots of cool things. >The busk I ordered was at least $10 cheaper than any other price I could >find!! > >They are not on the Web and their catalog costs $1 (last I checked) but >if you are willing to send away for the catalog, I think it is well >worth your time! They also give bulk discounts if you have a need to >order large quantities of things. > >And last time I ordered from them, they were very polite, helpful and >mailed my things in a very timely manner. Just wanted to share another >resource! > > >Diana :~> cnevin@caci.co.uk[42,2]CSuX:up&coming books Subject: H-COST: Up&coming books From: cnevin@caci.co.uk Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:47:46 +0100 -Poster: cnevin@caci.co.uk The 1920s book I spoke about is apparently getting more photos, but won't be printed until the current edition has all sold. I'm pretty sure this is it below; Women's Wear of the 1920's by Ruth Countryman , Elizabeth Weiss Hopper Our Price: $57.00 Hardcover (August 1998) Players Press; ISBN: 0887346545 Does anyone on the list have a copy? What did you think? They have also done a 1930s book in the same series (which was there, but I didn't actually view it), which if it is as good as the '20s one looks to be, is another 'must buy'. I'm not sure when this will be coming out, possibly later this year. Regards, Tina Nevin ---------- From: Firefly [SMTP:fire.fly@hotbot.com] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 1999 3:27 PM To: Christina Nevin Subject: (No Subject) Apart from the petty talk, I wonder if Bill has any news about upcoming books? I haven't posted this to the listserve, but your answer may be interesting to everyone, so you may want to post it there as well. Still, he sounds like an irritating fellow! --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com susan carroll-clark [18,3]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:53:12 -0500 -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! This is interesting. A friend of mine e-mailed me a few months ago after I mentioned Ms. Arnold's death in passing on an SCA newsgroup and mentioned that she'd heard similar accusations (that museums didn't like her and that there were errors in her drawings.) I, likewise, just said "Huh?" because I'd never heard a peep from the historic costuming community that she was anything other than extremely well-regarded. I'm just a thesis defense away from a doctorate in history, and I can safely say that Ms. Arnold's research is most definitely *not* sloppy. Susan Carroll-Clark drgurley@aol.com[5,4]CSuX:amazon drygoods Subject: Re: H-COST: Amazon Drygoods From: DRGurley@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:05:15 EST -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com Where, please, can I find Greenberg & Hammer? merouda the true of bornover [17,5]CSuX:greenburg & hammer Subject: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 08:18:25 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover So what is their contact info? They sound great. Cynthia > I recently ordered > some corset supplies (a busk, boning, etc) from Greenberg & Hammer and > they had what appeared to be wholesale prices on lots of cool things. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir franchesca havas [41,6]CSuX:greenburg & hammer Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:23:35 -0600 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" >From http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/mailorder.html Greenberg and Hammer 24 W. 57th St. NY, New York 212-246-2835. 72437,674@compuserve.com steel and plastic boning. Their boning is the cheapest I've found anywhere. Sincerely, F. Havas -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Bornover To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 10:17 AM Subject: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer : :-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover : :So what is their contact info? They sound great. Cynthia : :> I recently ordered :> some corset supplies (a busk, boning, etc) from Greenberg & Hammer and :> they had what appeared to be wholesale prices on lots of cool things. : :-- :Cynthia Long :Merouda the True of Bornover :Barony of Madrone :Kingdom of An Tir : : : kaoswarior@vcnet.com[33,7]CSuX:febreze Subject: Re: H-COST: Febreze From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 09:07:12 -0800 -Poster: KaosWarior@vcnet.com I know that this may be redundant... But, I'm wondering if the afflicted animals in question, were directly sprayed with said product, where upon they licked their fur, there by ingesting the toxin? just something I was wondering about (when all else fails-read the directions) Thanks for your time, Scott >-Poster: Julie Adams > >Joanne Howl, DVM forwarded me this as she just received it in the mail: > >>Date: March 26, 1999 >>To: Whom It May Concern >>Subject: Febrezeô Fabric Refresher >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Steven R. Hansen, DVM, MS >>Diplomate American Board of Veterinary Toxicology >>Senior Vice President merouda the true of bornover [40,8]CSuX:febreze Subject: Re: H-COST: Febreze From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 09:15:13 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover As far as I know it's not accurate that there have been any deaths or injuries. It is however only meant for fabric. C~ > But, I'm wondering if the afflicted animals in question, > were directly sprayed with said product, where upon they > licked their fur, there by ingesting the toxin? > > just something I was wondering about > (when all else fails-read the directions) > > Thanks for your time, > Scott > > >-Poster: Julie Adams > > > >Joanne Howl, DVM forwarded me this as she just received it in the mail: > > > >>Date: March 26, 1999 > >>To: Whom It May Concern > >>Subject: Febrezeô Fabric Refresher > >> > > >>Sincerely, > >> > >>Steven R. Hansen, DVM, MS > >>Diplomate American Board of Veterinary Toxicology > >>Senior Vice President > -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir saqueen@aol.com[16,9]CSuX:up&coming books Subject: Re: H-COST: Up&coming books From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:53:40 EST -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear Tina, I spoke with Ruth Countryman on Tuesday evening about another topic. She did say in passing that she and Liz are working the the 1930s copy. Both Liz and Ruth are detailed people, very saavy, very aware of how people use this type of book. Sally Costume Calendar Series, Calendar 2000 available June 1, 1999 http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com lavolta press [56,10]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: Lavolta Press Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:13:28 -0800 -Poster: Lavolta Press > But no - he proceeded to spend the next ten minutes > libelling Janet Arnold by saying; > - her research was sloppy and inaccurate > - her measurements were off > - the Museums she did business with had disliked her because she used > photos she didn't have permission to (in a JA book?!) and she stole things > from them > - Hunnisett's books were more historically accurate > - He had been going to publish a book early this year of "corrections > to Janet Arnold's books", but that Jean had decided she didn't want to now > Janet was dead (though what Jean had to do with it he wasn't clear on), but > once Jean died he probably would print it (now that's the kind of publisher > you need - one who can't wait till you die!). > If what you say is true, his behavior is highly unprofessional. Aside from that, there's more I could say, but I'll be brief to avoid breaking my own rules. I worked in commercial publishing, for a number of book and magazine authors, for years before starting a small press, and hope I am familiar with the ethics of the business. All publishers and authors of the same type of material are, in a sense, in competition. However, that does not mean they have bad relationships with each other. Often they have excellent relationships. It is only mature to realize that there are other publishers in the market--and also that there are a lot of readers, many of whom will buy books by numerous authors and publishers. If you think another publisher or author has better books and/or marketing than you do, you take steps to improve your own work, rather than slamming theirs. If you are an author who sometimes publishes reviews of other authors' books, you are responsible for assessing and reporting the strengths and weaknesses of those books as honestly as possible--not just slamming them because they're by competitors or praising them because they're by friends. Editors may do a certain amount of complaining to their coworkers to let off steam at the end of the day, about authors who are difficult to work with and suchlike. Just like any other office in any other business. However, such comments are not made in public. They get around and hurt business. Do you want to work with a publisher, who, for example, is hoping their other authors will die? Understandably not. Anyway, I don't know anyone at Players Press. I have always thought they publish excellent books. All I can say is, I hope you're mistaken (though if they ever ask me to lunch I may not accept). Fran Grimble ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm brandy dickson [8,11]CSuX:amazon drygoods Subject: Re: H-COST: Amazon Drygoods From: "Brandy Dickson" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 10:53:36 -0800 -Poster: "Brandy Dickson" So, do they have a phone # or an address I can snail mail to? Greenberg & Hammer diana h [32,12]CSuX:greenburg & hammer Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer From: Diana H Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:28:35 -0800 -Poster: Diana H > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > Greenberg and Hammer > 24 W. 57th St. > NY, New York > 212-246-2835. > 72437,674@compuserve.com > steel and plastic boning. Their boning is the cheapest I've found > anywhere. > They also have a fax & toll-free number-- fax--212-765-8475 toll-free--800-955-5135 Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" david w. rickman [51,13]CSuX:ain t worth shootin Subject: H-COST: Ain't worth shootin' From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 99 15:15:36 EST -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, I was deeply disturbed by the statements made about Janet Arnold by the publisher quoted below. My wife and I had the great honor to know Janet, to have her stay with us a few years ago when she visited the states and to correspond and visit with her in England. I can say without hesitation that she was a great scholar, but more importantly, simply one of finest human beings we have ever known. There is no way that I can convey the deep humanity, grace, humor and, in her last years, courage which Janet brought to her life and with which she touched the lives of those who knew her. She was a person who should never have had an enemy in the world, and yet it seems that she did. Personally, I feel rather soiled to have heard these things. The honor and love in which she was held by both the theatrical and the scholarly world is well demonstrated by the special awards she received, and the exhibit in her honor. I hardly think it is likely that Janet ever did a dishonest or unethical thing in any museum - since all major museums throughout Europe and America hold her today in great honor and always made their collections available to her. As both a scholar and a human being, Janet has already risen far above such a pitiful attempt at slander. David Rickman drickman@state.de.us - -Poster: cnevin@caci.co.uk At the London Book Trade Fair last weekend I had the great misfortune to meet and have a discussion with Jean Hunnisett's publisher, Bill from Player Press. They have put out a 1920s book of fashions and patterns with original photos and photos of the reproductions which is excellent, and which I still intend buying. From there I went on to discuss medieval pattern books with him. When I said Janet Arnold's death was a great pity, he said "Well, not really..." I foolishly thought he meant it was possibly a relief to end the pain of the cancer. But no - he proceeded to spend the next ten minutes libelling Janet Arnold by saying; - - her research was sloppy and inaccurate - - her measurements were off - - the Museums she did business with had disliked her because she used photos she didn't have permission to (in a JA book?!) and she stole things from them - - Hunnisett's books were more historically accurate - - He had been going to publish a book early this year of "corrections to Janet Arnold's books", but that Jean had decided she didn't want to now Janet was dead (though what Jean had to do with it he wasn't clear on), but once Jean died he probably would print it (now that's the kind of publisher you need - one who can't wait till you die!). robin netherton [58,14]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: Robin Netherton Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:02:02 -0500 (EST) -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > This is interesting. A friend of mine e-mailed me a few months ago after I > mentioned Ms. Arnold's death in passing on an SCA newsgroup and mentioned > that she'd heard similar accusations (that museums didn't like her and that > there were errors in her drawings.) I, likewise, just said "Huh?" because > I'd never heard a peep from the historic costuming community that she was > anything other than extremely well-regarded. I'm sure some of these reports from museums, etc. reflect a matter of personality clashes. Being a great researcher and brilliant theorist is not inconsistent with having a strong personality. I did not know Ms. Arnold personally -- we corresponded once or twice, and I heard her lecture -- so I cannot guess how she dealt with others one-on-one, in other settings. Perhaps others on this list worked more closely with her. I do have one anecdote to share. I have a friend who is a librarian/archivist for a small private institution in England. Janet Arnold saw one of the portraits in this collection and decided it was a hitherto unidentified portrait of Queen Elizabeth. The portrait had always been identified as a particular noblewoman associated with the founding of the institution, and my friend had fairly strong documentation for that. (I saw his materials; a copy of her will, which listed jewelry consistent with what was shown in the portrait; a second and undisputed portrait of her that showed a definite facial resemblance to the disputed one; and inventories of the portrait in question from the early 1600s, naming the sitter -- presumably the writer of the inventories would have known E.R. by sight and wouldn't have confused her with the sitter. Taken by itself, the portrait does look a bit like the standard images of E.R., but didn't every woman of that time want to look like E.R.?) Anyway, my friend, who is very mild-mannered and bookish, wrote me to ask if I'd ever heard of the Arnold person, and did I know why she was insisting on writing him weekly to repeat her arguments? I replied that Arnold's reputation was as a stellar costume researcher, and that as far as I was concerned it was richly deserved, but I did not know personally how she dealt with people who disagreed with her findings or theories. I still don't know how it came out, or who was right. But I do know that my friend is not the argumentative sort by nature. He does know his work very well, and he is quite open to new and interesting scholarly interpretations if he sees merit in them. He did not see merit in this, and I know he considered seriously what she said. Sometimes good scholars simply disagree. Given that my friend has no reason to be familiar with Arnold's costume work, I can imagine what his impression he has of her as a scholar based on this one episode. I think it says a lot of him that he contacted me to get a second opinion from someone who does know costume. Perhaps there are others who were in a similar position who did not take that step, and who formed their opinions on the basis of encounters like this. --Robin lynn downward [29,15]CSuX:greenburg & hammer Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer From: Lynn Downward Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 12:42:14 -0800 -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Diana H > >> -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" >> >> Greenberg and Hammer >> 24 W. 57th St. >> NY, New York >> 212-246-2835. >> 72437,674@compuserve.com >> steel and plastic boning. Their boning is the cheapest I've found >> anywhere. >> > >They also have a fax & toll-free number-- >fax--212-765-8475 >toll-free--800-955-5135 > >Diana :~> > >-- I just called the 800 # to ask how much the catalog is. It's free so I requested one. They took my name and address, but they are currently out of the catalog. She guessed that I'd get one in about a month. LynnD kevin and carol [14,16]CSuX:pellison question Subject: H-COST: Pellison question From: Kevin and Carol Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 11:48:41 -0800 -Poster: Kevin and Carol Hello list. I am searching for information/documentation on a garment called a pellison. My costume books do nothing more than mention it in passing as the forerunner of the 18th century Pellise. Is there anyone out there who can suggest where I might find more information? Thank you in advance for your help. Carol Brink merouda the true of bornover [16,17]CSuX:ain t worth shootin Subject: Re: H-COST: Ain't worth shootin' From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:09:23 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Thank you so much for your words. Although I never met Janet Arnold, I too hold her in great esteem and am grateful for her careful work. It is heartening to know that her heart matched her talent. Huge. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir merouda the true of bornover [27,18]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:12:49 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover There are a quick one or two mentions of the fur lined pelison in _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ by Mary Stella Newton. It was listed in somewardrobe accountings. I warn you, it's not much. However, she is highly respected and I wouldn't feel as though I hadn't tried if she was the only documentation I found on it. :) Cynthia > I am searching for information/documentation on a garment called a > pellison. My costume books do nothing more than mention it in passing > as the forerunner of the 18th century Pellise. Is there anyone out > there who can suggest where I might find more information? > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Carol Brink -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir broneske [10,19]CSuX:new simplicity "titanic" pattern Subject: H-COST: New Simplicity "Titanic" pattern From: Broneske Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:16:07 -0800 -Poster: Broneske Hi all, I was out at the fabric store today, browsing through the pattern books when I came across Simplicity pattern #8640 -- almost exact replica of the Titanic blue "Flying Dress". It says "Retro Simplicity" on the front. Of course, I picked it up to add to the pile of projects that I have in mind but haven't completed. Joan Broneske (Yes, I still have to finish my "jump dress" and update my web page on it) sarah toney [21,20]CSuX:new simplicity "titanic" pattern Subject: Re: H-COST: New Simplicity "Titanic" pattern From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:42:48 -0500 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" I have used this pattern (very recently ,of course). It's a nice pattern... just beware... it runs a bit small... ;-) Sarah I was out at the fabric store today, browsing through the pattern books when I came across Simplicity pattern #8640 -- almost exact replica of the Titanic blue "Flying Dress". It says "Retro Simplicity" on the front. Of course, I picked it up to add to the pile of projects that I have in mind but haven't completed. Joan Broneske (Yes, I still have to finish my "jump dress" and update my web page on it) christina [14,21]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: Christina Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:38:37 -0600 -Poster: Christina > There are a quick one or two mentions of the fur lined pelison in _Fashion > in the Age of the Black Prince_ by Mary Stella Newton. I thought that it was spelled pelicon (with the funky french c)? I know I've seen mention of it somewhere else, but I may have to go digging. -Christina merouda the true of bornover [23,22]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:46:46 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Just remember that medieval spelling was not like it is today. Different people spelled the same word quite differently, from what I understand, it just wasn't that important to them. Can you spell phonics? *G* It seems that that is what they used. Pelison, pelicon, pellison. Same thing. And you'll probably find period sources for all three different spellings. And not only that but sometimes the same thing had 3-6 different words all meaning the same garment, such as kirtle, cotehardie, supertunic, supertunice, etc.... it gets confusing but I assure you, it's all accurate and all period. Cynthia > >> There are a quick one or two mentions of the fur lined pelison in _Fashion > >I thought that it was spelled pelicon Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir lilinah@grin.net[23,23]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: lilinah@grin.net Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:09:17 -0800 (PST) -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Christina wrote: > >I thought that it was spelled pelicon (with the funky french c)? I know I've >seen mention of it somewhere else, but I may have to go digging. Just in case inquiring minds want to know, that funky thingy below the "c" is called a cedilla. It means the "c" has a soft "s" sound when followed by an "a", an "o", or a "u"; without the cedilla, the "c" would have a hard "k" sound when followed by an "a", an "o", or a "u" - in French. A "c" before an "e" or an "i" always has a soft "s" sound in French. Lilinah La plume de ma tante est... wherever she wants it :-) katharine whisler [57,24]CSuX:juan de alcega Subject: H-COST: Juan de Alcega From: KATHARINE WHISLER Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 18:02:00 -0600 -Poster: Margo Anderson >Probably what happened is that he has heard some of the normal >grouching that people in a close knit community do when they think >it will go no further. I'm sure you know the kind of things like that >(as they sometimes even appear on this list at times) such as "I wish >she had made a better color choice there. It's not a very period >color." Or "She missed that source on nitpickydetail#1 when she >wrote that." Or "Hey, I can do better than that. Look at that >pickydetail#2 on that collar!" I've long said that costuming is the bitchiest of the arts, although my opinion on that has changed considerably in the years I've been on this list, where we usually manage to behave like ladies and gentlemen. How sad to hear that nastiness about another costume person can extend to slandering the dead. Margo Anderson -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER I apologize if this is a repeat posting-- I think the first time I tried to send it it didn't work. Marsha McLean mentioned "Libro de Geometria, Pratica y Traca" by Juan de Alcega (Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589) as being a useful book and suggested that people look for it in facsimile at a large library or through interlibrary loan. I recently found out some great news about this book-- the publisher of the 1979 translation & facsimile, Ruth Bean in the U.K., finally reissued it this February! I understand that the first shipment will reach U.S. shores sometime early this month. It is $40 (U.S.), or L25 (U.K.), in paperback. To order directly from the U.S. distributor, contact: Quite Specific Media Group, Ltd. To order directly from the U.K. distributor, contact: Ruth Bean Publishers Carlton Bedford MK43 7LP England I hope this helps! (Note, Quite Specific Media Group is the same outfit that publishes "Patterns of Fashion.) Mr. Bean told me by e-mail that his company is planning a new book to be called the "Medieval Tailor's Assistant." It will be interesting to see if it is any better than Hunnisett's book. --Katharine Whisler r.l. shep [45,25]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: "R.L. Shep" Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:22:18 -0800 -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I think all this talk about Janet Arnold is really disgusting and frankly it is just sour grapes. Some people have to make themselves bigger by putting other people down. Janet Arnold has been a leading light in our industry for many years now. Her death is a great tragedy for all of us whether we realize it or not. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks ---------- >From: Margo Anderson >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant >Date: Thu, Apr 1, 1999, 3:19 PM > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>Probably what happened is that he has heard some of the normal >>grouching that people in a close knit community do when they think >>it will go no further. I'm sure you know the kind of things like that >>(as they sometimes even appear on this list at times) such as "I wish >>she had made a better color choice there. It's not a very period >>color." Or "She missed that source on nitpickydetail#1 when she >>wrote that." Or "Hey, I can do better than that. Look at that >>pickydetail#2 on that collar!" > > >I've long said that costuming is the bitchiest of the arts, although my >opinion on that has changed considerably in the years I've been on this >list, where we usually manage to behave like ladies and gentlemen. How sad >to hear that nastiness about another costume person can extend to slandering >the dead. > >Margo Anderson > > genevieve de courtanvaux [67,26]CSuX:long - historical publisher rant Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 19:27:29 -0600 -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Ok, I can't take it anymore.......(yes, I truly believe that Janet Arnold was a costuming goddess) but you are all taking third party information as fact. Please, bear in mind that you were not present at said conversation and therefor do not truly know its context. No on....I repeat....no one can truly know the whole story. So it is my suggestion that we move on from this topic to a new one that is not blaming someone for something with which they can not defend themselves. Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: R.L. Shep To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, April 01, 1999 6:26 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" > >I think all this talk about Janet Arnold is really disgusting and frankly it >is just sour grapes. Some people have to make themselves bigger by putting >other people down. >Janet Arnold has been a leading light in our industry for many years now. >Her death is a great tragedy for all of us whether we realize it or not. >~!~ R.L.Shep >http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks > >---------- >>From: Margo Anderson >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: Re: H-COST: LONG - historical publisher Rant >>Date: Thu, Apr 1, 1999, 3:19 PM >> > >> >>-Poster: Margo Anderson >> >> >>>Probably what happened is that he has heard some of the normal >>>grouching that people in a close knit community do when they think >>>it will go no further. I'm sure you know the kind of things like that >>>(as they sometimes even appear on this list at times) such as "I wish >>>she had made a better color choice there. It's not a very period >>>color." Or "She missed that source on nitpickydetail#1 when she >>>wrote that." Or "Hey, I can do better than that. Look at that >>>pickydetail#2 on that collar!" >> >> >>I've long said that costuming is the bitchiest of the arts, although my >>opinion on that has changed considerably in the years I've been on this >>list, where we usually manage to behave like ladies and gentlemen. How sad >>to hear that nastiness about another costume person can extend to >slandering >>the dead. >> >>Margo Anderson >> >> > > > christopher ballis [42,27]CSuX:regency event (australia) Subject: H-COST: Regency event (Australia) From: "Christopher Ballis" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:56:16 +1000 -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" On Saturday, June 5, 1999 the Australian Costumers' Guild is hosting A Regency Ball The evening's entertainment will include a four course meal, a group of fine musicians, dances including the quadrille and all the latest fashionable dances from London (including simple instructions), a dance caller, and a whist and games room for those disinclined to dance. An attempt at Regency costume (1811-1820, give or take a few years) is compulsory; for advice, contact Miss Purcell on +3 9504 3042. Northcote Assembly Rooms (Northcote Town Hall) High Street, Northcote, Vic. 7:00pm-midnight BYO alcohol, please indicate if you require a special meal Please make cheques/money orders payable to The Australian Costumers' Guild Bookings close Friday, 28 May. For more information, contact The Australian Costumers' Guild, PO Box 322, Bentleigh, 3204 Australia Tel. +3 9504 3042 E-mail stilskin@netspace.net.au christopher ballis [34,28]CSuX:4th annual costumers ball (australia) Subject: H-COST: 4th Annual Costumers Ball (Australia) From: "Christopher Ballis" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:03:28 +1000 -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" The Australian Costumers' Guild is pleased to announce its Fourth Annual Costumers' Ball, Saturday, 28 August, 1999 Melbourne Convention & Exhibition Centre Highlights of the ball include: A costume parade/masquerade (the parade will be run early so that entrants do not miss out on the rest of the evening's events); Full silver service meal; Displays of important costumes and fashion; Dancing; Fun; Etc. Cost is A$55 for International Costumers' Guild members, $65 for others (no door sales, bookings close Monday, 23 August). Doors open 6:30pm; costume parade/masquerade 7:30 (greenroom open from 4:00pm). Parade entry free to all attending - you must be a guild member to enter; numbers are limited so get in early; entry is by pre-registration only; for rules and regs, contact the parade director, Christopher Ballis on... For more information on the ball, if you wish to volunteer, or any other stuff, contact the Australian Costumers' Guild on... the addresses or telephone number above! tigershado@aol.com[12,29]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: Tigershado@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:18:58 EST -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com I seem to remember a message not to long ago about an alternative to grommets/eyelets for lacing. Something about the lacing going through pieces attached to the clothing rather through holes. My memories a little fuzzy on this one. I came across: http://members.aol.com/DrgnflyDsn/Accessories.html and thought I'd get an opinion or two on their eyes & clasps. Barbara Corley Tigershado@aol.com sue shatto [21,30]CSuX:hats Subject: H-COST: hats From: Sue Shatto Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 23:49:15 -0500 -Poster: Sue Shatto List! I am carrying a line of miniature hat and bonnets. each one has been reproduced from fashion plates of the period. They come with the hat, a hat stand, a hat box(that has the fashion plate picture on it) a catalog with the history, a document of authenticity and numbered certificate of the limited addition. They are really magnificent! They are now also making shoes, but I don't have pictures of those yet. They are designed and made in Ireland. Check them out at my web site under Millinery in Miniature. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com diana h [33,31]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: Diana H Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 00:16:11 -0800 -Poster: Diana H Tigershado@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com > > I seem to remember a message not to long ago about an alternative to > grommets/eyelets for lacing. Something about the lacing going through > pieces > attached to the clothing rather through holes. My memories a little > fuzzy on > this one. I came across: > http://members.aol.com/DrgnflyDsn/Accessories.html > and thought I'd get an opinion or two on their eyes & clasps. The findings on the left are perfect for doing circa 1470-1500 Italian! The price isn't all that bad, either. I think I paid just a little less for the ones I bought two years ago. So if you want to do this period in Italians, they would be great to hold the lace for the bodice. Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" henk t jong [34,32]CSuX:ghita? Subject: Re: H-COST: Ghita? From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:48:59 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi you all, Cynthia wrote: > In _Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince_ M.S. Newton mentions > "ghita's" as a garment worn by women. I can't find a description of a > ghita, or haven't yet. It seems to be something like the > supertunica, worn as the outer gown over an undertunic. > Any ideas? In my opinion this is a sleeveless garment of the 1340's mainly worn by royalty or nobility for ceremonial occasions (tournaments, weddings, crownings and other state-occasions). It is heavily embroidered, even powdered with little enameled plates, pearls and gold thread. It is (or they are) lined with fur. It could be that the name has something to do with it's function or the way it was embroidered. You can see similar ones in the Luttrell Psalter worn by the wife and daughter of sir Geoffrey, embroidered with their coats of arms. I personally think that there is not much difference with the also mentioned corset(te), although these seem to have had fastenings of buttons or points and were worn by men and women (a kind of cyclas?) in different lenghts and not so heavily embroidered or not at all. Hope this helps, Henk van cleave & fleming [33,33]CSuX:follow up to alteryears complaint Subject: H-COST: follow up to AlterYears complaint From: "Van Cleave & Fleming" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:01:09 -0500 -Poster: "Van Cleave & Fleming" I wanted to let you all know that I called AlterYears on Tuesday to follow up on my three unanswered emails. The person I spoke with was very polite. The problem with my order was the number of backorders/time it took to ship (the person I spoke with said that not all pattern publishers were in stock and ready to ship at all times, which provides evidence that perhaps they are not trying to keep all patterns in stock), that there was one item marked on my invoice as being shipped that I had never received, and that there was still a backordered item (5 months after placing the order). I received the missing pattern yesterday by priority mail with a note that I would be receiving a refund check for the still backordered item (I had asked to cancel it). So I'm quite satisfied with how this has all resolved itself (although still unsatisfied with the time it took to ship and their ignoring of my three emails). When I spoke with the salesperson I let her know that there had recently been some complaints about their shipping time on h-costume and recommended that they put a BIG note in their pattern catalog which states that they do not stock all items and there may be long delays in shipping. There is a note right now which says something to the effect that items may be backordered and take longer than 30 days to ship. So my problem is resolved, although I have to say that I will stick to ordering from Amazon Drygoods or direct from the publisher if at all possible from now on. Kendra Van Cleave linda yordy [33,34]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: "Linda Yordy" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:07:10 MST -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > . . . an alternative to > grommets/eyelets for lacing. Something about the lacing going through pieces > attached to the clothing rather through holes . . . >came across: >http://members.aol.com/DrgnflyDsn/Accessories.html Great web page find. Have you done business with them? Are they good to work with? I remember seeing something very similar to these in Italian Ren, late 15th century. Can't remember the exact picture, but can look it up at home (I'm at work). In Leonardo da Vinci's Portrait of Ginevra Benci (1474-1476), you see little metal circlets used for the lacing. You can find that portrait on the Web Gallery of Art. The search engine for that site is: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.html (I'd give you an exact address for the portrait, but Netscape brings up a separate window for the enlarged picture [an image viewer?] and I can't find an address) Linda Yordy Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. jpmcteer@aol.com[52,35]CSuX:janet arnold (was ain t worth shootin ) Subject: H-COST: Janet Arnold (was Ain't worth shootin') From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:54:51 EST -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com I have always been impressed with Janet Arnold's published work and would like her legacy to be continued in the community of costume scholars. The original postings after her death suggested a medical research fund, but I was sure that the Costume Society of Britain or America would want to honor her. Has anyone set up a scholarship fund or other award in her name to which we can contribute? Does anyone have further information about the exhibit in Janet Arnold's honor? I believe it is at the V&A? Is there a catalog that we can order from the USA? Joan in Minneapolis from Digest 254 <<- -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, I was deeply disturbed by the statements made about Janet Arnold by the publisher quoted below. My wife and I had the great honor to know Janet, to have her stay with us a few years ago when she visited the states and to correspond and visit with her in England. I can say without hesitation that she was a great scholar, but more importantly, simply one of finest human beings we have ever known. There is no way that I can convey the deep humanity, grace, humor and, in her last years, courage which Janet brought to her life and with which she touched the lives of those who knew her. She was a person who should never have had an enemy in the world, and yet it seems that she did. Personally, I feel rather soiled to have heard these things. The honor and love in which she was held by both the theatrical and the scholarly world is well demonstrated by the special awards she received, and the exhibit in her honor. I hardly think it is likely that Janet ever did a dishonest or unethical thing in any museum - since all major museums throughout Europe and America hold her today in great honor and always made their collections available to her. As both a scholar and a human being, Janet has already risen far above such a pitiful attempt at slander. David Rickman drickman@state.de.us>> merouda the true of bornover [22,36]CSuX:ghita? Subject: Re: H-COST: Ghita? From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:42:02 -0800 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > In my opinion this is a sleeveless garment of the 1340's mainly worn by > royalty or nobility for ceremonial occasions (tournaments, weddings, > crownings and other state-occasions). It is > heavily embroidered, even powdered with little enameled plates, pearls and > gold thread. It is (or they are) lined with fur. Yes, that is it. Excellent. Thanks. Trying to figure out how to make all those little plates. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir margo anderson [32,37]CSuX:janet arnold (was ain t worth shootin ) Subject: Re: H-COST: Janet Arnold (was Ain't worth shootin') From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:40:43 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:54 AM 4/2/99 EST, you wrote: > >-Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com > >I have always been impressed with Janet Arnold's published work and would >like >her legacy to be continued in the community of costume scholars. This reminds me of something I've been pondering for some time. Would it be possible to set up some kind of memorial funding to support costuming on the Net? I'm not sure what, perhaps giving small grants to sponsor Web pages or research to be published on the Web? I'm sure some members of this list would like to memorialize Miss Arnold this way. In addition, while I hope H-Costume goes on forever, I know the individual members won't. There will come a time when, like any community, we lose members to death. This would also give us a way to make contributions in our member's memory. While I have WAY too much going on right now, I would be willing to look into possibilities down the line. Also, my mother is an attorney specializing in wills and trusts, so I could probably get any legal workings taken care of inexpensively. Is anyone interested in this idea? Any suggestions? Margo Anderson margo anderson [24,38]CSuX:fabric question Subject: H-COST: Fabric question From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 10:45:21 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson I got my tax return yesterday, and OF COURSE I bought fabric. I bought 8 yards of cotton calico, printed with a 1 1/2" Paisley motif in greys and taupes. I'm thinking of making this into an 1850's wrapper dress, suitable for work. Is the paisley appropriate, or would it have been used for a more formal dress? I could use it to make a simple street dress, if it's not appropriate for work wear. I really want my wrapper dress to be very accurate and appropriate for an immigrant woman. One of my personal costuming foibles is that no matter how simple I start out, the costume always ends up being on the upper end of the scale as to dressiness and ornamentation. I'm already stretching it a bit by planning to use cotton instead of wool, for budgetary reasons, and I'd rather not make any more concessions. So, should I use it for the wrapper, or for something else? Margo Anderson vickers, jill [49,39]CSuX:costuming guilds Subject: H-COST: Costuming Guilds From: "Vickers, Jill" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:10:20 -0800 -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE7D4D.37540420 I'm looking for a costuming guild for my mom, who lives in Cameron Park (between Sacramento and Placerville). I went on the ICG web site, but didn't see anything for her area. Can anyone tell me if there is a guild local to my mom, or should she just join the GBACG? Thanks, -Jill ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE7D4D.37540420 Costuming Guilds

I'm looking for a costuming guild for = my mom, who lives in Cameron Park (between Sacramento and = Placerville).  I went on the ICG web site, but didn't see anything = for her area.

Can anyone tell me if there is a guild = local to my mom, or should she just join the GBACG?

Thanks,
-Jill

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE7D4D.37540420-- kristen m. sieber [19,40]CSuX:hat id Subject: H-COST: Hat ID From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 14:06:18 -0800 (PST) -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" I am trying to identify a man's hat from the late 18th century. This is a time period I know nothing about, so I will try to describe it. It is similar to a top hat but the crown narrows at the top and the brim is a little wider. I have seen this hat on depictions of lepruchans! (I have been watching too much "Scarlet Pimpernel" and "Horatio Hornblower.) Kristen M. Sieber DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com margo anderson [19,41]CSuX:costuming guilds Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming Guilds From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:10 PM 4/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm looking for a costuming guild for my mom, who lives in Cameron Park >(between Sacramento and Placerville). I went on the ICG web site, but >didn't see anything for her area. > >Can anyone tell me if there is a guild local to my mom, or should she just >join the GBACG? > Hi Jill, I spoke to your mom a few weeks ago. As I told her, there isn't a guild currently but I am hoping to start one very soon. Margo Anderson morelletc2@aol.com[12,42]CSuX:hat id Subject: Re: H-COST: Hat ID From: MorellEtc2@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:05:12 EST -Poster: MorellEtc2@aol.com The style of hat you are trying to identify is generally refered to as a sugar loaf hat or having a sugar loaf crown. If memory serves it first appeared in fashionable circles in England in the last quarter of the 18th century and survived in one form or another into the later part of the 19th century. There are several portraits of regular army officers wearing them for undress during the War of 1812. Mike Morell penny e. ladnier [37,43]CSuX:up&coming books Subject: Re: H-COST: Up&coming books From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:15:30 -0500 (EST) -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" Liz was my costume history and design professor in college. I saw both her books in the making. The work they placed into creating their books is unbelievable. They did a wonderful job of creating scaled/graphed patterns with renderings of each garment. They went to many museums making patterns from original garments. Later...Penny >The 1920s book I spoke about is apparently getting more photos, but won't be >printed until the current edition has all sold. I'm pretty sure this is it >below; > >Women's Wear of the 1920's >by Ruth Countryman > , Elizabeth >Weiss Hopper > >Our Price: $57.00 Penny E. Dunlap Ladnier The Costume Gallery Website http://www.costumegallery.com diana h [39,44]CSuX:costuming guilds Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming Guilds From: Diana H Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 22:32:13 -0800 -Poster: Diana H Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 01:10 PM 4/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >I'm looking for a costuming guild for my mom, who lives in Cameron > Park > >(between Sacramento and Placerville). I went on the ICG web site, > but > >didn't see anything for her area. > there isn't a > guild currently but I am hoping to start one very soon. > > Margo Anderson Dear Margo, I live in a suburb of Sacramento and would love to be involved in a costuming guild also! Would you mind including me in your list when you get things started? Mucho thanks! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" carol j. bell cannon [7,45]CSuX:costuming guilds -- sacramento & vicinity Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming Guilds -- Sacramento & vicinity From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:06:02 -0800 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I haven't heard of any particular costuming guilds. Perhaps it is time for those in the area who frequent this list to change that. :-) Carol balaram@ix.netcom.com[24,46]CSuX:film/costume/rob roy Subject: H-COST: Re: film/costume/Rob Roy From: Balaram@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:33:14 -0700 (MST) -Poster: Balaram@ix.netcom.com Dear Friends: Am a little behind on my E's--Whoever was looking to buy something great for an event, may want to check-out Reelclothes.com, a business in Southern Calif. that resells wardrobe from Hollywood productions. Anything you buy worn by a major star will be pricey-however, background character items may be picked up quite reasonably. I was able to find 2 kilts from Rob Roy for $50 each, one of them worn by Rob's brother played by Brian McCardie, also the very cool leather jacket worn by Eric Stoltz in the final scenes before his demise. They also are selling some wardrobe from What Dreams May Come, inc the Tracker entire outfit... ok, I know, it's more fun to make your own costumes, this is cheating...but it is a very fun site to explore. No, no business connection with me, just thought I'd pass a great resource along. I delt with Lennard and the service was good also. As for Simbad movies--anyone on the list old enough to remember The 7th Voyage of Simbad ? My first fantasy movie as a kid--must have imprinted deeply. All the Best, Bill Z. fern whitaker [12,47]CSuX:my fair lady hat Subject: H-COST: My Fair Lady Hat From: "Fern Whitaker" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:40:35 -0700 (MST) -Poster: "Fern Whitaker" Sorry for the cross-post, but does anyone have any idea where I could = get a frame or hat like the one Audrey Hepburn wears in the Ascot scene = of MFL? It's the BIG white one with the black accents. I can make one = myself out of buckram and so on, but if I could find something close, = I'd rather go that route, since I'm running in 9 different directions as = it is, trying to move the shop.=20 Kat Hargus franchesca havas [9,48]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:39:10 -0700 (MST) -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/l/leonardo/painting/portrait/ginevra.jpg Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas katharine whisler [40,49]CSuX:juan de alcega Subject: H-COST: Juan de Alcega From: KATHARINE WHISLER Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 02:51:14 -0700 (MST) -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Marsha McLean mentioned "Libro de Geometria, Pratica y Traca" by Juan de Alcega (Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589) as being a useful book and suggested that people look for it in facsimile at a large library or through interlibrary loan. The book is a 16th century Spanish guide for tailors showing efficient fabric cutting layouts for various fabric widths. It doesn't explain how to make the clothes, but it does show the shapes of the pattern pieces. I recently found out some great news about this book-- the publisher of the 1979 translation & facsimile, Ruth Bean in the U.K., finally reissued it this February! I understand that the first shipment will reach U.S. shores sometime early this month. It is $40 (U.S.), or L25 (U.K.), in paperback. To order directly from the U.S. distributor, contact: Quite Specific Media Group, Ltd. To order directly from the U.K. publisher, contact: Ruth Bean Publishers Carlton Bedford MK43 7LP England If you prefer to wait for your local bookstore to order it, the ISBN is: 0903585316 I hope this helps! (Note, Quite Specific Media Group is the same outfit that publishes Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" series.) Mr. Bean told me by e-mail that his company is planning a new book to be called the "Medieval Tailor's Assistant." It will be interesting to see if it is any better than Hunnisett's book. --Katharine Whisler jessica kiley [15,50]CSuX:seeking folkwear pattern 508 Subject: H-COST: Seeking Folkwear Pattern 508 From: Jessica Kiley Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 03:23:40 -0700 (MST) -Poster: Jessica Kiley Hello. I am seeking a copy of Folkwear pattern 508, 1915 traveling suit, to purchase. If anyone has a copy of this pattern that they would be willing to sell, please e-mail me with your price and other information. Thanks. Jessica Kiley jkiley@up.edu mzscahlett@aol.com[28,51]CSuX:elizabethn collar search Subject: H-COST: Re: Elizabethn Collar Search From: MzScahlett@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 03:26:44 -0700 (MST) -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com I've been referred to the SCA, where I am told there are merchants who specialize in constructing both collars and the pieces that make them up. Rather than subscribe to an SCA list for a single request, perhaps one of you who is already involved in the SCA would be kind enough to forward my request on to the list. To reiterate: I'm looking for a source for the pieces to make up, or the made-up collars themselves. They are the large pieces of jewelry worn by men over their clothing, of varying stations during the late 16th Century and into the 17th. I do not need a particular "garter" - just a nice piece of faux men's jewelry. angil e:mail "MzScahlett@aol.com" Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing "Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition From Mediocre Minds" Albert Einstein john page [9,52]CSuX:juan de alcega Subject: Re: H-COST: Juan de Alcega From: "John Page" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 10:43:35 -0500 -Poster: "John Page" Alcega should be available from: Quite Specific Media Group, Ltd. ---------- hope h. dunlap [31,53]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 09:59:19 -0500 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" These are tiny brass lacing rings sewn on the surface edges of the front closure of the garment. They can also be sewn on the inside and the edges laced lightly closed for a hidden closure. I believe grommets showed up in clothing starting in the 19th century. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Franchesca Havas -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/l/leonardo/painting/portrait/g inevra.jpg Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas _____ majordomo@indra.com connect@aol.com[16,54]CSuX:juan de alcega Subject: Re: H-COST: Juan de Alcega From: CONNECT@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 12:35:31 EST -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 4/3/99 10:31:43 AM, kdp@tiac.net writes: << Alcega should be available from: Quite Specific Media Group, Ltd. Could someone be so kind as to post the ISBN number for me. Thank you very much. Yours, Pattie Rayl franchesca havas [88,55]CSuX:(atyc) atyc a&s (please forward to other lists) Subject: H-COST: Fw: [atyc] ATYC A&S (please forward to other lists) From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:37:58 -0600 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Fopdejour1@aol.com To: atyc Date: Friday, April 02, 1999 3:42 PM Subject: [atyc] ATYC A&S (please forward to other lists) :PLEASE FORWARD TO OTHER LISTS!!!!!!! : :Announcing the Ansteorran 20th Year Celebration Arts and Sciences :Competitions! : :There are to be two separate competitions at Ansteorra's Twentieth Year :Celebration, Twentieth Year Artisan, and Twentieth Year Laurel. Included in :the Twentieth Year Artisan competition are several sub-competitions sponsored :by different individuals. : :1. The 20th year Artisan......single Item entry (w/ documentation of :course!!!) : :sub-competitions: : : •A. A subtlety competition....documentation not required but :recommended. : : •B. A glass arts competition will be sponsored by Mistress Teleri :ferch Pawl. : Entries may fall into one of three categories: : •Hot/warm glass (including flameworked, blown, and fused :glass, as well as true glass enamels), : •cold glass (such as stained, etched, and engraved glass), : •and glass research papers. Original works using :well-documented period styles and technologies will be most :favored. : Contact Mistress Teleri at esmitman@ghg.net for more information. : : •C. There will be a competition for the best Greek, Roman, or :Byzantine entry sponsored by Mistress Xene. : :2. 20th Year Laurels' Tourney. The Laurels will be the ones competing, and :the populace will get the chance to judge the Laurels. : :The suggested requirements to enter: : : •along with the entered item, : •they can display an early (pre- Laurel) piece. : : : :The sub-competitions are a part of the 20th Year Artisan competition. :Artisans wishing to participate in any of the sub-competitions need to :specify that they are wishing to do so at sign in. : :Set up for the 20th year artisan and the 20th year Laurel competition will :begin at 8 am Friday. They all will run simultaneously on Friday until 5ish. : :There will be a light luncheon provided by the Barony of Bordermarch for :those Laurels who will donate their time to judge the A&S competition. : :If there are any groups wishing to donate a prize, or an individual wishing :to sponsor a competition see the information below for a contact. : :For more information please contact: :Ld. Charles Pierre de Bourbon :Charles Burke 409-721-5133 :fopdejour1@aol.com :Deputy Kingdom MoAS ~ ATYC : :(please visit the 20th year website at http://www.ansteorra.org/20thyr/) : :REMEMBER TO PRE-REGISTER FOR ATYC!!!!!!!!!! : :Twenty years of blood, sweat, tears, fun, family, and friends. Here's to Twenty more! : jean waddie [33,56]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: Jean Waddie Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 19:13:20 +0100 -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <3703CD99.FA34376E@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>, Kevin and Carol writes > >-Poster: Kevin and Carol > >Hello list. > >I am searching for information/documentation on a garment called a >pellison. My costume books do nothing more than mention it in passing >as the forerunner of the 18th century Pellise. Is there anyone out >there who can suggest where I might find more information? > >Thank you in advance for your help. > >Carol Brink Francois Boucher describes a pelicon as an "undergarment, without sleeves, made of animal skin sewn between two pieces of cloth". He later says that this, and various other undergarments, evolve into the 15th century pourpoint (if it's not your period, a pourpoint is like a tight waistcoat, worn over the shirt and under the doublet, which hose tie onto). The last mention of the pelicon is 14th century, and the first mention of the pelisse is 1781, so I'm a bit surprised if it was a direct development! I think a pelisse is usually fur lined? so maybe that's the link? Jean -- Jean Waddie snowfire@mail.snet.net[29,57]CSuX:velvet Subject: H-COST: Re: velvet From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 15:46:31 -0500 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net Greetings everyone! I just subscribed to the list, and I have a few garb questions. I wonder if someone could help? 1. As an Anglo - Norman 12th Century persona (i.e. high Saxon) how could I possibly get away with wearing velvet? I love velvet and would dearly love to justify wearing it and still be true to my persona. Do I have to move forward a little in period to do this legitimately, or should I encorporate some Norman somewhere in my background in order to justify my wearing it? 2. I understand wool and linen are the "stock in trade" garb fabrics for Saxons. This seems it would be a bit hot for summer (and Pennsic)? How does one adapt to cope with the heat? Linen and linen? Only wearing one layer? (walking around in just one's chemise seems a bit wrong somehow...?) I want to stay with the Saxon persona if I can, but I guess I could go to a second cooler dressed persona if I have to... Is pink an acceptable colour for a 12th Century Saxon lady? I saw some beautiful pink linen at the fabric store this week, and as I'm very pale, pink suits me well. Just wondering... Elysant P.S. I'm so excited to finally get onto this list! :-) I've been trying to find you for months now! :-) merlyncc@aol.com[28,58]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: Merlyncc@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 16:24:40 EST -Poster: Merlyncc@aol.com In a message dated 4/1/99 10:21:56 PM Central Standard Time, Tigershado@aol.com writes: > I seem to remember a message not to long ago about an alternative to > grommets/eyelets for lacing. Something about the lacing going through pieces > > attached to the clothing rather through holes. Norsk Engros USA, Inc. has a great variety of Norwegian pewter lacing eyelets and clasps. Their US/Canadian toll free number is 1-800-553-0014 and their fax is 1-800-667-7501. I don't have their mailing address handy, but I can provide it if needed. One great thing about their offerings is that even the clasp styles can be ordered as all eyelets, so there are about 20 styles to choose from, in sevaral sizes. They also have cloak-sized pewter clasps and pewter buttons. Since I have a costume business, I purchase them wholesale in bags of 25 pairs, but they may well sell to individuals in that quantity, or maybe even smaller quantities. It's certainly worth checking them out! Priscilla Schmitz www.faire.net/merlyncc lisa r. [12,59]CSuX:film/costume/rob roy Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: film/costume/Rob Roy From: "Lisa R." Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 16:36:19 -0500 -Poster: "Lisa R." > I was able to find 2 kilts from Rob Roy for $50 > Bill--- Do you mean $500? That's what they're priced at on the web site. ---Deb Rand susan carroll-clark [30,60]CSuX:velvet Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: velvet From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 17:06:53 -0500 -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >2. I understand wool and linen are the "stock in trade" garb fabrics for >Saxons. This seems it would be a bit hot for summer (and Pennsic)? How >does one adapt to cope with the heat? Linen and linen? Only wearing one >layer? (walking around in just one's chemise seems a bit wrong somehow...?) Don't believe the propaganda--wool is a lot cooler than quite a few other fabrics for summer wear, because it breathes. I've worn wool at Pennsic. I think the trick is not to cut the garments too tightly, and to look for the lighter-weight woolens, rather than the coat-type fabrics. But you could probably do just linen if you didn't want to push it :-) >Is pink an acceptable colour for a 12th Century Saxon lady? I saw some >beautiful pink linen at the fabric store this week, and as I'm very pale, >pink suits me well. Just wondering... Pink itself is fine. Pink linen--depends on the colour of pink, because linen can be difficult to dye a dark colour (that is, a dark colour which isn't fugitive) using period techniques. You'd probably be OK with pale pink. Now, if you're talking wool--a friend of mine has been spinning some lichen dyed wool that is exactly the colour I'd describe as "shocking pink." Susan Carroll-Clark snowfire@mail.snet.net[34,61]CSuX:velvet Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: velvet From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 22:42:20 -0500 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net Thank you m'lady for your kind response to my questions. I think I'll take a woollen over-dress with me then, and a cloak. But I think I'll probably fo linen/linen or gauze. Gauze was not something I'd considered! >Pink itself is fine. Pink linen--depends on the colour of pink, because >linen can be difficult to dye a dark colour (that is, a dark colour which >isn't fugitive) using period techniques. You'd probably be OK with pale >pink. This was a pale-ish pink. The colour caught my attention. They also had sky blue and lemon. Both of those colours looked a bit too chalky though. I thought they'd be too modern! But the pink was nice. Good! That's going to be my next project then! Can't wait! BTW how should one wash linen? Does it shrink? Even if pre-washed? Full of questions today! Elysant Now, if you're talking wool--a friend of mine has been spinning some >lichen dyed wool that is exactly the colour I'd describe as "shocking pink." > >Susan Carroll-Clark > > > sara j. davitt [36,62]CSuX:i got some fabric... Subject: H-COST: I got some fabric... From: "Sara J. Davitt" Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 21:56:22 -0600 (CST) -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK.. so here's the deal... I am a painter/printmaker, and I had a briliant idea. i was going to creat this room, onto which was printed my images, so that they would surround you, and be transperant etc. oh my vision was lovely. So I ran myself down to Chicago, and bought many many (25) yards of the most beautiful (and with an incredibly sexy hand to it) orange chiffon Sari Material. It has a simple shiney Orange border on the salvage. I also bought some scraps. I went back and began printing on the scraps. I would lay them on the table, and i was SO excited, and i began experienting with it. They were so pretty. So I wake up the next morning, and actually consider them in installation (up against a window) AND all my hard printed work, all but disapeared!... so, In short, this is Not going to work, and I have 25 yards of the sexiest chiffon I have ever felt on in hands, and nothing to use it for that requires such yardage. (though I will probably make a nice little sundress) --though it would make a perfect top layer for a Double layer Duvet... The big question is... does anyone need this sort of fabric? (or would anyone want to add it to their fabric stash?) I paid about 110$ for the whole lot of it, and I'd even chip in the postage (unless you want me to cut it down) Thanks for listening, and I hope one of you could use some of it! Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** andrea gideon [16,63]CSuX:velvet Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: velvet From: "Andrea Gideon" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 07:40:00 -0700 -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" >BTW how should one wash linen? Does it shrink? Even if pre-washed? > >Full of questions today! > >Elysant What I always do is wash in hot and dry on the hottest setting before cutting, then wash the finished garment in cold and dry on delicate. I usually have no shrinkage this way. Andrea blackcat =^..^= [12,64]CSuX:thoughts on costume books Subject: H-COST: Thoughts on costume books From: "BlackCat =^..^=" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 06:30:55 -0700 -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" I have the opportunity to get my paws on the following books, any opinions? Peasant Costume Europe. by K. Mann A Pictorial History Of Costume (Pepin) --Chris blackcat =^..^= [12,65]CSuX:thoughts on costume books Subject: H-COST: Thoughts on costume books From: "BlackCat =^..^=" Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 06:31:52 -0700 -Poster: "BlackCat =^..^=" I have the opportunity to get my paws on the following books, any opinions? Peasant Costume Europe. by K. Mann A Pictorial History Of Costume (Pepin) --Chris hope h. dunlap [93,66]CSuX:i got some fabric... Subject: H-COST: I got some fabric... From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 12:50:03 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Before you throw away your wonderful initial concept so hastily, it seems like there must be a technical reason that the printing disappeared, and also a technical solution. Sounds like just the wrong technique/paint/ink/whatever. There is nothing inherently impossible about printing on chiffon. Printing a light color on a dark one frequently requires two passes. So if you were printing a light color onto the orange, it's not a failure, you're just half-way there. And sometimes a little colored or gilt dust sprinkled in te wet paint can give the printed work the sheen and body it needs to stand up and stand out. Do some tests on scraps before printing the whole yardage again. Work at the test pieces until you get it right, and then apply your methodology to the whole yardage. Hang in there! Technical assistance is available from books, friends, and commercial sources such as the help lines at Dharma Trading Co., toll-free telephone (800) 452-5227 and www.darmatrading.com and address Box 150916 San Rafael, CA 94915. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Sara J. Davitt -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" OK.. so here's the deal... I am a painter/printmaker, and I had a briliant idea. i was going to creat this room, onto which was printed my images, so that they would surround you, and be transperant etc. oh my vision was lovely. So I ran myself down to Chicago, and bought many many (25) yards of the most beautiful (and with an incredibly sexy hand to it) orange chiffon Sari Material. It has a simple shiney Orange border on the salvage. I also bought some scraps. I went back and began printing on the scraps. I would lay them on the table, and i was SO excited, and i began experienting with it. They were so pretty. So I wake up the next morning, and actually consider them in installation (up against a window) AND all my hard printed work, all but disapeared!... so, In short, this is Not going to work, and I have 25 yards of the sexiest chiffon I have ever felt on in hands, and nothing to use it for that requires such yardage. (though I will probably make a nice little sundress) --though it would make a perfect top layer for a Double layer Duvet... The big question is... does anyone need this sort of fabric? (or would anyone want to add it to their fabric stash?) I paid about 110$ for the whole lot of it, and I'd even chip in the postage (unless you want me to cut it down) Thanks for listening, and I hope one of you could use some of it! Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _____ majordomo@indra.com henk t jong [22,67]CSuX:ghita? Subject: Re: H-COST: Ghita? From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:55:22 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi list, Cynthia wrote: > Yes, that is it. Excellent. Thanks. Trying to figure out how to make all > those little plates. They were little brass, tin, silver or even gold squares, circles or lozenges, pounced out in carved out moulds. Stella Newton has a picture of one on page 43 for bezants, which were round plates. Henk henk t jong [37,68]CSuX:velvet Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: velvet From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:49:22 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Elysant wrote: > 1. As an Anglo - Norman 12th Century persona (i.e. high Saxon) how could I > possibly get away with wearing velvet? No, you won't. There just was no velvet yet, this only arrived since the middle of the 13th c and than only for the super rich. > 2. I understand wool and linen are the "stock in trade" garb fabrics for > Saxons. This seems it would be a bit hot for summer (and Pennsic)? How > does one adapt to cope with the heat? Linen and linen? Only wearing one > layer? (walking around in just one's chemise seems a bit wrong somehow...?) There were hot summers in Saxon England as well; they had to make do with what they had, without giving offence. Light wool and linen was the solution. I have worn medium wool over linen in a 30 degrees C moist atmosphere and was less hot than scantily clad tourists. > > Is pink an acceptable colour for a 12th Century Saxon lady? Yes. Henk henk t jong [60,69]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:43:17 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > Carol and Cybthia wrote: > There are a quick one or two mentions of the fur lined pelison in _Fashion > in the Age of the Black Prince_ by Mary Stella Newton. It was listed in > somewardrobe accountings. I warn you, it's not much. However, she is > highly respected and I wouldn't feel as though I hadn't tried if she was > the only documentation I found on it. :) > Cynthia > Stella Newton interprets pelissons as short silk/sendal capes worn with fur on the outside. This sounds a bit like the fur hoods worn by canons during their services in the cold churches of which she gives a picture on page 59, which there is called an 'aumuce', also known as 'almuce'. In fact, a 'pelisse' is a pelt or fur, a 'pelisson' is a large fur. These names were used for furlined garments as well, so the pelisson should be a large fur-lined mantle, cloak or coat. There is in fact a very large and costly fur-lined oval cloak with a wide hood and a train, which is worn by queens, high noblewomen and high prelates like cardinals, and which is called 'pelicon' (with the cedile under the c). It was buttoned at the neck, had slits for the arms and was completely closed and very expensively furred with light coloured furs. All costumebooks I own say it's 14th c, but I found it only on early 14th c miniatures and other pictures. These books don't mention the pelicon being worn by high clerics. It appears especially in the Life of Saint Louis in the National Library in Paris, dated ca 1313. This large furlined cloak seems to be typically french, because I can't remember ever having seen it in sources from other countries. > > I am searching for information/documentation on a garment called a > > pellison. My costume books do nothing more than mention it in passing > > as the forerunner of the 18th century Pellise. Is there anyone out > > there who can suggest where I might find more information? > > > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > > > Carol Brink I don't know about it being a forerunner of an 18th c garment, since it disappears from view ca 1350 (although I have always thought that one of the protraits of cardinal Rolin by Jan van Eyk (ca 1435) shows a similar cloak), but large fur-lined have always been worn: houppelandes, tabards, bellcloaks, etc. I guess there is really no more information to give, except that Bucknell and Hamilton-Hill, The evolution of fashion, London, 1967, have a pattern of the pelicon. It takes a lot of cloth and a lot of fur, I warn you. Hope this helps, Henk lynnx <@mc.net@indra.com>[70,70]CSuX:publisher rant (warning: long) Subject: H-COST: Publisher rant (warning: long) From: lynnx <@mc.net@indra.com> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 13:08:38 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: lynnx <@mc.net> ***Zot!!*** Your quotes from "Bill" are almost *word-for-word* the same as what a guy told me on the phone when I called out there! He was nice enough to me, but I gotta agree he was awfully hard on Arnold! I assumed he wasn't expecting that what he told me was going to appear on one of the busiest costume lists Out There, but since he (if it *was* the same guy) doesn't seem to mind who hears it, here's my two bits worth... Whoever I talked to said (Background info): Arnold and Hunnisett knew each other and were friends for quite a while, Arnold even sent 1 or 2 of her early books to Hunnisett for "proofing" /corrections. Later Arnold got p.o.'d at Hunnisett for publishing a book that covered part of what one of Arnold's did. However, when Hunnisett heard Arnold was ill, she took pains to help Arnold, and they were back on good terms when she died. How this relates to the "update" thing: The "Arnold-corrections" work PP has on the shelf is by *Hunnisett*, and she didn't want to offend Arnold's fans by publishing it and maybe have them take it as "dissing" Arnold's work. (Sounds considerate enough to me. He said Hunnisett is a very nice person.) Some other stuff he said, which gave me a rather confused impression of *him*: Like you, Tina, I said I felt bad that Arnold had died, and he said flat-out, "I don't - she was a nuisance!" Then went on to tell me pretty much the same boo boos he told you, but added some stuff that I would think would make *him* a little more sympathetic: photos (apparently a pricey proposition) for research. So she took "bad" photos and derived mismeasurements from them. This pissed off the V&A, so they wouldn't let her back there any more. (Doesn't this merit a bit of sympathy for Arnold, who *IF* it's true, was jammed between a rock and a hard place?) BTW, I have all 3 of Arnold's Englishwomen's Dress books, and the Tudor-era one has the most spectacular photos I have *ever* seen - is this guy trying to claim those are "bad" or "used without permission"? ***CYA NOTE: None of this reflect *my* opinion of Arnold's publisher, since I haven't met them. END CYA NOTE*** He also seemed critical of the fact that Arnold *didn't* "update" the measurements she took of the garments for the "typical" modern build; she kept the proportions etc. pretty close to the actual garments. His claim was that readers of her books wouldn't all understand this and would complain because the garments made using her info didn't fit. (Like this is supposed to be a problem to Player's? How??) ***THE RUMOR MILL CRANKS UP*** Re upcoming books, I *think* (Dontquotemeonthis) Hunnisett may be planning on one or 2 more books, I also got the impression that reenactors have expressed annoyance with Hunnisett's patterns because she comes from a *theatrical* point of view, and (if I got this right) she will be considering the reenactor/ historical research crowd more in the next thing she comes out with. ***THE RUMOR MILL SHUTS DOWN*** One conclusion I can draw from all this: Whoever is talking this line about Arnold etc. should be put back in the back room editing or whatever, and let *someone else* do PR for Player's, or they're gonna get some very bad press! And Now, Back To Our Regularly Scheduled Topic, Heather lavolta press [33,71]CSuX:publisher rant (warning: long) Subject: Re: H-COST: Publisher rant (warning: long) From: Lavolta Press Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 13:06:20 -0700 -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > He also seemed critical of the fact that Arnold *didn't* "update" the > measurements she took of the garments for the "typical" modern build; > she kept the proportions etc. pretty close to the actual garments. His > claim was that readers of her books wouldn't all understand this and > would complain because the garments made using her info didn't fit. > (Like this is supposed to be a problem to Player's? How??) If you publish patterns in one size (which in many cases is the only practical way to publish them), whether they are in one modern size or one original size, either way most people will have to alter them. IMO he should just have said, "I know some publishers do it differently, but our policy is to publish all women's patterns in modern size 10" (or whatever they use). What is Players Press publishing anyway, that has everybody calling them? Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm gerekr@aol.com[23,72]CSuX:pellison question Subject: Re: H-COST: Pellison question From: Gerekr@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 17:12:09 EDT -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com >I am searching for information/documentation on a garment called a >pellison. My costume books do nothing more than mention it in passing >as the forerunner of the 18th century Pellise. Norris is what's closest to the computer, 8-). P. 97-98 of v.2 "The only women's garment to be noticed in this reign is an over-robe called the PELICE or PELICON (with circunflex on C) ..." from period Richard I: a fur lined over-garment ("supertunic"), just-below-knee length and roomy elbow-length sleeves, not usually belted (but when there are belts, worn at the hip). He gives "pelice" as Norman French for fur, therefore the name is based on the fur-lined-ness. I like Norris, but others may want to use this as a starting place for more rigorous documentation... Chimene [44,73]CSuX:published pattern drafts Subject: H-COST: Published pattern drafts From: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 99 17:29:29 -0400 -Poster: > He also seemed critical of the fact that Arnold *didn't* "update" the > measurements she took of the garments for the "typical" modern build; > she kept the proportions etc. pretty close to the actual garments. His > claim was that readers of her books wouldn't all understand this and > would complain because the garments made using her info didn't fit. > (Like this is supposed to be a problem to Player's? How??) I like the patterns drafted straight off the originals. As the cut is adjusted for size, the patternmaker is adding a bit of her or his own interpretation to the cut. While we frequently discuss matters of how tightly corsets fit, I think we agree that it takes the body away from the "typical" modern build. In many cases, the bustline is raised significantly from the typical! When using Janet Arnold's drafts, I know that I will need to adjust the size. If I bought a pattern in my size, I would also realize that additional fitting is necessary. Other costume makers might think that no further adjustment was necessary in a sized pattern. I don't think Janet Arnold intended her books to make it easy on costume makers. She seems to be sharing her research in a more exact form. Some have mentioned errors, but the information is presented as close to the original as Janet Arnold could get it at the time. We've found her books very valuable in making costumes. Others who could find them useful are those comparing sizes of extant garments, waist to hip or waist to bust ratios, etc. The fabric of that particular garment is described, which is not done as often with sized patterns. Janet Arnold takes us into collections that we may otherwise not reach. There is a new book out with pattern drafts of items in the Chester County Historical Society collection, and another coming out soon of clothing in the DeWitt Wallace (Williamsburg) collection. We're buying these books! -Carol Kocian julie adams [9,74]CSuX:velvet Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: velvet From: Julie Adams Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 15:43:45 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: Julie Adams by some eventually. Julie Adams lavolta press [31,75]CSuX:published pattern drafts Subject: Re: H-COST: Published pattern drafts From: Lavolta Press Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:14:47 -0700 -Poster: Lavolta Press > There is a new book out with pattern drafts of items in the Chester > County Historical Society collection, What is the title and author? > and another coming out soon of > clothing in the DeWitt Wallace (Williamsburg) collection. We're buying > these books! > > - This is Linda Baumgarten's book? Or?? Thanks for any info, Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm arcadiacb@aol.com[11,76]CSuX:new 18th clothing book Subject: H-COST: New 18th clothing book From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 19:40:41 EDT -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com The new book on 18th century clothing is "Fitting and Proper: 18th Century Clothing from the Collection of the Chester County Historical Society" by Sharon Ann Burnston ISBN 1-880655-08-X, Spurlock Publishing Co. Inc. Forty measured and gridded garments (mostly women's and mens, but a few children's and accessory pieces), with photos of the originals as well. Another must for everyone's bookshelf. Charlene Bullard lavolta press [26,77]CSuX:new 18th clothing book Subject: Re: H-COST: New 18th clothing book From: Lavolta Press Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 16:45:22 -0700 -Poster: Lavolta Press > The new book on 18th century clothing is "Fitting and Proper: 18th Century > Clothing from the Collection of the Chester County Historical Society" by > Sharon Ann Burnston ISBN 1-880655-08-X, Spurlock Publishing Co. Inc. Forty > measured and gridded garments (mostly women's and mens, but a few children's > and accessory pieces), with photos of the originals as well. Another must > for everyone's bookshelf. > Charlene Bullard > Thanks . . . Amazon.com has just parted me from some more hard-earned $$. Fran ---------------------------------------------- Visit our web sites! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Vintage and historic dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm [26,78]CSuX:published pattern drafts Subject: Re: H-COST: Published pattern drafts From: Date: Sun, 4 Apr 99 22:10:53 -0400 -Poster: I wrote, >> There is a new book out with pattern drafts of items in the Chester >> County Historical Society collection, And Fran asked, >What is the title and author? _Fitting and Proper_, by Sharon Ann Burnston. "18th Century Clothing from the Collection of the Chester County Historical Society". ISBN 1-880655-08-X Price - $55. The publisher is Scurlock of Texarkana, TX. I believe this is the same publisher that did _Tidings from the Eighteenth Century_ by Beth Gilgun, which is in its second edition. >> and another coming out soon of >> clothing in the DeWitt Wallace (Williamsburg) collection. We're buying >> these books! > >This is Linda Baumgarten's book? Or?? Yes, and it's supposed to be available in December. -Carol Kocian kevin and carol [19,79]CSuX:pelisson again Subject: H-COST: Pelisson again From: Kevin and Carol Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 20:08:08 -0700 -Poster: Kevin and Carol -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" writes: > In fact, a 'pelisse' is a pelt or fur, a 'pelisson' is a large fur. > These names were used for furlined garments as well, so the pelisson > should be a large fur-lined mantle, cloak or coat. There is in fact a > very large and costly fur-lined oval cloak with a wide hood and a > train, which is worn by queens, high noblewomen and high prelates like > cardinals, and which is called 'pelicon' (with the cedile under the > c). It was buttoned at the neck, had slits for the arms and was > completely closed and very expensively furred with light coloured > furs. So what would you call the garment worn by the Duchess of Burgundy in the 15th century painting: Hunting with Falcons at the Court of Phillip the Good? This painting is in Boucher and all the court are in white. It appears that her 'cloak' is cut like a tabard with maybe a yoke? Carol diana h(smtp:dch@inreach.com)[90,80]CSuX: costuming guilds Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming Guilds From: Diana H[SMTP:dch@inreach.com] Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 23:06:24 -0700 -Poster: Broneske ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE7EEF.C83124E0 I'm in Roseville, count me in too! Joan B. ---------- -Poster: Diana H Margo Anderson wrote: > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 01:10 PM 4/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >I'm looking for a costuming guild for my mom, who lives in Cameron > Park > >(between Sacramento and Placerville). I went on the ICG web site, > but > >didn't see anything for her area. > there isn't a > guild currently but I am hoping to start one very soon. > > Margo Anderson Dear Margo, I live in a suburb of Sacramento and would love to be involved in a costuming guild also! Would you mind including me in your list when you get things started? Mucho thanks! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE7EEF.C83124E0 eJ8+IiEGAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ABwBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAEUAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAFNNVFAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQAAAAAe AAIwAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AAzABAAAAFAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AAwAVDAEA AAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAFgAAACdoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tJwAAAAIBCzABAAAAGQAA AFNNVFA6SC1DT1NUVU1FQElORFJBLkNPTQAAAAADAAA5AAAAAAsAQDoBAAAAAgH2DwEAAAAEAAAA AAAAA3QyAQiABwAYAAAASVBNLk1pY3Jvc29mdCBNYWlsLk5vdGUAMQgBBIABAB0AAABSRTogSC1D T1NUOiBDb3N0dW1pbmcgR3VpbGRzADoJAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcEAAQAFwAGABgAAAATAQEggAMADgAA AM8HBAAEABcABgAGAAAAAQEBCYABACEAAAA0RDZGRjNCQkUxRUFEMjExQTMzQTQ0NDU1MzU0MDAw MAAPBwEDkAYAsAUAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQDgYiBv Kn++AR4AcAABAAAAHQAAAFJFOiBILUNPU1Q6IENvc3R1bWluZyBHdWlsZHMAAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAW AAAAAb5/Km8gu/NvTurhEdKjOkRFU1QAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABQA AAB1bmljb3JuQHNvZnRjb20ubmV0AAMABhCQOWqUAwAHEFMDAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJTUlOUk9T RVZJTExFLENPVU5UTUVJTlRPT0pPQU5CLS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006RElBTkFIU01UUDpEQ0hASU5S RUFDSENPTVNFTlQ6RlJJREFZLEFQUklMMDIsMTk5OTExOjMyAAAAAAIBCRABAAAALgQAACoEAAAc CAAATFpGdX3HKKb/AAoBDwIVAqQD5AXrAoMAUBMDVAIAY2gKwHNldO4yBgAGwwKDMgPGBxMCg7oz Ew19CoAIzwnZOxX/eDI1NQKACoENsQtgbvBnMTAzFCALChLyDAGCYwBAIEknbSALgAsH8RHwdgMQ bGUsIDUFoHUCMCAHgBsSdG9MbyEKhQqFSm8DkUIGLh0MCvRsaTE4MMEC0WktMTQ0DfAM0LMgMwtZ MTYKoANgdAWQfQVALSJXCochCwwwIdZGnQNhOiNeIdYMgiBEBzAAbmEgSFtTTVToUDpkEbBAC4AW AADQ5GguBaBtXSL/JA0GYA8CMCU/Jksk8GlkYXlNG+BBIdADETAyG+AxRjkuMC4QMTozEiBQZk0o 7yQNVG8rLyZLSOItCFBzdHUHgC7/Kf44dWJqIhExHyZLUmXjNfAy8U9TVDXwMxQLgJBnIEd1AxBk cx5f+R9jMzYg1xQiDAEh1gqFPC1QMyEEkDXwJxUgPJUn7T4dDE0KwGdvE3BKbgSBcwIgIHch4jpt HQw+PPhADTwAwEAhQBxkaRYAIiAFoG4ubt8SAD8WRRcTcAVAMC6AGSBBLsEgNC8yLy5BLfYwH8Eb 4HkIYEDsQjBFmOY+GuIVkG9rOPICEAXANydQBaA4tmc5QkpjbXlnHFADcBvgd2hAQB+QdrMHkRsh Q2EHgANgbkHHSlAKwGtIeChiEgB3/wnhBgEFAE1xAjBAQABwS7AaUAtgYwSQG5MpLiCXGtBA4Crx IEDBdGgccHhJQ0dRwSbwAJAiACwxQcdidXRIeERAZG7eJwVAEfAccABweVJQSjb/UmBKkShBHkZC MFJCFgAbENpzVPJhQcdLdGMIcBYAfQIwbEwgU/FRoU1wVjBv/nA48lBRMzAKwFICHHBM8H5yTCBA sESxRS9ADB0MRP8oUD/lU1YKhVGwTNIbEidQTnM1kAhwJvBvZk/Od38IYEuhFZBg4VBRT1AbEXb/ BvBM8EuwYRIKhUreB0BAsHohUZBXYwNH0jjhZHJj/wpAREA5ARxkR9EFwB+QMzDvTIFPoUfRCoVn EgBSQTjx1wQgWwMJgD8/LXURsEBAM1JQAHBrcxz9JxQ6fvc/HSLXCoUqcF9xb3J/c435CoUiVFeD VoEcshxQVXH7HFFEQG8FAGOBaoQbIR+Q/mZjgw2wB0BA4FMgKIB4gvZMY2EKhXNMoGMRVPJj0Y9b YQqFYcJSUW0uIm73IklbYlNreRxzIkTvKEEbAEpzA6BJAIADcAMA5wDQe4YdDCBff9+A74H//4Lb eoYw8EngKFBjclWwBCD/AMADEDjyaPIb4BHwUJGFQutawgDAagWwZANwRCBnYT9QACiSeoZ4QlJD B4FzYQFqMCBVTlNVQlMgQ1JJQkU4BVVNvkU5nzquGjU8HRUhAI6wAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAA QAAHMGBShGQqf74BQAAIMGBShGQqf74BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAABxrA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE7EEF.C83124E0-- merlyncc@aol.com[15,81]CSuX:alternative to grommets/eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: Alternative to grommets/eyelets From: Merlyncc@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:20:18 EDT -Poster: Merlyncc@aol.com Update on source for lacing eyelets: I checked with Norsk Engros (which I should have done before posting!) about quantity orders. They only sell wholesale, which means you can order only if you have a business and a resale tax permit from your state. Sorry! If anyone who doesn't have a resale number needs at least 25 pairs, let me know and I can order them for you. Priscilla Schmitz www.faire.net/merlyncc steven heeter [17,82]CSuX:elizabethn collar search Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Elizabethn Collar Search From: "Steven Heeter" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 09:28:48 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: "Steven Heeter" Milady, If I am not mistaken you are looking for a piece that is similar in construction to a plaque belt. That is to say a piece constructed of plaqards of metal joined by rings (of a sort). Usually the individual plaques would have relief designs worked into them. Am I correct? If so, please tell me what motif you seek and perhaps we can help one another. I am an armorer and jeweler and am currently working on a belt peice. Stephan deCaerleon aka Steve Heeter jessica wilbur [19,83]CSuX:janet arnold question Subject: Re: H-COST:Janet Arnold question From: "Jessica Wilbur" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:01 -0400 -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: lynnx <@mc.net> > > BTW, I have all 3 of Arnold's Englishwomen's Dress books, and the > Tudor-era one has the most spectacular photos I have *ever* seen - Which book is this? I did not know she had done any work on Tudor clothing. Please enlighten me! Thanks! --Jessica franchesca havas [12,84]CSuX:armor patterns Subject: H-COST: armor patterns From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 12:49:11 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I am in search of leather armor patterns that are online. If you know of any please send them my way! :) Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas david s. mallinak [48,85]CSuX:tartan in va Subject: H-COST: Re: Tartan in VA From: "David S. Mallinak" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 23:24:59 -0700 -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" kathleen@niagara.com wrote: > First...how wide will the fabric have to be for someone about 6'5" to 6'6"? As wide as can get. but what ever will cover him from his head to his knee, I have found to work well. > Second...can anyone let me know the best places to find good deals on > suitable fabric in his area? He lives in VA near Washington. I don't > particularly care about the sect, as long as it isn't something truly > obvious like Royal Stewart. Blues and heathery tones would look great with > his colouring, but again...not that picky. The best time to get wool tartan fabric is late winter and early spring. At this time the fabric stores are getting rid of the winter fabric (wool) to make room for spring/summer fabric > Third...any ideas on footwear? He loves to go barefoot, but if it rains... For 16th/17th century Highland Scots a American Indian mocassin with the part that is loose either cut off or tied up over the ankle is a resonable looking Highland shoe. A pampotte, a Scottish 18th footwear can be make by taking a piece of leather 3 to 4 inches larger than the foot, put holes around the edge and then lace up to fit. > Fourth...accessories. I figure a plaid pin, a belt, dagger, a version of a > sporran for practical reasons, maybe a bonnet if he'll wear one...anything else? A man would not use a kilt pin, he would use a strong straight pin to hold up the material. A dirk (dagger), a sporran ( a simple pouch with a flap over the opening), and bonnet are OK I have replyed to you directly as my PC is recently recovered from a disk crash. Your most obediant servant David S Mallinak matchlck@erol.com Adjunt MacLean's Company (serving in Scotland for King Charles in 1645) catherine de calais [57,86]CSuX:janet arnold question Subject: Re: H-COST:Janet Arnold question From: "Catherine de Calais" Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:22:27 PDT -Poster: "Catherine de Calais" I think the book she is referring to is "Patterns of Fashion" c1560-1620 Tudor/Elizabethan era. Catherine >From: "Jessica Wilbur" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST:Janet Arnold question >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:01 -0400 >From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Apr 05 14:23:06 1999 >Received: from [204.144.142.2] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id MHotMailB8D274B700F2D1B98320CC908E020FA90; Mon Apr 05 14:23:06 1999 >Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA10997;Mon, 5 Apr 1999 15:33:57 -0600 (MDT) >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id OAA07302for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:57 -0600 (MDT) >Received: from smtp1-alterdial.uu.net (alterdial.UU.NET [192.48.96.22])by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id OAA07153for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:35 -0600 (MDT) >Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp1-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP(peer crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119])id QQgjrd29496for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:18:35 GMT >Message-Id: >Priority: normal >In-reply-to: <199904041908.NAA25017@indra.com> >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) >Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com >Precedence: bulk > >-Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > > >> >> -Poster: lynnx <@mc.net> > >> >> BTW, I have all 3 of Arnold's Englishwomen's Dress books, and the >> Tudor-era one has the most spectacular photos I have *ever* seen - > > >Which book is this? I did not know she had done any work on Tudor clothing. Please >enlighten me! > >Thanks! >--Jessica Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com the purple elephant [26,87]CSuX:greenburg & hammer Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenburg & Hammer From: The Purple Elephant Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 15:37:19 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Franchesca Havas wrote: > > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > >From http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/mailorder.html > > Greenberg and Hammer > 24 W. 57th St. > NY, New York > 212-246-2835. > 72437,674@compuserve.com > steel and plastic boning. Their boning is the cheapest I've found anywhere. > Do they do international mail order? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kathleen@niagara.com[18,88]CSuX:unsubscribing Subject: H-COST: unsubscribing From: kathleen@niagara.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 07:01:08 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: kathleen@niagara.com Due to extraordinary circumstances, I will be unsubscribing for a while. Have fun and I will see you when my life calms down. Kathleen/Catriona () _/)(\_ "Tehee!" quod she, and clapte the wyndow to /~~\ /____\ katharine whisler [41,89]CSuX:alcega isbn Subject: H-COST: Alcega ISBN From: KATHARINE WHISLER Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 09:31:00 -0500 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" 2 things... first, I ordered a 1920's pattern from Lark Books last week, and it was waiting for me when I got home yesterday... and this was normal shipping! I am very pleased! Just had to say that after all the "difficulties" we have been bringing up with other places. Secondly, and for anyone who doesn't care, sorry, but there is a beautiful "Swashbucklers" hat for sale on e-bay if anyone is interested. It's a nice addition to a pirate costume, though most likely not accurate for any real historical sense. It's still fun... It's at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=87607172. Sarah -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Here's the info on the Alcega book from U.K. "Books In Print": Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589: Libro de Geometria, Pratica y Traca DATE ENTERED: 990315 STATUS IN FILE: Changed Alcega Juan de Pain J.(Tr.); Bainton C.(Tr.); Nevinson J.L. (Ed.) R Bean Feb 1999 28cm.254. 137ill. n.e. COUNTRY OF PUBLICATION: England In English & Spanish. Tr.fr.Spanish J.Pain & C.Bainton. Ed.J.L.Nevinson SUBJECT HEADINGS: Customs, Costumes, Folklore Costume That should be enough information! --K hope a. greenberg [18,90]CSuX:alcega isbn Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega ISBN From: "Hope A. Greenberg" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:05:32 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: "Hope A. Greenberg" For any of you who have or have seen the Alcega book, can you tell us what kinds or garments are represented. From previous posts and from Arnold's books there seem to be at least three men's loose gowns and a lady's farthingale. What else is there? Mostly men's or some other women's? And what dates does it cover? Many thanks! - Hope ----------------- Hope.Greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont cnevin@caci.co.uk[20,91]CSuX:ot cross-stitch software request Subject: H-COST: OT cross-stitch software request From: cnevin@caci.co.uk Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:38:53 +0100 -Poster: cnevin@caci.co.uk Hi, sorry for this slightly OT question. One of my workmate's wives is looking for a cross stitch software program and I said I would help by asking around. She has seen the CrossStitch Pro software and likes the top end program but it's too expensive at GBP 400. Does anyone have any alternatives? She mostly wants it for graphing out cross-stitch and maybe some lace. Her 'wants' were - mirror and maybe rotational functions - easily usable graph plotting - easy access to a full colour chart, pref. either Anchor or DMC - having already built motifs is optional If anyone is on an embroidery list they could also ask, I would really appreciate it. Please email me off list. Thanks a lot. Regards, Tina thorngrove@geocities.com cnevin@caci.co.uk[22,92]CSuX:medieval tailor s assistant Subject: H-COST: Medieval Tailor's Assistant From: cnevin@caci.co.uk Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 16:39:57 +0100 -Poster: cnevin@caci.co.uk >>I hope this helps! (Note, Quite Specific Media Group is the same outfit that publishes Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" series.) Mr. Bean told me by e-mail that his company is planning a new book to be called the "Medieval Tailor's Assistant." It will be interesting to see if it is any better than Hunnisett's book. >>Katharine Whisler I saw the planned section on men's jerkins for the "Medieval Tailor's Assistant", as well as meeting Ruth and Nigel Bean - both lovely people, and one of the NICE things that happened to me that weekend . It's pretty much going to be aimed at the re-enactors/recreationist market, serious research with patterns (usable even by the sewing-impaired such as myself). I was very impressed, and can't wait till it comes out. I think it'll an invaluable aid for a great many of us. Regards, Tina jessica wilbur [68,93]CSuX:janet arnold question Subject: Re: H-COST:Janet Arnold question From: "Jessica Wilbur" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:50:16 -0400 -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Oh, Ok... I have that one, I just don't think of it as Tudor, since it doesn't cover anything before the reign of Elizabeth I. YMMV. --Jessica > > -Poster: "Catherine de Calais" > > I think the book she is referring to is > > "Patterns of Fashion" c1560-1620 Tudor/Elizabethan era. > > Catherine > > >From: "Jessica Wilbur" > >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: Re: H-COST:Janet Arnold question > >Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:19:01 -0400 > >From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Apr 05 14:23:06 1999 > >Received: from [204.144.142.2] by hotmail.com (1.5) with SMTP id > MHotMailB8D274B700F2D1B98320CC908E020FA90; Mon Apr 05 14:23:06 1999 > >Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])by > server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id PAA10997;Mon, 5 Apr 1999 > 15:33:57 -0600 (MDT) > >Received: (from majordom@localhost)by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) id > OAA07302for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:57 -0600 (MDT) > >Received: from smtp1-alterdial.uu.net (alterdial.UU.NET > [192.48.96.22])by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.1) with ESMTP id > OAA07153for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:35 -0600 (MDT) > >Received: from jwilbur1 by smtp1-alterdial.uu.net with SMTP(peer > crosschecked as: 119.pcpool89.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.89.119])id > QQgjrd29496for ; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 20:18:35 GMT > >Message-Id: > >Priority: normal > >In-reply-to: <199904041908.NAA25017@indra.com> > >X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) > >Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com > >Precedence: bulk > > > >-Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > > > > > > >> > >> -Poster: lynnx <@mc.net> > > > >> > >> BTW, I have all 3 of Arnold's Englishwomen's Dress books, and the > >> Tudor-era one has the most spectacular photos I have *ever* seen - > > > > > >Which book is this? I did not know she had done any work on Tudor > clothing. Please > >enlighten me! > > > >Thanks! > >--Jessica > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > kat & kent [10,94]CSuX:busk suppliers - us Subject: H-COST: Busk suppliers - US From: Kat & Kent Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:05:10 -0500 -Poster: Kat & Kent Okay, I didn't pay any attention the first several rounds and I think the agreement is that Greenburg & Hammer is the cheapest source for boning (the lady I talked to said they're out of the catalog for about two months) but is it also the best source for busks? Kat susannah eanes [33,95]CSuX:busk suppliers - us Subject: Re: H-COST: Busk suppliers - US From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:13:29 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Kat, So far, G&H is my best bet. Saundra Altman may have a few in various sizes left; she stopped carrying them awhile back but last fall I got some smaller ones from her -the front clasp kind you use in ACW & later corsets. Otherwise, Greenberg & Hammer is the one I usually use. I have a catalog; if you want I'd be happy to look up the numbers for you so you can order some. Susannah >From: Kat & Kent >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" >Subject: H-COST: Busk suppliers - US >Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:05:10 -0500 > > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Okay, I didn't pay any attention the first several rounds and I think >the agreement is that Greenburg & Hammer is the cheapest source for >boning (the lady I talked to said they're out of the catalog for about >two months) but is it also the best source for busks? > >Kat Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com henk t jong [37,96]CSuX:pelisson again Subject: Re: H-COST: Pelisson again From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:25:43 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Carol wrote: > So what would you call the garment worn by the Duchess of Burgundy in > the 15th century painting: Hunting with Falcons at the Court of Phillip > the Good? > > This painting is in Boucher and all the court are in white. It appears > that her 'cloak' is cut like a tabard with maybe a yoke? > I suppose you mean the painting in the Musee de Versailles called "La Chasse du Duc de Bourgogne" which is a 16th c copy of a painting dated ca 1420-30. I don't know which lady is the duchess, because that's not at all clear by either dress or other characteristics. Maybe you mean the lady with the long red necklace reaching to her knees, with the furry cloaklike thing? This could be called a large furred cloak or a pelisson, but it does not look like a 14th c one. It is hazardous to use this painting as a source for burgundian dress, as the 16yh c painter did not exactly understand what he was depicting in the manner of dress. This is very obvious from the headdresses and hats which are poorly understood, as ar some of the garments. Maybe the cloak used to look different on the original painting; I don't know. But a pellison in the conservative meaning it isn't... Henk susannah eanes [82,97]CSuX:corded petticoat Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: corded petticoat From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:29:47 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com > >Hi Margo, > Re your questions on a corded petticoat (one of the things I've always meant >to make and never have time), I'll describe the original I have in my >collection. It's made of 3 panels (2) of 35" and one of 16" (after seaming) of >a fairly heavy white cotton. The cording is poking out in some places and is >a 1/4" diameter white cording. From wist to hem is 38". >From these measurements it appears that this petticoat may be earlier than the 1850s. It is fairly narrow, less than 90" around. May be 1830s or even mid-to-late 1820s. The cording starts >app. 18" from the waist, with the first 4 cords being 2" apart, then they >gradually go down to app 1 1/2 apart. Ther are 11 cord rows in all, just the >fabric pulled together and stitched in back to make the rows, plus a double >cord for the hem. Fairly typical of 1st quarter of the 19th c. construction for drawstrings or cords in petticoats, corsets, and shortgowns. The double corded hem is also very typical of that period. The hem seems to an extra 1 1/2: which is turned under and >stitched in place just under the last cord row. The waistband is 1" wide, just >a 2"+ piece folded over and the petticoat skirt is gauged/cartridge pleated >into the waistband. Again, fairly typical of the earlier period. The placket opening is 11" long, done on the join of two >panels. The interersting thing to me is that on the waistband are (5) 3/4" >buttonholes--one at each end of the waistband, one at the opposite end (center >front?) and one on each side between these three. Possibly this was a >petticoat for a young girl or teen and was fastened to some type of >corset/waist? (any helpful comments out there??) Often, a "petticoat body" consisted of two parts --the petticoat skirt, and an attached, or detachable, bodice, which held the petticoat at the right place in order to give the correct fashion silhouette, very important in the 1830s and earlier when the waistline was higher than the actual waist, and therefore had to be contrived into place. I haven't actually seen one that buttoned on, but it was a common way to attach upper and lower parts of little boys' outfits in the later part of the 18th century and early 19th, (slops/trousers to undervest) so maybe this wasn't unusual. Just a thought. There is a replaced part of >a panel plus a repair by the placket. Is the stitching very fine, or not? Just curious, not necessarily helpful in dating. I will check my references tonight as to the color brown in the 1850s for corded petticoats. Also, I have a "recipe for a corded petticoat" from a class of Saundra Altman's. You might try e-mailing her for a copy, or asking her if she minds us sharing ours with the list. Just couldn't resist sticking my oar in again... Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com susannah eanes [35,98]CSuX:corded petticoat Subject: Re: H-COST:corded petticoat From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:33:18 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I would like to make an 1850's corded petticoat. Would it be appropriate to >make it in a solid color other than white, preferably dark? I have 200 >yards of brown cording, I hate brown so it's unlikely I'll use it for trim, >and it would show through white. Also, how is the petticoat attached to the >waist band? Flat pleats, gathers, or cartridge pleats? I believe in the 1850s cartridge pleats were still the preferred method of attaching skirts to waistbands. Susannah > >Margo > > "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com susannah eanes [47,99]CSuX:19th century men s undershirts Subject: Re: H-COST: 19th century men's undershirts From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 10:38:41 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" In the mid 19th c. and earlier, men often wore shirts of wool under their outer clothes. Wool was considered from much earlier times to be the healthiest thing to wear "next the skin" [sic]. Ref. the Workwoman's Guide (c. 1839), for a start. It was credited with keeping unhealthy draughts and sudden changes in temperature away from the body, among other less likely things, such as keeping ladies' & children's minds on their work, and away from bodily concerns. These shirts were made of flannel, or a knitted fabric called "stockinette," in the 1820s. You might also look at Cunnington's "The History of Underwear," for some more refs. Hmmm... Susannah >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: 19th century men's undershirts >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:43:42 -0800 (PST) > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm researching men's working wear of the 1850's and I have questions about >undershirts. Since I've found a number of references to wool shirts, I >assume something must have been worn under them for cleanliness and comfort. >Was this simply an ordinary shirt in linen or cotton, or was there a >specific undershirt style? I have found mention of undershirts knitted of >merino wool, which I understand is soft enough to wear next to the skin. >Were these the norm, or was there something else? > >Margo >(Who STILL hasn't found her copy of the History of Underclothes) > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com margo anderson [26,100]CSuX:corded petticoat Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: corded petticoat From: Margo Anderson Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:53:29 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson >I will check my references tonight as to the color brown in the 1850s >for corded petticoats. Actually, I'd prefer almost any other color that the brown cording won't show through: I hate brown so much that it would depress me to have on a brown petticoat. I charge extra to sew brown clothes, too! Also, I have a "recipe for a corded petticoat" >from a class of Saundra Altman's. You might try e-mailing her for a >copy, or asking her if she minds us sharing ours with the list. Hmm...someone posted a "recipe for a corded petticoat" in response to my query at the civilian reenactor's Discussion Forum at http://www.cwreenactors.com/forums/civilian/civilian.html Is this the same article? If so, we should let the poster know that it should at least be credited to Sandra. Margo Anderson In Sunny California...with six inches of fresh snow. karla sexsmith [13,101]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: Karla Sexsmith Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 11:27:34 -0700 -Poster: Karla Sexsmith Greetings everyone, I am looking for places to start with regards to researching late-period (ie. 1400-1500's) French women's clothing (for SCA purposes). Does anyone know of any books or websites that would be a good place to start? Thanks, Karla snspies@aol.com[9,102]CSuX:ot cross-stitch software request Subject: Re: H-COST: OT cross-stitch software request From: SNSpies@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 14:31:08 EDT -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com I like and use Pattern Maker. The standard version that I have cost ca. $60 while the professional version is $120. You can visit their web page at www.hobbyware.com and email them at support@hobbyware.com. Good program! Nancy/Ingvild ariyana kylstram [16,103]CSuX:h-costume-digest v4 #260 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #260 From: Ariyana Kylstram Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram Aiee! I deleted the contact info for the Juan de Alcega book. Could someone please repost it for me? Thanks! .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ heather [19,104]CSuX:publisher rant Subject: H-COST: Publisher rant From: heather Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:44:14 -0700 -Poster: heather > What is Players Press publishing anyway, that has everybody calling > them? Jean Hunnisett!! And lots of other theatrical and costuming stuff. This discussion got started when someone on the list ran into one of their people at a show, who started dissing Janet Arnold's work. Needless to say she (the list-er) was unimpressed. I had earlier called them to answer a query of Where are they? on the list, and gotten the same diatribe on Arnold. (So, of course, I *had* to stick my oar in.) Hope this doesn't make things *too* much more confusing! Heather susannah eanes [22,105]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:11:58 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Speaking of the Sound of Music in my last post, does anyone know or have an opinion of the late 1930s costuming in that movie? Is it bad or good for Austria? It is nothing like people were wearing in America during that time. I know the movie played havoc with the real story of the Family von Trapp, but I fell in love with the playclothes & dresses made out of Fraulein Maria's draperies and the lovely brown (OK, I won't use brown) princess-seamed jumper worn by Julie Andrews. Just for a novelty, I might make something like them, as I have a great green & white print that looks like the drapery. It would be nice to know if it were something like might have been worn in Austria in the late 30s, not just a Hollywood idea of the 1960s. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com sarah toney [33,106]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: Re: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 17:21:44 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" On this topic, if you live in the area at all, the Von Trapp Family owns an Inn in Midstate Vermont that is interesting to visit. I believe they do have some old "family possessions" which may include clothing. Either way, a great place to visit. Sarah >Speaking of the Sound of Music in my last post, does anyone know or have >an opinion of the late 1930s costuming in that movie? Is it bad or good >for Austria? It is nothing like people were wearing in America during >that time. I know the movie played havoc with the real story of the >Family von Trapp, but I fell in love with the playclothes & dresses made >out of Fraulein Maria's draperies and the lovely brown (OK, I won't use >brown) princess-seamed jumper worn by Julie Andrews. Just for a >novelty, I might make something like them, as I have a great green & >white print that looks like the drapery. It would be nice to know if it >were something like might have been worn in Austria in the late 30s, not >just a Hollywood idea of the 1960s. > >Susannah > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." > --William Morris > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > heather [16,107]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: heather Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:36:23 -0700 -Poster: heather > Which book is this? I did not know she had done any work on Tudor > clothing. Please enlighten me! (realizing I may have my neck in the guillotine for not making ***sure*** Tudor is the right word for "1560 to 1620"...:-) It's: Patterns of Fashion, The cut and construction on clothes for men and women c. 1560-1620. Janet Arnold 1985. ISBN 0 333 38284 6 The publisher of my copy is "M Papermac/DRAMA BOOK New York" but I'd do a search on ACSES or Bookfinder, someone else might be doing it now. Heather susannah eanes [56,108]CSuX:corded petticoat Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: corded petticoat From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:08:26 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>I will check my references tonight as to the color brown in the 1850s >>for corded petticoats. > >Actually, I'd prefer almost any other color that the brown cording won't >show through: I hate brown so much that it would depress me to have on a >brown petticoat. I charge extra to sew brown clothes, too! > ;-D Will check as to suitability of which colors might be best. I know I will find it in some book or other with good refs... btw, I love brown, but it doesn't love me. As a matter of fact, my fiance calls my much-loved brown suit my "the poor didn't want this" suit, after a similar one worn by Julie Andrews in the Sound of Music. He frowns and says, "please don't wear that! It just isn't your color." And he's right. sigh... > Also, I have a "recipe for a corded petticoat" >>from a class of Saundra Altman's. You might try e-mailing her for a >>copy, or asking her if she minds us sharing ours with the list. > >Hmm...someone posted a "recipe for a corded petticoat" in response to my >query at the civilian reenactor's Discussion Forum at >http://www.cwreenactors.com/forums/civilian/civilian.html Is this the same >article? If so, we should let the poster know that it should at least be >credited to Sandra. > Yep! Good thinking. > >Margo Anderson >In Sunny California...with six inches of fresh snow. Yikes! And I thought I was to be pitied after a beautiful weekend in South Carolina, upon returning to the cold and windy mountains... Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com van cleave & fleming [19,109]CSuX:ot: hat for sale Subject: H-COST: OT: hat for sale From: "Van Cleave & Fleming" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:25:24 -0400 -Poster: "Van Cleave & Fleming" Is anyone interested in purchasing a large-brimmed black felt hat from me? It's the Hatcrafter's "Cartwheel" style which I bought from Amazon Drygoods (you can see it pictured in their General catalog, or online at http://hatcrafters.com/page9.htm ), hoping it would look early 1900's/1910's, but it's very 1940's/1950's instead. It's brand new, never been worn, one size. I bought it for $53 from Amazon Drygoods, I'll sell it for $30 plus shipping. If you're interested, please email me directly. Kendra Van Cleave tweedlebop@earthlink.net merouda the true of bornover [24,110]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 14:46:38 -0700 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I'll stick me head on the block with ya. I believe many consider "Elizabethan" to be Tudor. She *is* a Tudor. FWIW, Cynthia > (realizing I may have my neck in the guillotine for not making > ***sure*** Tudor is the right word for "1560 to 1620"...:-) > It's: > Patterns of Fashion, The cut and construction on clothes for men and > women c. 1560-1620. Janet Arnold 1985. ISBN 0 333 38284 6 The > publisher of my copy is "M Papermac/DRAMA BOOK New York" but I'd do a > search on ACSES or Bookfinder, someone else might be doing it now. > > Heather -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir jessica wilbur [18,111]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: "Jessica Wilbur" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 18:49:34 -0400 -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > I'll stick me head on the block with ya. I believe many consider > "Elizabethan" to be Tudor. She *is* a Tudor. FWIW, Cynthia Very true! I was just explaing to Heather privately that I tend to make a distinction in my own mind between "Tudor" and "Elizabethan". I much prefer earlier Tudor styles to later Elizabethan ones. Eliz. looks fussy to me, whereas Tudor has much more graceful lines. Just a quirk of mine, I guess. =) --Jessica betsy delaney [159,112]CSuX:announcement: tackycon rides again! Subject: H-COST: ANNOUNCEMENT: Tackycon Rides Again! From: Betsy Delaney Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:51:30 -0400 -Poster: Betsy Delaney Now scheduled: Tackycon 1999 (http://www.hawkeswood.com/tackycon/index.html) "What the heck is a Tackycon?" Glad you asked. Tackycon is a relaxacon for costumers. It is generally scheduled for whenever the World Science Fiction Convention is held off continent. There is no pressure, no "official" schedule of events, usually a silly masquerade, shopping trips and lots of hanging out and socializing. Don't miss your chance to socialize and be silly with the silliest of us! Activities in the Works: Friday Night Barbeque & Roast The Great Langley Park Maryland Shopping Spree & Masacree The Silly Hat Contest The "Name that Mannequin" Competition Wading Pools-a-go-go And probably more, though we haven't thought of it yet. Win Fabulous Prizes! Watch Really Old Videotaped Costume-Con Masquerades! See Full Grown Adults Play in Wading Pools! The details so far are as follows: many to reserve. This information needs to be back to me as soon as possible. The two hotels being considered are: The Comfort Suites: Route 1, South of Cherry Lane Advantage: Near 10 trillion restaurants (Well, okay, 30 or 40...) Room Rate (unofficial): $85 plus tax Suites hold up to six per room including sleeper couch. Best Western Maryland Inn Route 198 and I-95 Advantage: Five minutes from Hawkeswood, right off I-95. In-house restaurant, cafe and bar. Room Rate (unofficial): $82 (10 rooms reserved) $79 (20 rooms reserved), $75 (30 rooms reserved) King or Double Double, Smoking or Non-Smoking, Indoor or outdoor entrance, some rooms overlook pool. I'll need to set the room block with the chosen hotel. I'd really LOVE a headcount/roomcount, if possible. Cost: $20 per adult attendee $10 per child under 12 Under 6 free (Fee to be used for supplies and stuff; possibly for room rental if we take a meeting room at the hotel of choice.) Disclaimers and other stuff: This event is being run (more or less) in conjunction with the Hawkeswood Sewing Circle, regularly scheduled for the third Saturday every month. For more information about the Sewing Circles, please send me email: (mailto:betsy@hawkeswood.com) The house comes cat-enabled. He's a nice cat, but he does live here. Medicate accordingly. We don't have kids (yet), but lots of our friends do and the house is sort-of child proof. Plan accordingly. The main events may be held either at Hawkeswood or at the hotel, depending on the deal I can cut with them. Watch this web page for further details as they become firmer. Please feel free to distribute this information to whomever you think might be interested. And remember, this is supposed to be fun, dammit! How to Register: Send your Tackycon 1999 registration fee (US Funds only) with the following details to the address below: Tackycon 1999 P.O. Box 1044 Laurel, MD 20725-1044 301-369-3563 mailto:tackycon@hawkeswood.com Your First & Last Name: Additional People you are registering: Address: City, ST ZIP/PC: Phone Number: Email Address: Accommodations required (# of nights): (# of People): Arrival Date: Departure Date: (Note: This is for statistical purposes only! You will be responsible for making and confirming your own reservations, once a hotel room block has been established! Casa Hawkeswood has floor crashspace, but not for lots of people. The house isn't that big!) Dietary Restrictions/Accessability Issues: Anything you might like to do while you're here: Anything else you think I should know: Print this form and mail with your payment to the address above. Please don't send cash in the mail! This event is a Hawkeswood Production http://www.hawkeswood.com/tackycon/index.html Cheers! -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ albertcat@aol.com[13,113]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: Re: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 19:41:04 EDT -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 4/6/99 5:28:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, oh_susannah@hotmail.com writes: << does anyone know or have an opinion of the late 1930s costuming in that movie? >> It is a Dorothy Jenkins 1960s fantasy. Only the nuns are dressed correctly. My advice is to ignore the film's costuming all together. Actually I just ignore the whole thing. the purple elephant [27,114]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: The Purple Elephant Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:33:21 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Karla Sexsmith wrote: > > -Poster: Karla Sexsmith > > Greetings everyone, > > I am looking for places to start with regards to researching late-period > (ie. 1400-1500's) French women's clothing (for SCA purposes). Does anyone > know of any books or websites that would be a good place to start? > That's a very broad time period during which costume changed quite a bit. How accurate are you looking to be? Do you want a quick overview of the whole period or a tighter focus on a specific part? When you say 'late- -period' do you really mean Tudor/Elizabethan eras? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ marsha mclean [27,115]CSuX:alcega Subject: H-COST: Alcega From: Marsha McLean Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:10:00 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Marsha McLean - -Poster: "Hope A. Greenberg" WROTE: For any of you who have or have seen the Alcega book, can you tell us what kinds or garments are represented. From previous posts and from Arnold's books there seem to be at least three men's loose gowns and a lady's farthingale. What else is there? Mostly men's or some other women's? And what dates does it cover? It has patterns for many styles of men'sand women's dress: round gowns, loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: doublets, jerkins, cloaks, capes, loose gowns, hose of various types, venetians, etc. It was written in 1589 for the fashions of that year. It is especially useful for the variety of styles, there are several examples of everything. His cutting diagrams (taking the difference in fabric width into account) are very educational: I waste far less fabric now. Marsha Marsha McLean "Be yourself - it's who you do best" karla sexsmith [21,116]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: Karla Sexsmith Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 17:10:47 -0700 -Poster: Karla Sexsmith >That's a very broad time period during which costume changed quite a bit. >How accurate are you looking to be? Do you want a quick overview of the >whole period or a tighter focus on a specific part? When you say 'late- >-period' do you really mean Tudor/Elizabethan eras? I haven't really pinned my persona down to a specific time yet, so I was hoping to get a bit of an overview of that era... (and yes I know I'm sort of doing things backwards, but I'm not looking to limit myself to only garb from that era, I just want at least one outfit to match my persona)... the name I've chosen can be documented to as early as 1462, so I'm looking for something between there and about 1600. I think what I'm looking for would be more like during the Renaissance period, but France instead of Italy. Does that help? :) Karla the purple elephant [32,117]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: The Purple Elephant Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 11:13:56 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Karla Sexsmith wrote: > I haven't really pinned my persona down to a specific time yet, so I was > hoping to get a bit of an overview of that era... (and yes I know I'm sort > of doing things backwards, but I'm not looking to limit myself to only garb > from that era, I just want at least one outfit to match my persona)... the > name I've chosen can be documented to as early as 1462, so I'm looking for > something between there and about 1600. I think what I'm looking for would > be more like during the Renaissance period, but France instead of Italy. > > Does that help? :) Well it eliminates 50 years which is a start *grin* For pre-1500 I'd suggest "Mediaeval Costume in England and France" by Mary Houston. Unfortunately most of the stuff I can think of off the top of my head is English, and this is the period when French and English costume begin to differ. However, if you don't mind risking the differences you could try "A Handbook of English Mediaeval Costume" and "A Handbook of English Costume in the 16th Century", both by some combination of Cunningtons. You can also look at books on memorial brasses (good for late 15th early 16th century England) or some of the late Books of Hours. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ robin netherton [71,118]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: Robin Netherton Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 21:51:22 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, The Purple Elephant wrote: > For pre-1500 I'd suggest "Mediaeval Costume in England and France" by > Mary Houston. Unfortunately most of the stuff I can think of off the top > of my head is English, and this is the period when French and English > costume begin to differ. However, if you don't mind risking the > differences you could try "A Handbook of English Mediaeval Costume" and > "A Handbook of English Costume in the 16th Century", both by some > combination of Cunningtons. You can also look at books on memorial > brasses (good for late 15th early 16th century England) or some of the > late Books of Hours. Let me take this ball and run with it. Yes, this is the period in which national differences became apparent. But so did art styles, which actually is a help when you're researching. Generally, for late 1500s and 1600s, each of the Western European cultures shone in a different medium. Brasses are almost exclusively English. Flanders produced superb portraits and other paintings. French costume is easiest to track through manuscript art and tapestries, and then paintings in the 1500s. Yes, you can find English manuscripts and paintings, and Flemish brasses and tapestries -- but if you want a general overview, go to where the bulk of the sources are. I'd head for a good library, preferably an older university library. Look in the catalog, under subject, for books on manuscript painting -- e.g. Harthan's _Books of Hours_ -- and anything on tapestries, and anything that says French art of the Middle Ages or the Renaissance or "Gothic" or whose title specifies one of your target centuries. Write down all the shelf numbers you find under these topics -- they'll come in clusters, as some books will be grouped with international, some with French art, and some by medium. Then head for the *oversize* shelves, and browse these numbers. Pull all the books with good color photos, and give preference to books that focus on France. After you've leafed through the ones that are exclusively French, your "eye" will be attuned to the styles in your range. In fact, before you start, get hold of Davenport's _History of Costume,_ which organizes art by century *and country*, unlike most costume books. The pictures are small and black-and-white, but many of the ones you find here you will see later, reproduced in the art books. You can use Davenport as your overall guide to fashion changes in this period, and the art books for a better view. It's best to avoid books that rely on re-drawings of art. I would also suggest avoiding books that focus on English costume until you feel *very* familiar with the French styles and can spot the differences. In the 1400s, the differences are often in headdress; in the 1500s, as clothing gets more structured, the English silhouette in general heads for a boxier, more angular look, while the French retains some curves. And, when you're looking at artwork, be suspicious by nature of anything worn by a saint, a goddess, or a historic queen. Often you'll find incredible and interesting costumes on these people, but if you never see the like on a *real* person, then it probably is at least partly the artist's imagination. Best sources are donor portraits (within religious paintings) and stand-alone portraits; illustrations of stories are often fine if the person being illustrated is a regular noblewoman, not a saint, goddess, queen, or supernatural figure. For non-noble dress, look at labors of the months, genre paintings, crowd scenes, etc. --Robin, in the midst of feverishly preparing a presentation on dress of the 1400s, and thus surrounded with slides of English brasses, Flemish portraits, and French manuscripts joan m jurancich [48,119]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 20:07:17 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:13 AM 04/07/1999 +0930, The Purple Elephant wrote: > >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Karla Sexsmith wrote: > >> I haven't really pinned my persona down to a specific time yet, so I was >> hoping to get a bit of an overview of that era... [snip] the >> name I've chosen can be documented to as early as 1462, so I'm looking for >> something between there and about 1600. I think what I'm looking for would >> be more like during the Renaissance period, but France instead of Italy. >> Does that help? :) >Well it eliminates 50 years which is a start *grin* >For pre-1500 I'd suggest "Mediaeval Costume in England and France" by >Mary Houston. Unfortunately most of the stuff I can think of off the >top of my head is English, and this is the period when French and >English costume begin to differ. However, if you don't mind risking the >differences you could try "A Handbook of English Mediaeval Costume" and >"A Handbook of English Costume in the 16th Century", both by some >combination of Cunningtons. >You can also look at books on memorial brasses (good for late 15th early >16th century England) or some of the late Books of Hours. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Claire F. Clarke I do know of one book for French costume information, it's even *in* French . The book is "Le Costume Civil en France du XIIIe au XIXe Siecle" by Camille Piton, printed in Paris in 1926. I first saw this book in the UCDavis Shields Library; when I did find one to purchase (several years ago), it cost me $100. The book has many examples of original (not re-drawn) pictures, bas-reliefs, and sculptures (almost all the illustrations are in black and white, but the descriptions usually describe the colors if the originals were colored). The pictures are not only of noble or royal personages, but include many illustrations of peasants and merchants as well. It is well worth the trouble to try to get this book via ILL if your local university library does not have a copy. Bonne chance, Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com annbwass@aol.com[7,120]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: Re: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:34:31 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I have to agree. I know people in theater costuming who worship the movie, and I could never figure out why. I think it's just dreadful. Ann Wass penny e. ladnier [31,121]CSuX:chat room Subject: H-COST: Chat Room From: "Penny E. Ladnier" Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 22:45:34 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: "Penny E. Ladnier" We have another fun thing to do on The Costume Gallery, a live chat room that is devoted to Historic and Vintage Costumes. You can find it at http://www.costumegallery.com/chat/chat.html We hope in the future to have scheduled featured guests in the chat room. I am open for suggestions as to who you would like to have as a featured guest. So please send suggestions and why they should be featured. If you know how I may contact this person, please include this information. Depending on the success of the chat room, I might add more chat rooms in the many diverse areas of the costume and fashion industries. Later...Penny Penny E. Dunlap Ladnier The Costume Gallery Website http://www.costumegallery.com pierre & sandy pettinger [13,122]CSuX:forming a costume guild Subject: H-COST: Re: Forming a costume guild From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 23:33:33 -0500 -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger FYI for those who were mentioning starting a costume guild: If you wish to form a chapter of the International Costumer's Guild, info may be found at: www.costume.org/about/HowTo.html This is the "How to Start a Chapter" page. The basic site is www.costume.org. Sandy the purple elephant [20,123]CSuX:late-period french women s clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: late-period French women's clothing sources? From: The Purple Elephant Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:59:14 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Robin Netherton wrote: > actually is a help when you're researching. Generally, for late 1500s and > 1600s, each of the Western European cultures shone in a different medium. > Brasses are almost exclusively English. Flanders produced superb portraits > and other paintings. French costume is easiest to track through manuscript > art and tapestries, and then paintings in the 1500s. Yes, you can find Of course! *smacks head* How could I forget tapestries?! I've just pored over an entire book of them looking at c1500 clothing....*grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ bronwyn clarke [13,124]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: Bronwyn Clarke Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:05:57 +1000 -Poster: Bronwyn Clarke I have a whole afternoon and evening in Vienna, Austria in August in between plane flights. Does anyone know of any costume or textile museums in Vienna that I could visit? Thanks for any info, Bronwyn dietmar [31,125]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: Dietmar Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 02:45:54 +0000 -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, Bronwyn wrote: > I have a whole afternoon and evening in Vienna, Austria in August in > between plane flights. Does anyone know of any costume or textile > museums in Vienna that I could visit? Well, it's not exactly a costume or textile museum, but one of THE BEST art museums in the world is the Kunsthistorisches (art history) Museum in downtown Vienna. Many, many famous paintings are housed there: Bellini, Raphael, Titian, Tintoretto, Velazquez, Bosch, Durer, Cranach, Holbein, Breugel, Rubens, Van Dyck, Vermeer, Rembrandt, Gainsborough, etc. They have a collection of sculpture and decorative arts which features a number of tapestries (and the Cellini salt cellar). There are also collections of Greek and Roman Antiquities, Coins, Arms and Armor, and my personal A full day isn't enough to see all of the good stuff that they have. Enjoy your trip, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." david w. rickman [57,126]CSuX:men s wool shirts Subject: H-COST: Men's wool shirts From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 99 8:23:23 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Regarding Margo's question about men's wool workshirts of the 1850's, there are countless photographs of working men, especially Gold Rush miners, wearing wool overshirts from this period.. Perhaps that is what Margo is looking for. These shirts had been around for some time, with many descriptions of sailors, express drivers, mountain men, soldiers, etc. wearing them in the 1830's and 1840's. They were an early "readymade" garment - mass produced in several sizes. Almost always they were either of red or blue wool, and pretty substantial. There are indications that some men did wear them next to the skin, while others undoubtedly wore "vests" (sleeveless undershirts, often, as Susannah points out, of wool, though linen and cotton were also used). But many of the photos and paintings of the day show a woolen shirt worn over a white cotton or linen shirt, the white shirt serving as an "undershirt." My impression is that often these woolen shirts served in place of a coat and waistcoat when working men, especially those far from home, lacked these. Thus you often see men in white shirts with cravats, with a woolen shirt worn over this. The woolen shirt's collar is unbuttoned to reveal about as much as a waistcoat would have shown of the white shirt front and the cravat. Unfortunately, no woolen work shirt seems to have survived in this country - well, at least no one seems to have found one yet. But a friend of mine, Jim Miller, has produced a small monograph on the subject of the woolen work shirts seen in Gold Rush photographs, and has even produced a pattern. It is speculative, but I've seen the shirts he has made from it and they look extraordinarily _right_ for the period. If Margo, or anyone else, would like me to send them the source for Jim's publications, I would be happy to do so. Just e-mail me directly. David Rickman drickman@state.de.us > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm researching men's working wear of the 1850's and I have questions about >undershirts. Since I've found a number of references to wool shirts, I >assume something must have been worn under them for cleanliness and comfort. >Was this simply an ordinary shirt in linen or cotton, or was there a >specific undershirt style? I have found mention of undershirts knitted of >merino wool, which I understand is soft enough to wear next to the skin. >Were these the norm, or was there something else? > >Margo >(Who STILL hasn't found her copy of the History of Underclothes) > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com susannah eanes [29,127]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: Re: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:04:56 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >-Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > >I have to agree. I know people in theater costuming who worship the movie, >and I could never figure out why. I think it's just dreadful. >Ann Wass OK, Ok. I think it's because it was the first movie I ever saw, and I was about 4 years old. I thought Julie Andrews had descended straight from heaven, I had never heard such a voice. I still cry when she comes singing back over the fields to return to her beloved children. Sniff, sniff... I think the word that was used in the '70s to describe it was "schmaltzy." Thanks for your patience while I dip into the nostalgia bucket! Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com j,k,s&a baird [14,128]CSuX:sound of music & elizabeth Subject: H-COST: Sound of Music & Elizabeth From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 08:23:11 -0500 -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Nostalgia time-- I remember standing in a loong line to get in to Sound of Music--I've never seen so many nuns in one place as were in that line! Saw Elizabeth last night--what a strange movie. But visually impressive--images keep fleeting before my eyes. The costume budget must have been amazing. Kim in ND, where spring has sprung, but that doesn't mean we won't get a blizzard yet. susannah eanes [60,129]CSuX:corded petticoat refs. Subject: H-COST: Corded Petticoat Refs. From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:27:47 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi Margo & all: Didn't get to search as much as I needed to last night re: corded petticoat colors, 1840s & 1850s refs, etc. in order to make a definitive answer; but I did find the following (all paraphrased): Corsets & Crinolines: 1850s -An English young lady comments to a friends how her laundress must think her "fast" for owning "two corded petticoats." This is in the same breath while describing the caged crinolines of another acquaintance. History of Underclothes: By the 1850s, petticoats were available in brilliant colors, especially scarlet. Petticoats are mentioned in the late 50s being described as "parti-coloured," which I assume must describe some sort of multi-colored fabric. All 1840s & 1850s underpetticoats were stated to be white, except for the outermost one, which might be embroidered elaborately, or even brightly coloured, or possess a coloured hem decoration or frill that showed when the skirts were lifted. Calico Chronicle (Betty Mills, Texas Tech Press): "By the 1850s, most women owned at least one red flannel petticoat." I found no references to corded petticoats being anything other than white. I found no references in this period to taffeta petticoats. I found refs to drill, starched cotton, linen, wool, and "longcloth," which is also wool. I did not get a chance to look again in The Workwoman's Guide; it's an earlier book, anyway (1839, 1840). Might mention petticoat colors, but I can't remember anything other than white from my previous reading. Overall observations from my reading last night: By the 1850s, corded petticoats by and large were falling by the wayside in favor of the crinoline, and the fact that wearing more did not increase the size of the bell at the hem of one's skirt; they would crush one another instead of holding out the skirts because of their weight. I could find no advertisements for corded petticoats in the 1850s, but plenty of ads for cages & crinolines. Also, I could NOT find anything which led me to believe red flannel, or any other colored fabric, might be used for a corded petticoat. As stated above, all corded petticoats in which color was mentioned, were white. This from culling all my early-mid diaries & journals (about 15), store advertisements, and a quick scan of my library. Hope this helps. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com snspies@aol.com[15,130]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: SNSpies@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 09:54:31 EDT -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Bronwyn asked- << I have a whole afternoon and evening in Vienna, Austria in August in between plane flights. Does anyone know of any costume or textile museums in Vienna that I could visit? Oh deary me, yes! Go to the Kunsthistorisches Museum at Burgring 5. They have all the coronation regalia of the old Holy Roman Emperors such as Roger II's 11th century Sicilian mantle which is stunning. Nancy gail decamp [23,131]CSuX:museums in vienna Subject: H-COST: Museums in Vienna From: Gail DeCamp Date: Wed, 7 Apr 99 10:38:03 -0700 -Poster: Gail DeCamp Depends what you want. For art, art, art and more art, go to the Kunsthistorisches. For spectacular examples of Imperial regalia-- clothing, embroidery, jewels, etc. etc, see the crown jewels collection. >I have a whole afternoon and evening in Vienna, Austria in August in >between plane flights. Does anyone know of any costume or textile museums >in Vienna that I could visit? > >Thanks for any info, > >Bronwyn "A journey of a thousand miles should not begin with a wet butt." -T. Kolar jean waddie [39,132]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: Jean Waddie Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 19:43:40 +0100 -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <370A80BD.E7993B7D@serv.net>, Merouda the True of Bornover writes > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >I'll stick me head on the block with ya. I believe many consider >"Elizabethan" to be Tudor. She *is* a Tudor. FWIW, Cynthia Trouble is, there's so much Elizabethan and so little Henry/Henry/Edward/Mary, us early Tudor types get our hopes up and then get disappointed again! Now, who can I confuse by calling very late 15th century "Tudor"? ;) Jean > >> (realizing I may have my neck in the guillotine for not making >> ***sure*** Tudor is the right word for "1560 to 1620"...:-) >> It's: >> Patterns of Fashion, The cut and construction on clothes for men and >> women c. 1560-1620. Janet Arnold 1985. ISBN 0 333 38284 6 The >> publisher of my copy is "M Papermac/DRAMA BOOK New York" but I'd do a >> search on ACSES or Bookfinder, someone else might be doing it now. >> >> Heather > >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > -- Jean Waddie lynn meyer [46,133]CSuX:clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: clothing sources? From: Lynn Meyer Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:51:02 -0700 -Poster: Lynn Meyer >From: Robin Netherton > >Let me take this ball and run with it. Yes, this is the period in which >national differences became apparent. But so did art styles, which >actually is a help when you're researching. Generally, for late 1500s and >1600s, each of the Western European cultures shone in a different medium. >Brasses are almost exclusively English. Flanders produced superb portraits >and other paintings. French costume is easiest to track through manuscript >art and tapestries, and then paintings in the 1500s. Yes, you can find >English manuscripts and paintings, and Flemish brasses and tapestries -- >but if you want a general overview, go to where the bulk of the sources >are. One of those really great ideas that seems so obvious once it's pointed out! Cool. Do you happen to know what areas of art would be good for Spain (at any century)? >And, when you're looking at artwork, be suspicious by nature of anything >worn by a saint, a goddess, or a historic queen. Often you'll find >incredible and interesting costumes on these people, but if you never see >the like on a *real* person, then it probably is at least partly the >artist's imagination. Best sources are donor portraits (within religious >paintings) and stand-alone portraits; illustrations of stories are often >fine if the person being illustrated is a regular noblewoman, not a saint, >goddess, queen, or supernatural figure. For non-noble dress, look at >labors of the months, genre paintings, crowd scenes, etc. I've heard this before and I'm curious about more detail. I haven't noticed anything really outrageous on a queen (or even a saint) in the Spanish paintings etc. I've seen so far, but they've mostly been in well-researched books devoted to costume, so presumably the authors weeded out these things. I can understand that they'd make up who-knows-what for saints (at least Biblical saints, or any other centuries-past figures) and goddesses and such. I'm mostly curious about what they'd imagine for queens, and why, and maybe if it was particularly common (or uncommon) for any particular country or time. Inquisitively, Halima susannah eanes [81,134]CSuX:corset survey: before/after? Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Survey: Before/After? From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 11:58:02 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi all, I have compiled the 8 responses I have received so far. It is heavily weighted towards the 1500s and mid 1800s. For a more representative view, it would be nice to have more 18th and early 20th c. responses. Age & size-wise, the responses vary nicely. I'll give it another week, and then forward the tabulations to the list. As I mentioned to each of the respondents, in case this wasn't clear in the original post (see below), I will only include numbers, no names or e-mails to protect identities. Susannah >From: "Susannah Eanes" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Corset Survey: Before/After? >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 11:11:04 PST > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > >Kind readers of the list, > >A conversation off-list got me curious about something, so I thought I >would try to compile a private survey based on modern women who are used >to corseting on a pretty regular basis --say at the very minimum, at >least three or more times a month for at least four to five or more >hours at a time. > >If you are interested in participating, please e-mail me privately with >the following information: > >Your age range --teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and older >Your time period --1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s >Your modern-day size range --Junior/Petite, Medium/Reg. Misses incl. >Tall, or Queen >Your build --small, medium, or large-boned >Your overall muscle tone --soft, medium, or firmly toned >Your before corseting waist measurement standing erect with good posture >but muscles relaxed (not holding that tummy in!) measured on bare skin >Your after corseting waist measurement standing, laced comfortably for >normal activities (not to get into that ball gown!) measured over the >corset > >I will compile the numbers I get and post the results. The premise is, >that smaller, more firmly toned people cannot corset down and compress >the flesh as much as larger people with softer flesh, so they end up >with less of a difference between their before and after corset >measurements than larger people, who can usually have greater >differences before and after corset measurement. >I forgot where I read this and wanted to try and see if it holds up in >practice. > >Thanks for your willingness to participate! > >Susannah Eanes >The Tailor's Measure > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William >Morris >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com jessica wilbur [29,135]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: "Jessica Wilbur" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:02:19 -0400 -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > In message <370A80BD.E7993B7D@serv.net>, Merouda the True of Bornover > writes > > > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > >I'll stick me head on the block with ya. I believe many consider > >"Elizabethan" to be Tudor. She *is* a Tudor. FWIW, Cynthia > > Trouble is, there's so much Elizabethan and so little > Henry/Henry/Edward/Mary, us early Tudor types get our hopes up and then > get disappointed again! Now, who can I confuse by calling very late > 15th century "Tudor"? ;) > > Jean I'm with you, Jean! My pipe-dream project is to do a study of early Tudor fashion, starting with Elizabeth of York and working my way through up to Bloody Mary, making a gown for each distinctive style, in order to fully understand the evolution thereof. Not that I'll ever have the time to do this, but I can dream! =) --Jessica susan carroll-clark [32,136]CSuX:clothing sources? Subject: Re: H-COST: clothing sources? From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 15:01:58 -0400 -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I can understand that they'd make up who-knows-what for saints >(at least Biblical saints, or any other centuries-past figures) >and goddesses and such. I'm mostly curious about what they'd >imagine for queens, and why, and maybe if it was particularly >common (or uncommon) for any particular country or time. I'll chime in here, having been to several of Robin's lectures. The classic example of this is the sideless surcote. If you took paintings at face value, you'd think sidelesses were being worn well into the 16th century. The fact is that they disappear in the scenes of regular people (that is, non-royalty) early in the fifteenth (if not before), being restricted after that to royal saints and queens. Some believe that the sideless continued on as a ceremonial garment. However, if you look particularly at the late examples, there are depictions of fabric doing things fabric couldn't possibly do and strange cuts and the like that lead one to believe that the artist could never have possibly *seen* a real sideless and was just working on the convention that a sideless was shorthand for "royal female saint" or "queen." If your queen or saint is wearing clothing whose cut you can confirm in contemporary depictions of regular people (even other nobles), you're probably OK. Susan margo anderson [17,137]CSuX:the sound of music Subject: Re: H-COST: The Sound of Music From: Margo Anderson Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 12:30:05 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Just to show that even a primary source can be corrupt: My mother in law grew up in a similarly affluent military family during WWII, although in Germany, not Austria. She says that this movie is an exact picture of what her childhood was like! Of course, when you do a little more research, you realize that my mother in law is, while sweet, a total whacko, who has managed to convince herself that growing up in Nazi Germany was just like a Rogers and Hammerstein musical. Isn't research fun? Margo susannah eanes [112,138]CSuX:heidi marsh s 1850 gown (was wrapper variations) Subject: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 13:01:29 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Some of my thoughts on the following --no flames here! >-Poster: LuAnnMason@aol.com > >I'm going to risk some flames, but here goes anyway.... I was very intrigued >by the patterns available from the Wisconsin State Historical Society, because >I know that the reproduction items from the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum are >first rate. But.... (you knew it was coming, right??? ;-) )" > >In a message dated 3/30/99 11:27:27 AM EST, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > ><< They have a > pretty Period Impressions day dress of 1845 which is very > simple. > >In my OWN experience, Period Impressions patterns give you JUST that--a >general "Impression" of the period. If that's what you are interested in, >that's just fine, BUT for people who want more than just a general look, to >whom the construction details make or break an outfit, Period Impressions is >NOT the way to go. They basically use and redesign modern patterns, using >modern cutting and tailoring techniques. Unfortunately, patternmaking has >altered drastically in nearly 150 years, and you WILL NOT achieve a true >period drape or look using these patterns. It's a physical impossibility. >Their armscyes are too large, their seams are in the wrong places, and their >patterns are NOT placed on the grain consistent with originals. > I will wholeheartedly agree with your description of Period Impressions patterns. They will not give you an accurate silhouette, even if you know how to make adjustments to patterns. They are frustrating to work with, and look --well --frumpy. Even the men's stuff. I tried, between six and eight years ago, several. >>> Heidi's Patterns LD-1-WD shows an 1859 work dress which is > basically an updated bed gown over a petticoat. >> > >I haven't tried this specific one, but once again, modern cutting techniques >were used on almost every pattern of Heidi's that I have purchased over the >past 20 years. You will NOT get a true period fit or look using these >patterns. > Welll.... I can't say I agree wholeheartedly here. I haven't used the above-referenced pattern, so I can't speak to that. I have only used ONE Heidi Marsh pattern, the Constance Dress. It is a copy of an original work gown from California c. 1850 or so, and it is the best and most representative of this type of work gown available that I have found. I have measured and photographed at least five extant gowns from different parts of the US that are almost identical to the Constance Dress. Is it possible that she got one right? I have made this gown in every size, from 6 to 46, that it is available in. It is one of the most popular gowns I make. The gown looks nice whether you are UltraQueensize or miniscule. It is a front-button gathered bodice with a waist inset piece onto which a cartridge-pleated skirt is set. I have made it in calicoes, homespun cottons, solid wool/linen, & lightweight wool. The shoulderline drops correctly, the waist inset is flattering and, above all, the dress is Comfortable to Wear! I call it my "sweatsuit," and I wear it with two lightweight petticoats & sensible stays. It is the one thing I come home & crawl into when I've had a bad day. I love it. Now, I'll stop & let someone else speak... >Finally, if anyone on this list feels like I'm being overly critical and/or >picky, and is still interested in using Period Impressions or Heidi Marsh >patterns, please e-mail me privately. I have a whole stash, and I'll let >them go CHEAP. I won't use them, and won't pass them on to folks in my area >because they aren't historically accurate. They're gathering dust and taking >up room, and I don't want them. I think I have 4 or 5 ladies patterns, and >another 8 or 10 men's patterns. > >LuAnn in Washington State > LuAnn, I wasn't being critical. I have heard that Heidi's other patterns are difficult to use and often the pieces do not fit. I just had to take up for my favorite gown! If you want to e-mail me privately, please do. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com jean waddie [42,139]CSuX:arnold s tudor(?) book Subject: Re: H-COST: Arnold's Tudor(?) book From: Jean Waddie Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 20:50:51 +0100 -Poster: Jean Waddie In message , Jessica Wilbur writes > >-Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > >> >> -Poster: Jean Waddie >> >> In message <370A80BD.E7993B7D@serv.net>, Merouda the True of Bornover >> writes >> > >> >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover >> > >> >I'll stick me head on the block with ya. I believe many consider >> >"Elizabethan" to be Tudor. She *is* a Tudor. FWIW, Cynthia >> >> Trouble is, there's so much Elizabethan and so little >> Henry/Henry/Edward/Mary, us early Tudor types get our hopes up and then >> get disappointed again! Now, who can I confuse by calling very late >> 15th century "Tudor"? ;) >> >> Jean > >I'm with you, Jean! My pipe-dream project is to do a study of early Tudor >fashion, starting >with Elizabeth of York and working my way through up to Bloody Mary, making a >gown for >each distinctive style, in order to fully understand the evolution thereof. Not >that I'll ever >have the time to do this, but I can dream! =) > >--Jessica Yo! I'll do the hats! (when I give up my job, my husband, eating, cleaning, etc :-)) -- Jean Waddie heather [8,140]CSuX:tapestry book? Subject: H-COST: tapestry book? From: heather Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 14:58:41 -0700 -Poster: heather > Of course! *smacks head* How could I forget tapestries?! I've just > pored over an entire book of them looking at c1500 clothing....*grin* What book is this?? Sounds fascinating. Heather margo anderson [10,141]CSuX:fireman s shirt? Subject: H-COST: Fireman's shirt? From: Margo Anderson Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:48:27 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson What is the earlest date for those bib-fronted western shirts sometime's called "fireman's shirts"? Margo luannmason@aol.com[21,142]CSuX:heidi marsh s 1850 gown (was wrapper variations) Subject: Re: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) From: LuAnnMason@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 17:39:59 EDT -Poster: LuAnnMason@aol.com In a message dated 4/7/99 3:05:45 PM EST, oh_susannah@hotmail.com writes: << I have measured and photographed at least five extant gowns from different parts of the US that are almost identical to the Constance Dress. Is it possible that she got one right? I have made this gown in every size, from 6 to 46, that it is available in. It is one of the most popular gowns I make. >> Ahhh--I have not tried THIS particular Heidi Marsh pattern. She does a men's shirt that goes together like a dream, and other stuff that I wouldn't use to kindle the fire. I'll have to give the Constance dress a try! :-) Thanks for the clarification--guess I swung my tarred brush a bit too wide on that one! ;-) LuAnn Mason Vancouver, WA hilary doda [23,143]CSuX:clothing sources Subject: H-COST: re: clothing sources From: Hilary Doda Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 18:12:09 -0400 -Poster: Hilary Doda >I can understand that they'd make up who-knows-what for saints >(at least Biblical saints, or any other centuries-past figures) >and goddesses and such. I'm mostly curious about what they'd >imagine for queens, and why, and maybe if it was particularly >common (or uncommon) for any particular country or time. Well, if you take a look at the "Rainbow Portrait" of Queen Elizabeth, there are a number of very strange things. Her neckline is very 17th century, but even beyond that, the ~whatever-it-is~ that she's wearing on her head is definitely not your usual Elizabethan hat. Hilary Doda/Joane Steward ********************************************** "Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." - Steph Brochu the purple elephant [29,144]CSuX:tapestry book? Subject: Re: H-COST: tapestry book? From: The Purple Elephant Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:35:16 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, heather wrote: > > -Poster: heather > > > Of course! *smacks head* How could I forget tapestries?! I've just > pored over an entire book of them looking at c1500 clothing....*grin* > > What book is this?? Sounds fascinating. Argh! It was a French book, can't recall the title (took it back to the library the other day. Hang on I'll check the catalogue quickly... Aha! "Chefs-D'Oeuvre de la Tapisserie du XIVe au XVIe Siecle" No more info is listed in the catalog, but I think it was a museum publication. It does have a few tapestries from earlier and later but most of them date c1500. Most of the piccies are black and white, but they have quite a few colour plates and lots of close-ups that cause you to dribble on the page and say 'How the hell did they make these things so detailed?' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ diana h [32,145]CSuX:sacramento area costume guild (to be) Subject: H-COST: Sacramento Area Costume Guild (to be) From: Diana H Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 17:30:04 -0700 -Poster: Diana H Dear Sandy, Thanks for the info on how to start a chapter of the International Costumer's Guild! I was looking at the web page and found out that to start a chapter all you need a little dedication, an organizer, and six people to sign the petition to form the group. I was wondering if people in the Greater Sacramento area were interested in this? This includes Davis, of course (I know there are a few of you on the list who live out there.....) Not that I am volunteering myself to organize everything, but I will certainly help out because it would be nice to get together with other costumers and chat about this and that. So if you are interested, please respond to my e-mail and I will try to compose a list of us and maybe get things off the ground. Thanks for the bandwidth! Diana from Roseville, CA -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" susan fatemi [34,146]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: Susan Fatemi Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 18:25:59 -0700 -Poster: Susan Fatemi SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com > > Bronwyn asked- > > << I have a whole afternoon and evening in Vienna, Austria in August in > between plane flights. Does anyone know of any costume or textile museums > in Vienna that I could visit? > > Oh deary me, yes! Go to the Kunsthistorisches Museum at Burgring 5. They > have all the coronation regalia of the old Holy Roman Emperors such as Roger > II's 11th century Sicilian mantle which is stunning. > Nitpicking, or possibly an interesting sidebar. If Roger's mantle is the one I'm thinking of, it is a Mamluk piece, probably made in Egypt or Syria. It's red and gold and has lions, a palm tree, and some other animal. Susan F. Might there be some kind of museum in Vienna that would showcase the work of the Wienner Werkstatte?? Active from about the turn of the century up to WWII, I believe. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf dietmar [32,147]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: Dietmar Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 00:32:37 +0000 -Poster: Dietmar Greetings all, > Nitpicking, or possibly an interesting sidebar. If Roger's mantle > is the one I'm thinking of, it is a Mamluk piece, probably made > in Egypt or Syria. It's red and gold and has lions, a palm tree, > and some other animal. That's the one. It's a semicircle with a tree of life up the center and a lion on top of a camel reflected on either side. The ground is red silk embroidered with gold thread and crusted with gold filigree, precious stones and pearls. The Cufic inscription in Arabic around the hem states that the robe was made in 1133/4 by Arab artists for Roger II of Sicily. > Might there be some kind of museum in Vienna that would showcase > the work of the Wienner Werkstatte?? Active from about the turn of > the century up to WWII, I believe. I might be confusing them with the Blaue Reiter, but they were undoubtedly shut down by the Nazis in the early 30's. I don't know of a museum in Vienna, but you'd undoubtedly find a lot of their work in the Neue Pinakothek in Munich. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." aleed [8,148]CSuX:corded petticoat instructions Subject: H-COST: Corded Petticoat Instructions From: aleed Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:51:03 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: aleed I wanted to thank the person who posted the URL for the bbs that had the message on making a corded petticoat, and also to let y'all know that I've put the instructions up on a webpage of their own at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/cordpett.html merlyncc@aol.com[26,149]CSuX:museums in vienna Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna From: Merlyncc@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:49:20 EDT -Poster: Merlyncc@aol.com In a message dated 4/7/99 1:28:31 PM Central Daylight Time, gdecamp@best.com writes: > For art, art, art and more art, go to the > Kunsthistorisches. For spectacular examples of Imperial regalia-- > clothing, embroidery, jewels, etc. etc, see the crown jewels collection. > I'd like to add my two cents worth - do not miss the crown jewels collection! And allow several hours - they ran me out five minutes after closing time, and I'd go again. It is much more than jewels. You'll drool over the christening gowns encrusted in pearls and see silk/gold embroidery on liturgical garments so fine it may change your mind about a historical basis for using gold lame (though probably not!) It's in a building to the side at the Imperial Palace (Hofburg.) If you're interested in men's clothing, I'm told the Military Museum is great for 18th-19th century. Our group split, and I chose the Kunsthistorisches. Take a sketchbook to the K, and be sure to wander the side galleries as well. Wish I could go back! Priscilla Schmitz hope greenberg [12,150]CSuX:alcega Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega From: Hope Greenberg Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:39:31 -0500 -Poster: Hope Greenberg Marsha McLean wrote: > loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: etc. Thanks! (Or maybe I should say "Oh No!!!") You just moved it from my "should buy" to my "must buy" list. - Hope snspies@aol.com[31,151]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: SNSpies@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:43:31 EDT -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Hello, Susan. << Nitpicking, or possibly an interesting sidebar. If Roger's mantle is the one I'm thinking of, it is a Mamluk piece, probably made in Egypt or Syria. It's red and gold and has lions, a palm tree, and some other animal. Yes, that is the mantle. All the references I have on it, including those from the Kunsthistorisches Museum, indicate that the mantle was made in the workshops in Palermo which Roger started after his conquest of Sicily. The workmanship is definitely Islamic (and stunningly beautiful it is, too). Roger pulled many many weavers and other artisans to Palermo from the eastern Mediterranean. What is very interesting, to me at least, is that brocaded tabletwoven band around the bottom. Sicily was apparently the place were this northern European technique went east, one of the very few textile techniques to not go from east to west. <> I just looked through "The Cambridge Guide to the Museums of Europe". Lots of great museums in Vienna, but I didn't see any reference to the Wienner Werkstatte specifically. May I suggest that you find the Austrian Embassy on-line and make inquiries through them? Good luck! Nancy snowfire@mail.snet.net[15,152]CSuX:alcega Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 11:52:30 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net >Marsha McLean wrote: >Re: the Alcega book >> It has patterns for many styles of men'sand women's dress: round gowns, >> loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: >etc. M'lady, could you please post the details on this book? And also, I wonder, what is the time-span the patterns are drawn from? Elysant de Holtham susannah eanes [41,153]CSuX:h cost: seamstresses & buttonholes Subject: H-COST: Re: H COST: seamstresses & buttonholes From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 10:45:55 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >>In the books, it was Laura, not Mary, who worked in town by doing piecework >>sewing. As I recall, she worked one summer, mostly making buttonholes at a >>dry goods store > >Laura Ingalls Wilder (the author, not her character) helped support her >family with sewing when she wasn't teaching school. After her marriage, she >helped raise the money needed to move and buy their farm by sewing. She was >very proud of having once made sixty shirt buttonholes in one hour. My mind >boggles at the idea of doing a handworked buttonhole in one minute, (or at >all, but that's me) but her daughter says she did do it. > >Margo Anderson > Late reading old mail... this was so interesting! I have to brag on my better half a bit. With about a year's worth of practice, he has learned to do wonderful handworked buttonholes that mimic exactly those on 18th c. tailored mens' frock coats. He uses various weights of pearl cotton, silk twist, or linen thread, whatever is called for by the garment. He can do 20 tightly embroidered buttonholes, approx. 1 1/2" to 2" long, in about two hours. Yes! Susannah Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com franchesca havas [56,154]CSuX:alcega Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:56:25 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Pine To: Franchesca Havas Date: Monday, April 05, 1999 9:37 AM Subject: Re: book inquiry :You can order the book, "Libro de Geometria, Pratica y Traca" by Juan de Alcega (Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589) via phone, fax, email, mail, or the order form on :our web site. It is $40.00 and should be in our warehouse within the week. ISBN but it is 0-89676-234-3. : :Thanks for your interest. : :Ralph Pine :Quite Specific Media Group Ltd., 260 Fifth Ave., New York, NY 10001. (212) :725-5377 v. (212) 725-8506 f. www.quitespecificmedia.com. Imprints: Drama :Publishers, Costume & Fashion Press, By Design Press, Jade Rabbit, :EntertainmentPro :rpine@quitespecificmedia.com : Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: snowfire@mail.snet.net To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 10:54 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega : :-Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net : : :>Marsha McLean wrote: :>Re: the Alcega book :>> It has patterns for many styles of men'sand women's dress: round gowns, :>> loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: :>etc. : :M'lady, could you please post the details on this book? And also, I wonder, :what is the time-span the patterns are drawn from? : :Elysant de Holtham : margo anderson [17,155]CSuX:h cost: seamstresses & buttonholes Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H COST: seamstresses & buttonholes From: Margo Anderson Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:04:37 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson A >I have to brag on my better half a bit. With about a year's worth of >practice, he has learned to do wonderful handworked buttonholes that >mimic exactly those on 18th c. tailored mens' frock coats. He uses >various weights of pearl cotton, silk twist, or linen thread, >whatever is called for by the garment. He can do 20 tightly >embroidered buttonholes, approx. 1 1/2" to 2" long, in about two >hours. Wow! He's a keeper, all right! Margo donna kenton [21,156]CSuX:nyc museums Subject: H-COST: NYC Museums From: Donna Kenton Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 14:38:35 -0400 -Poster: Donna Kenton If memory serves, this was recently discussed, and I don't want to bog down the list with it again. However, it looks like I'm going to have a full week in NYC to look at costuming and needlework. Oh, I'm a happy camper! If someone can kindly tell me how I can find the old posts on NYC museums and their costuming/needlework, I'd be most appreciative. Or, if you have a particular museum you'd recommend, please send the info to me. The more research I get done before I go, the more I can get accomplished in that week. Thanks! Donna Kenton donna@dabbler.com margo anderson [20,157]CSuX:*sigh* need a web site Subject: Re: H-COST: *sigh* Need a web site From: Margo Anderson Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:21:09 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson At 03:18 PM 4/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Brandy Dickson" > >I am looking for the farthingales webpage that sells corset and boning >supplies. Farthingales is at: www.farthingales.on.ca/ If you're in the US, this URL is for a currency converter that will help you figure out the prices: http://www.xe.net/currency/ Have fun! Margo j,k,s&a baird [22,158]CSuX:*sigh* need a web site Subject: Re: H-COST: *sigh* Need a web site From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 18:02:05 -0500 -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" http://www.farthingales.on.ca phone 519-275-2374 At 03:18 PM 4/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Brandy Dickson" > >I am looking for the farthingales webpage that sells corset and boning >supplies. I recall that the list had put it up a while ago, but I can't >find it in my old postings... I was wondering if anyone had the url, 'cause >my attempts have failed... > >Thanks, >Brandy Dickson > >P.S. If you want to e-mail me privately, that's fine. > > marsha mclean [25,159]CSuX:h-costume-digest v4 #264 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #264 From: Marsha McLean Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 20:56:15 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Marsha McLean >- -Poster: Hope Greenberg > >Marsha McLean wrote: >Re: the Alcega book >> It has patterns for many styles of men'sand women's dress: round gowns, >> loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: >etc. > >Thanks! (Or maybe I should say "Oh No!!!") You just moved it from my >"should buy" to my "must buy" list. > >- - Hope > _______________________________ So I should hope! _ Marsha McLean "Be yourself - it's who you do best" tigershado@aol.com[12,160]CSuX:speaking of art books... Subject: H-COST: Speaking of art books... From: Tigershado@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 21:11:04 EDT -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com I just saw a book on Hans Holbein over on eBay. It's listed as a 1999 advance review copy with 268 illustrations. Sounded interesting, but I'm between jobs so I don't dare bid on it. In case anyone's interested here's the URL. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=86061321 Barbara Corley tigershado@aol.com susan fatemi [29,161]CSuX:museums in vienna? Subject: Re: H-COST: Museums in Vienna? From: Susan Fatemi Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 19:16:37 -0700 -Poster: Susan Fatemi SNSpies@aol.com wrote: > > I just looked through "The Cambridge Guide to the Museums of Europe". Lots > of great museums in Vienna, but I didn't see any reference to the Wienner > Werkstatte specifically. May I suggest that you find the Austrian Embassy > on-line and make inquiries through them? Good luck! > > Nancy Thanks, Nancy, but unfortunately I'm not the one going to Vienna! Just offering a suggestion. The Werkstatte (which means workshop, I think) was the Viennese equivalent of the Arts & Crafts movement and wanted to bring the beauty of good design to every aspect of daily life. They designed furniture and upholstery fabric, tea kettles and china. But most importantly they designed *clothing* and *shoes*. Gustav Klimt even designed a dress or two. There have been several books about the workshop, but not enough pictures of clothes. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf wanda pease [136,162]CSuX:alcega info and reply to snowfire Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega info and reply to Snowfire From: "Wanda Pease" Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 22:11:36 -0700 -Poster: "Wanda Pease" Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589 Translated and reproduced from the Spanish original (first published in this year, so _everything_ in the facsimile is "period" by definition. The publication date gives you a hint at to what "period" the patterns are from), Juan de Alcega. Facsimile (means exact duplicate, in this case photographic), with translation by Jean Pain & Cecilia Bainton, Introduction and notes by J.L. Nevinson; Ruth Bean, Carlton, Bedford Originally published as _Libero de Geometria practica y traca, etc. in the city of Madrid (Spain).The facsimile of the original volume is contained in the first 90 pages or so. The last 66 pages consist of the patterns reproduced exactly (4 to a page) with English translations of Senor Alcega's notes, and conversion tables. It is a pattern book: "Dealing with all that concerns the profession of Tailor, in order to know how much woolen cloth, silk or other material will be needed to make many kinds of clothes both for men and for women; and many other secret and curious facts concerning this Art. Compiled by Juan de Alcega of the Province of Guipuzcoa and of the house of Alcega. Dedicated to the most illustrious Senor Tejada, Bachelor of Arts, of the Supreme Council of our lord the King. Seen, examined and licensed. Printed in Madrid at the house of Guillermo Drouy Printer of books in the year 1589" (original foreword) (What a Tailor in Spain, practicing his craft in the year 1589, would/should know.) "The republication of this work after nearly 400 years, though absorbing, has been neither swift nor easy. The initial plan to produce a straight facsimile reprint was soon expanded by the addition of a translation aimed primarily at the costume maker but, because of the obscurity of many of the old Spanish terms and Alcega's sometimes sketchy instructions, several difficult textual problems arose. The solutions required much original research and sustained detective work, both here (i.e. England) and abroad, before a text making practical sense could be produced and backed by authoritative notes." This edition could not have been produced without the help of the Victoria and Albert Museum, London, who permitted the reproduction of their extremely rare copy of the book. " (Ruth Bean's Foreword to the Facsimile) I count 79 original patterns in all (all of which are reproduced in the second, translated section of this edition of the book. They range from mens and women's doublets of silk and wool, to cloaks (plain, Herreruelo, Bohemian, Balandran, christening and Clerical in silk, cloth, and felt), jerkins, Christian and Moorish cassocks, Bishop's Mantle and amice, cloth and "Florentine cloth rash), Chapter mantle for Knight Commanders of the Order of St. John, soutanes,Turkish and Spanish morning gowns of silk and cloth, Spanish and Roman gowns of silk and cloth, Learned mens gowns, Saddle trappings for jousting, Burnous for the game of canes, skirts (narrow and large) Kirtles for children, women, fat women, with low cut bodice, two kirtles of cloth rash cut together, Skirt and bodice with puffed sleeves, Laced mourning coats for women, Silk farthingale for a woman, baize gown for a girl, Gowns of silk and cloth for a woman, Mantles of silk, kersey, and cloth for women and girls, War Banner of taffeta. Each pattern comes with a short explanatory paragraph by the author, translated in the second section. These are not Simplicity directions. The patterns worked wonderfully for me once I figured out what in the world was going on. Some pieces are not marked as to what they are. Several do not look anything like what we expect, with back collar pieces cut in one with the back piece, curved shoulder seams, lack of a back armscye on full backed pieces. Sleeves are not set in the modern manner, the seams come off the inside of the arm rather than at the arm pit. Skill working with modern patterns may actually be a liability. The patterns do seem to be to scale. The book does not include things a Tailor would not make, i.e. corsets, hose, and surprisingly slops, netherhose, whatever. getting the most out of every piece of fabric that came his way, and the cutting diagrams will give you a feel for the way earlier costumes were cut. Also, this book is unlikely to be available for long. It appears to be a private printing, for a small audience (I know, we may not be mighty in numbers, but our hearts are pure!). Before this came up I was ready to Xerox a copy for a friend because it was unobtainable even though book searchers. I suspect this will be the case again in a year! Regina Romsey, OL, OP, and old used Viscountess :You can order the book, "Libro de Geometria, Pratica y Traca" by Juan de Alcega (Tailor's Pattern Book, 1589) via phone, fax, email, mail, or the order form on :our web site. It is $40.00 and should be in our warehouse within the week. ISBN but it is 0-89676-234-3. : :Thanks for your interest. : :Ralph Pine :Quite Specific Media Group Ltd., 260 Fifth Ave., New York, NY 10001. (212) :725-5377 v. (212) 725-8506 f. www.quitespecificmedia.com. Imprints: Drama :Publishers, Costume & Fashion Press, By Design Press, Jade Rabbit, :EntertainmentPro -----Original Message----- From: snowfire@mail.snet.net To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, April 08, 1999 8:52 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega > >-Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net > > >>Marsha McLean wrote: >>Re: the Alcega book >>> It has patterns for many styles of men'sand women's dress: round gowns, >>> loose gowns, kirtles, petticoats, mourning gowns, many many things, mens: >>etc. > >M'lady, could you please post the details on this book? And also, I wonder, >what is the time-span the patterns are drawn from? > >Elysant de Holtham > > griffinhold@usa.net[19,163]CSuX:vienna Subject: H-COST: Vienna From: griffinhold@usa.net Date: 8 Apr 99 23:33:52 MDT -Poster: griffinhold@usa.net Hello; For the person with time in Vienna, you should know that the HRE garments as well as the Golden Fleece vestments are in the Treasury, not the Kunsthistoriches. Same area, just different building and separate entrance price. Also, there was a display of late 1800's and 1900's clothing at the Museum of the City of Vienna as of Christmas time when I was there. Hope this helps and have a wonderful time! Lyn Gillespie Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 mary denise smith [14,164]CSuX:alcega info Subject: Re: H-COST: Alcega info From: Mary Denise Smith Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 07:37:26 -0600 -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Hello List, Please note that English/European purchasers can get the Alcega book on amazon.co.uk Search under "Alcega". Hope this helps, Mary Denise Smith sarah toney [15,165]CSuX:question... Subject: H-COST: Question... From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 09:41:03 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" Is there any way to "cheat" on button holes? My machine is an old upholstery machine, so I have to do button holes by zig zagging and hoping it hits right. Is there a guide sold or a cheat or anything? The piece I am doing now is an order for someone and is made out of silk essence, so I really don't want to screw up the button holes since pulling stitches out of silk essence destroys the fabric. Thanks! Sarah andrea gideon [19,166]CSuX:question... Subject: Re: H-COST: Question... From: "Andrea Gideon" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 10:06:16 -0700 -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >-Poster: "Sarah Toney" > >Is there any way to "cheat" on button holes? My machine is an old >upholstery machine, so I have to do button holes by zig zagging and hoping >it hits right. Is there a guide sold or a cheat or anything? There is a great guide sold, usually in the notions section of your fabric store. It's kind of like tape that has markings for the standard button sizes in different colors. It easily comes off most of the fabrics I have tried. Andrea susannah eanes [33,167]CSuX:fireman s shirt? Subject: Re: H-COST: Fireman's shirt? From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 08:19:43 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I have seen these double-buttoned bib front shirts in photographs of Confederate soldiers during the war; can't recall right now what year but I will look again tonight. I believe they were initially issued for military use. Will check carefully on that though. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris >From: Margo Anderson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Fireman's shirt? >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 13:48:27 -0800 (PST) > > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >What is the earlest date for those bib-fronted western shirts sometime's >called "fireman's shirts"? > >Margo > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com susannah eanes [76,168]CSuX:1880s skirt drapery Subject: Re: H-COST: 1880s skirt drapery From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 11:39:26 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Did you get an answer for this? Because I did not see your prior post, I am not certain of the source for your pattern. If it is a late 1880s Harpers Bazar or similar magazine, I have quite a few of these originals, including the original engraved illustrations and the cursory directions. I have even made a bodice, a child's dress, and a man's vest from the patterns. I also have a wonderful misses' hunting/shooting outfit that I would love to attempt, but haven't had the time just yet. >From your post below, I would think that the drapery is at half- scale. All of my copies are also at half scale. 8 - 10 yards is about average for skirt drapery in the 1880s, so 7 meters is not out of the question. The x's usually marked the places to fold the dots to. Assymetrically draped fashions abound in the 1880s. E-mail me back if you think I can help. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris >From: Pompadour >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: 1880s skirt drapery >Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:47:02 +0000 > > >-Poster: Pompadour > >hi list, > >i sent this earlier but didn't get my more pressing questions answered, so i'm >trying again... > >i have only a sketch of the drapery pattern. according to it,  it's about a >metre wide and 3.5 metres long and completely asymmetric. am i looking at half >of the pattern, or is the drapery really supposed to be asymmetric - and 7 >(seven!) metres long? > >as for the draping technique: i honly have a numberof little x'es and dots to >mark the folds. does anybody on this list know enough about draperies to >interpret it and maybe even imagine what the finished drapery would look like? >the illustration of the finished  garment is missing as well. >(there was a reply that the pattern was only a guideline - well, ok, but i >don't even know how to use the guideline. because i don't know where it >leads.) > > >thanks in advance.... >yo > > > >marquise_de_pompadour@gmx.net - www.costumegallery.com/pompadour/ > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com sterling ranne [11,169]CSuX:fabric search engine... Subject: H-COST: Fabric Search Engine... From: "Sterling Ranne" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 14:03:24 -0500 -Poster: "Sterling Ranne" Once upon a time someone posted a link to a fabric search engine. I thought I had saved the link but can't find it now. Tried a couple of things in Yahoo and still can't find it. Could someone please send me the link? Thanx Sterling heather [14,170]CSuX:water-spotted silk s.o.s! Subject: H-COST: Water-spotted silk s.o.s! From: heather Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 14:32:49 -0700 -Poster: heather ('Scuse crossposting, please) I have a shiny-ish silk Japanese haori (jacket) that got water spots on it when I steam ironed it and the iron "spit up" - I almost had it to someone when they noticed the spotting and pointed it out to me (I hadn't realized it, but was obvious if you look at it from the right direction.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Heather hilary doda [15,171]CSuX:silk floss Subject: H-COST: Silk floss From: Hilary Doda Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:34:38 -0400 -Poster: Hilary Doda Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time finding anything suitable in Montreal. Joane Steward. ********************************************** "Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." - Steph Brochu frank&tracy thallas jr [26,172]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 99 13:54:17 PDT -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Just off-hand, I got some Madeira silk floss from Nancy's Notions; don't have the address handy, alas, but a quick web-search for the name will get you there, and you can order on-line as well as request a catalog. I think it was .99 cents US per 4yard, 4-strand package. Liadain > Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk > embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on > a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time > finding anything suitable in Montreal. > > Joane Steward. > > ********************************************** > > "Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." > - Steph Brochu > margo anderson [18,173]CSuX:water-spotted silk s.o.s! Subject: Re: H-COST: Water-spotted silk s.o.s! From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:02:27 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I have a shiny-ish silk Japanese haori (jacket) that got water spots on >it when I steam ironed it and the iron "spit up" - I almost had it to >someone when they noticed the spotting and pointed it out to me (I >hadn't realized it, but was obvious if you look at it from the right >direction.) Any suggestions? > If the copnstruction is such that you can wash it, that would be your best bet. It might change the appearance of the garment slightly in terms of color and sheen, but it's better than spots. Margo sarah toney [24,174]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:08:47 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" If I recall, DMC sells silk floss in several colors. I'm not sure where they are, but craft stores sometimes have it, and I'm sure a quick search of the internet will turn them up. Sarah >Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk >embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on >a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time >finding anything suitable in Montreal. > >Joane Steward. > >********************************************** > >"Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." > - Steph Brochu > snspies@aol.com[102,175]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: SNSpies@aol.com Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 16:08:47 EDT -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com --part1_4cf80660.243fb84f_boundary << Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? >> Try some of these mail-order companies. Good luck. Nancy --part1_4cf80660.243fb84f_boundary SUGGESTED LIST OF SUPPLIERS 1. Aurora Silk, 5806 North Vancouver Avenue, Portland, OR 97217 (503) 286= -4149 - silk threads 2. Beggar=92s Lace, P.O. Box 481223, Denver, CO 80248 (303) 722-5557 lace= lady@rmii.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 3. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 - silk, l= inen, and cotton threads 4. Books in Transit, 2830 Case Way, Turlock, CA 95382 (209) 632-6984 - out= -of-print books 5. Carolina Homespun, 190 Eastridge Rd., Ridgeway, VA 24148 (800) 450-7786= homespun@kimbanet.com - tablets,=20 =09shuttles, belt tablet-weaving holder, looms, warping pegs, books 6. Daisy Chain, P.O. Box 1258, Parkersburg, WV 26102 (304) 428-9500 - silk= , metallic, real gold and silver threads 7. Earth Guild, 33 Haywood Street, Asheville, NC 28801 (800) 327-8448 inf= orm@earthguild.com or =09catalog.earthguild.com - square cardboard tablets, = belt shuttles, books, linen, cotton, and wool threads 8. Fiber Hut, 2316 Crestwood Rd., SE, Calgary, Alberta T2C 0C6 Canada (403= ) 279-2658 - square cardboard tablets,=20 =09books, silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads 9. Fibrecrafts, Style Cottage, Lower Eashing, Godalming, Surrey GU7 2QD Eng= land (48) 342-1853) - square cardboard=20 =09tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, books 10. Halcyon Yarns, 12 School Street, Bath, ME 04530 (800) 341-0282 - squar= e cardboard tablets, warping pegs, books,=20 =09silk, linen, cotton, wool, and metallic threads 11. Handweavers Studio and Gallery, 29 Haroldstone Road, London E17 7AN Eng= land (81) 521-2281 handweaversstudio@msn.com - square and =09hexagonal card= board tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles, silk, linen, cotton, wool= , and metallic threads 12. Hedgehog Handworks, P.O. Box 45384, Westchester, CA 90045 (888) 670-60= 40 - silk, linen, cotton, metallic threads 13. Linda Hendrickson, 140 SE 39th Avenue, Portland, OR 97214 (503) 239-50= 16 lindahendrickson@cnnw.net -=20 =09square cardboard tablets, shuttles, kits, books, video 14. Heritage Looms, Route 6, Box 731-E, Alvin, TX 77511 (409) 925-4161 - ta= bletop looms, square cardboard tablets 15. Frank Herring & Sons, 27 High West Street, Dorchester, Dorset DT1 1UP En= gland (30) 524-4449 - square=20 =09plastic tablets, warping pegs with clamps, shuttles 16. Howell=92s Weaving Emporium, 4832 Salmon Drive, Paradise, CA 95969 (503= ) 877-4539 - tabletop looms, shuttles 17. Klotz Country Crafts, 908 E. Eloika Rd., Deer Park, WA 99006 (888) 447= -7675 - card weaver=92s surf-board loom 18 LACIS, 3163 Adeline Street, Berkeley, CA 94703 (510) 843-7178 staff@lac= is.com - silk, linen, cotton, and metallic=20 =09threads, including G=FCtermann silks and color card 19 Lou=EBt, P.O. Box 267, Ogdensburg, NY 13669 (613) 925-4502 - square wood= en tablets 20. Laura Morgan, 1633 Stoney Creek Drive, Charlottesville, VA 22902 (804) = 984-0537 - handmade wooden tablets 21. Needle Arts, Inc., 2211 Monroe, Dearborn, MI 48124 (313) 278-6266 - sil= k, linen, cotton, metallic, real gold threads 22. Nordic Needle, 1314 Gateway Drive, Fargo, ND 58103 (800) 433-4321 needl= e@corpcomm.com - silk, cotton, and=20 =09metallic threads 23. Bob Patterson, P.O. Box 424, Orinda, CA 94563 (925) 943-5243 Bob@threa= dshop.com, www.threadshop.com - silk, linen, cotton threads 24. Robin and Russ Handweavers, 533 North Adams Street, McMinnville, OR 9712= 8 (800) 932-8391 =09robin&russ@onlinemac.com - square and hexagonal cardboa= rd tablets. shuttles, books, videos 25. The Silk Tree, 20297 Stanton Ave., Maple Ridge, BC V2X 9A5 Canada (604= )465-9816 aurum@axionet.com -=20 =09silk threads 26. Otfried Staudigel, H=F6ppnerstrasse 108, D - 47809 Krefeld, Germany - fl= oor-standing looms 27. Textile Reproductions, Box 48, West Chesterfield, MA 01084 (413) 296-44= 37 - silk, linen, cotton, and wool threads=20 =09(early vegetable dyes used) 28. Things Japanese, 9805 NE 116th Street, Suite 7160, Kirkland, WA 98034 (= 206) 821-2287 - silk and metallic threads 29. Treenway Crafts, 725 Caledonia Avenue, Victoria, BC V8T 1E4 Canada (604= ) 383-1661 treenway@coastnet.com -=20 =09silk threads 30. Unicorn Books and Crafts, 1338 Ross Street, Petaluma, CA 94954 (800) 28= 9-9276 - square cardboard tablets, belt=20 =09shuttles, belt tablet weaving holder, books, videos 31. The Weaving Works, 4717 Brooklyn Ave., NE, Seattle, WA 98105 (206) 524-= 1221 - square cardboard tablets, =09shuttles, warping pegs, belt tablet weav= ing holder, books, videos 32. WEBS, P.O. Box 147, Northampton, MA 01061-0147 (413) 584-2225 webs@yar= n.com - silk threads 33. Yarn Barn, P.O. Box 334, Lawrence, KS 66044 (800) 468-0035 - square car= dboard tablets, shuttles, warping pegs, books --part1_4cf80660.243fb84f_boundary-- deborah von seggern [19,176]CSuX:silk floss Subject: RE: H-COST: Silk floss From: "Deborah von Seggern" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:09:29 -0700 -Poster: "Deborah von Seggern" You might also try Things Japanese. They specialize in silk threads and silk dye. Here is the contact info: (425) 821-2287 Deb in Redmond, WA (soon to be Mountlake Terrace) > -----Original Message----- > > Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk > > embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have > information on > > a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time > > finding anything suitable in Montreal. > > > > Joane Steward. gia gavino-gattshall [41,177]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:28:13 -0700 -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Threadneedlestreet. They have a web page and you can order long distance a couple of different ways. The URL is: http://www.threadneedlestreet.com I've not ordered from them, but I hear that their stock of merchandise is yummy enough to require a drooling bib. Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Hilary Doda To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 12:48 PM Subject: H-COST: Silk floss > >-Poster: Hilary Doda > >Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk >embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on >a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time >finding anything suitable in Montreal. > >Joane Steward. > >********************************************** > >"Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." > - Steph Brochu > margo anderson [23,178]CSuX:early levi s Subject: H-COST: H-cost: Early Levi's From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 13:43:41 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson I've been researching early Levi's, and I've found a lot of information on the Web. One of the most interesting sites is Hamilton Dry Goods at: http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/old73s.html They actually own a pair of 1870's Levi's, which they have taken a pattern from. they make replicas, to which they will make the necessary alterations (no rivets and no back pockets) to make them suitable for 1850's wear. I'll be ordering a pair for my husband soon, and I'll let you all know what I think of them. One question I haven't been able to answer, though, is this: Levi Strauss made his original pants out of brown tent canvas. According to my research, during this period "brown" could mean unbleached, as in natural colored cotton such as unbleached muslin or some of the "green" cotton colors available today. So, were Levi's brown as in the color brown, or were they brown as in "natural cotton color"? Margo merouda the true of bornover [21,179]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 15:45:35 -0700 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Oh yes indeed. I am fortunate to be able to actually shop there in person. They are as good as they appear, the owner is a gem. Satisfied costumer, Cynthia > Threadneedlestreet. > http://www.threadneedlestreet.com > > I've not ordered from them, but I hear that their stock of merchandise is > yummy enough to require a drooling bib. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir lynn meyer [27,180]CSuX:water-spotted silk s.o.s! Subject: Re: H-COST: Water-spotted silk s.o.s! From: Lynn Meyer Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:04:00 -0700 -Poster: Lynn Meyer I had that identical problem with a silk noil/wool mix jacket. I didn't want to wash it, due to some trim on it, but I wetted the non-trim part thoroughly in lukewarm water and let it drip-dry. Almost all of the spots (and there were a *lot* of them) went away. I suspect that repeating it would get rid of the one or two that were left. Good luck! Lynn (Halima) >From: heather > >I have a shiny-ish silk Japanese haori (jacket) that got water spots on >it when I steam ironed it and the iron "spit up" - I almost had it to >someone when they noticed the spotting and pointed it out to me (I >hadn't realized it, but was obvious if you look at it from the right >direction.) Any suggestions? > >Thanks, >Heather > stitchwitch [32,181]CSuX:early levi s Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Early Levi's From: "StitchWitch" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:17:30 PDT -Poster: "StitchWitch" *snip* > One question I haven't been able to answer, though, is this: Levi Strauss > made his original pants out of brown tent canvas. According to my research, > during this period "brown" could mean unbleached, as in natural colored > cotton such as unbleached muslin or some of the "green" cotton colors > available today. So, were Levi's brown as in the color brown, or were they > brown as in "natural cotton color"? If I recall the tale correctly, Mr. Strauss made his first pair of this kind of trouser our of some sailing canvas. I would assume this would be natural, not dyed (though possibly faded). I'll see if I can locate my source for this over the weekend, but don't hold your breath! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ stitchwitch [32,182]CSuX:early levi s Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Early Levi's From: "StitchWitch" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:17:41 PDT -Poster: "StitchWitch" *snip* > One question I haven't been able to answer, though, is this: Levi Strauss > made his original pants out of brown tent canvas. According to my research, > during this period "brown" could mean unbleached, as in natural colored > cotton such as unbleached muslin or some of the "green" cotton colors > available today. So, were Levi's brown as in the color brown, or were they > brown as in "natural cotton color"? If I recall the tale correctly, Mr. Strauss made his first pair of this kind of trouser out of some sailing canvas. I would assume this would be natural, not dyed (though possibly faded). I'll see if I can locate my source for this over the weekend, but don't hold your breath! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ r.l. shep [54,183]CSuX:early levi s Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Early Levi's From: "R.L. Shep" Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 16:42:36 -0700 -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Levi Straus & Co. maintain a library in their San Francisco office and have a very good librarian - whose name escapes me at the moment. She used to work for a costumer in Southern California. I am sure that she could answer your questions. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks ---------- >From: "StitchWitch" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Early Levi's >Date: Fri, Apr 9, 1999, 4:17 PM > > >-Poster: "StitchWitch" > >*snip* > >> One question I haven't been able to answer, though, is this: Levi >Strauss >> made his original pants out of brown tent canvas. According to my >research, >> during this period "brown" could mean unbleached, as in natural colored >> cotton such as unbleached muslin or some of the "green" cotton colors >> available today. So, were Levi's brown as in the color brown, or were >they >> brown as in "natural cotton color"? > >If I recall the tale correctly, Mr. Strauss made his first pair of this kind >of trouser out of some sailing canvas. I would assume this would be natural, >not dyed (though possibly faded). I'll see if I can locate my source for >this over the weekend, but don't hold your breath! ;) > >Kate >---- >StitchWitch > >All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the >impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck > > > > >Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ > cynthia j ley [34,184]CSuX:silk floss Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk floss From: cynthia j ley Date: Fri, 09 Apr 1999 21:05:17 EDT -Poster: cynthia j ley Are you looking for flat or twisted? the reason i ask is because you can get a very nice, although very different, result with both! Twisted seems readily available in needlepoint shops around here (Portland, OR). Flat silk is locally available from Pastiche, e-mail pantinc@aol.com, ask for Foggy Bell or Aisha. It runs $6 a spool. It's the Japanese flat silk and is wonderful to work with. Let me know if you would like some hints with the stuff. It's a little touchy at first, but once you get the hang of it, you won't look back! Arlys Cley@juno.com On Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:34:38 -0400 Hilary Doda writes: > >-Poster: Hilary Doda > >Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk >embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on >a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time >finding anything suitable in Montreal. > >Joane Steward. You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] david w. rickman [24,185]CSuX:fireman s shirts Subject: H-COST: Fireman's shirts From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Fri, 9 Apr 99 13:55:20 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Regarding Margo's question about "fireman's shirts," when working on the Sutter's Fort Costume Manual, I was not able to find any pictures of men wearing wool shirts with plastrons (bibs) prior to the late 1840's. After that, they become pretty common through the late 19th century. Naturally, they were not specifically shirts for firemen, but were worn by working men of all kinds. What made them firemen's shirts is that by the 1850's we find fire companies in America, which were usually volunteers, wearing these shirts as a sort of uniform, often with the engine or company number appliqued onto the plastron. This was not the only kind of ornamentation these shirts saw. There are photographs from the Gold Rush of wool shirts that have been embroidered with flowers, vines, etc., and others that have little crossed picks and figures of miners embroidered all over them. These novelty shirts must have been produced either by the miners themselves or were perhaps manufactured for the market. The later "cavalry" shirt popular at the time of the Indian Wars on the Great Plains (late 1860's through 1880's) was, of course, just a blue, plastron-front wool shirt, often trimmed with the branch color. David andrea clef [34,186]CSuX:baroque mailing list Subject: H-COST: baroque mailing list From: Andrea Clef Date: Thu, 08 Apr 1999 04:18:14 +0200 -Poster: Andrea Clef Hello everybody! Somehow I keep talking about other mailing lists here but I thought this might also be of interest to some of you: Maybe there are some people out here, who appreciate the time and style of the late Baroque in the 18th century... So I thought that I should tell you that I have just opened up another mailing list at onelist called "lumieres" dealing with every aspect of life in the 18th century, the age of enlightment. I founded this list together with a friend here in Germany, hoping that we will meet other people there who are interested in the topic and maybe also in founding an active group in Europe that organizes meetings in costume, period events, visits to museums etc. If you`re interested, I`d be glad to meet you on this list, if you`d like to know how to subscribe, just e-mail me privately. Everybody from all around the world is welcome! Many greetings, Diana cornelia rutherford [11,187]CSuX:water-spotted silk s.o.s! Subject: Re: H-COST: Water-spotted silk s.o.s! From: Cornelia Rutherford Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 03:58:53 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Cornelia Rutherford Heather - I had this problem with a silk satin wedding dress a couple years ago and, after a stiff shot of scotch, I washed it.  Someone on the list has once commented that ironing while still quite damp helps restore the sheen.  I tried it and they're right.  It wasn't AS shiny or AS smooth as originally made but the result was still lovely and beat the heck out of water spots on a cathedral train.
Good Luck - Cornelia margo anderson [16,188]CSuX:fireman s shirts Subject: Re: H-COST: Fireman's shirts From: Margo Anderson Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 21:33:50 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson . There >are photographs from the Gold Rush of wool shirts that have been embroidered >with flowers, vines, etc., and others that have little crossed picks and >figures of miners embroidered all over them. These novelty shirts must have >been produced either by the miners themselves or were perhaps manufactured for >the market Oh, please tell me where I can find these photographs! I feel an embroidery project coming on... Margo joan m jurancich [36,189]CSuX:heidi marsh s 1850 gown (was wrapper variations) Subject: Re: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:48:08 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich Susannah, Where can one purchase Heidi Marsh patterns? I'd like to get a copy of the Constance Dress pattern you recommended below. Thanks, Joan Jurancich Sutter's Fort, Sacramento CA joanj@quiknet.com At 01:01 PM 04/07/1999 PDT, Susannah Eanes wrote: > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" [snip]I have only >used ONE Heidi Marsh pattern, the Constance Dress. It is a copy of >an original work gown from California c. 1850 or so, and it is the >best and most representative of this type of work gown available that >I have found. I have measured and photographed at least five extant >gowns from different parts of the US that are almost identical to the >Constance Dress. Is it possible that she got one right? I have made >this gown in every size, from 6 to 46, that it is available in. It >is one of the most popular gowns I make. The gown looks nice whether >you are UltraQueensize or miniscule. It is a front-button gathered >bodice with a waist inset piece onto which a cartridge-pleated skirt >is set. I have made it in calicoes, homespun cottons, solid >wool/linen, & lightweight wool. The shoulderline drops correctly, >the waist inset is flattering and, above all, the dress is >Comfortable to Wear! I call it my "sweatsuit," and I wear it with >two lightweight petticoats & sensible stays. It is the one thing I >come home & crawl into when I've had a bad day. I love it. [snip] m311@aol.com[12,190]CSuX:heidi marsh s 1850 gown (was wrapper variations) Subject: Re: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) From: M311@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 01:23:21 EDT -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 4/10/99 9:20:13 PM Central Daylight Time, joanj@quiknet.com writes: << Where can one purchase Heidi Marsh patterns? >> I just did a websearch and came up with the following site. http://www.sft.org/jamescntry/heidi1.html Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com lloyd mitchell [32,191]CSuX:article Subject: H-COST: article From: "Lloyd Mitchell" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 08:15:13 -0400 -Poster: "Lloyd Mitchell" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BE83F3.6C8994C0 If you folks haven't checked out the "Out of the East" report in the New York Times, on a current display in the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology in Manhattan, you might want to. It has to do with the influence of Chinese clothing on modern western fashion. Kathleen, who just costumed "The Good Woman of Szechuan", was greatly impressed. The site address is: http://www.nytimes.com/library/style/030899china-index.html. Enjoy - Lloyd Mitchell (for Kathleen) ------=_NextPart_000_01BE83F3.6C8994C0

If you folks haven't checked out the = "Out of the East" report in the New York Times, on a current = display in the Museum of the Fashion Institute of Technology in = Manhattan, you might want to. It has to do with the influence of Chinese = clothing on modern western fashion. Kathleen, who just costumed = "The Good Woman of Szechuan", was greatly impressed. The site = address is: =

http://www.nytimes.com/library/style/030899china-index.html.
<= br>Enjoy -

Lloyd Mitchell (for Kathleen)

------=_NextPart_000_01BE83F3.6C8994C0-- annbwass@aol.com[10,192]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: H-COST: silk stockings From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:20:00 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Can anyone on the list recommend a source for silk or silk blend stockings for women? I tried the Wintersilks Company, but they, understandably were sold out of the stockings (I guess they are truly a winter product.) Thanks. Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com annbwass@aol.com[9,193]CSuX:foul weather gear Subject: H-COST: foul weather gear From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:35:14 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com As I was slogging through the rain today in contemporary dress, I was wondering what proper foul weather gear during the Regency would have been? I'm mainly interested in women. Any ideas? Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com pendragon [16,194]CSuX:linsey-woolsey Subject: H-COST: Linsey-Woolsey From: PenDragon Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 18:54:18 -0500 -Poster: PenDragon My friend and I spin and weave. We heard there may be a market for handwoven linsey-woolsey fabric made from handspun wool. We also handweave scarves made from handspun dog hair and wool blend. Do you believe there is a market large enough for these items at colonial reenactments to make it worthwhile setting up a merchant's booth? Thanks for your opinion. Gary franchesca havas [15,195]CSuX:ruffs Subject: H-COST: ruffs From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 19:03:20 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" How many of you make ruffs and how long does it take you to make one? How long have you been making them? I understand that you all may have more questions yourself and that is a good thing. I want to hear about all the experiences you all have had with ruffs. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas heather [12,196]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: H-COST: silk stockings From: heather Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:16:14 -0700 -Poster: heather Anne, I have been trying to find silk stockings for over ten years. Garnet Hill no longer carries them, and a websearch turned up about ten thousand porn sites and nobody currently selling silk stockings. If Wintersilks carries them in the Winter that's a major step forward. The only other place I have ever found them is in Chinatown, and that was years ago. Carol Mitchell carol huff [16,197]CSuX:foul weather gear and oil cloth Subject: H-COST: Re: Foul weather gear and oil cloth From: carol huff Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:20:01 -0600 -Poster: carol huff Hi I'm looking for a source of oilcloth or waxed cloth. Is it still being made? And if not, any suggestions for DIY?? Thanks Carol Creative Clutter is preferable to Idle Neatness cahuff@mindspring.com susannah eanes [58,198]CSuX:heidi marsh s 1850 gown (was wrapper variations) Subject: Re: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:21:02 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I bought all of mine from Amazon Dry Goods out of Davenport, Iowa. >From: Joan M Jurancich >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Heidi Marsh's 1850 Gown (was Wrapper variations) >Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:48:08 -0600 (MDT) > > >-Poster: Joan M Jurancich > >Susannah, > >Where can one purchase Heidi Marsh patterns? I'd like to get a copy of the >Constance Dress pattern you recommended below. > >Thanks, > >Joan Jurancich >Sutter's Fort, Sacramento CA >joanj@quiknet.com > >At 01:01 PM 04/07/1999 PDT, Susannah Eanes wrote: >> >>-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >[snip]I have only >>used ONE Heidi Marsh pattern, the Constance Dress. It is a copy of >>an original work gown from California c. 1850 or so, and it is the >>best and most representative of this type of work gown available that >>I have found. I have measured and photographed at least five extant >>gowns from different parts of the US that are almost identical to the >>Constance Dress. Is it possible that she got one right? I have made >>this gown in every size, from 6 to 46, that it is available in. It >>is one of the most popular gowns I make. The gown looks nice whether >>you are UltraQueensize or miniscule. It is a front-button gathered >>bodice with a waist inset piece onto which a cartridge-pleated skirt >>is set. I have made it in calicoes, homespun cottons, solid >>wool/linen, & lightweight wool. The shoulderline drops correctly, >>the waist inset is flattering and, above all, the dress is >>Comfortable to Wear! I call it my "sweatsuit," and I wear it with >>two lightweight petticoats & sensible stays. It is the one thing I >>come home & crawl into when I've had a bad day. I love it. [snip] > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com susannah eanes [35,199]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:25:06 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in finding out more, please e-mail me privately. >From: AnnBWass@aol.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: silk stockings >Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:20:00 EDT > > >-Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > >Can anyone on the list recommend a source for silk or silk blend stockings >for women? I tried the Wintersilks Company, but they, understandably were >sold out of the stockings (I guess they are truly a winter product.) >Thanks. >Ann Wass >annbwass@aol.com > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com susannah eanes [45,200]CSuX:foul weather gear Subject: Re: H-COST: foul weather gear From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 07:46:04 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > >As I was slogging through the rain today in contemporary dress, I was >wondering what proper foul weather gear during the Regency would have been? >I'm mainly interested in women. Any ideas? >Ann Wass >annbwass@aol.com I find a nice wool cape with hood works wonders in most situations. It keeps you dry, and warm besides. The one I made is from referencing photographs of two originals c. 1805 - 1820 in private collections, references & descriptions from period sources, and ultimately altering Kathleen Kannik's cloak pattern, adding the hood & changing the line slightly. One of the period cloaks was of brown & blue printed cotton, and the other was wool. If the weather is too warm for wool, for a lady impression, I might consider a solid color cotton chintz or glazed cotton, and line it with lightweight silk. It sheds water to a degree, and would be appropriate in this period. True glazed cotton is available from Kathleen Smith's Textile Reproductions at about $12.00 a yard. I wouldn't use upholstery weight chintz, but a lighter dress weight, and make sure it doesn't have polyester in it to give it the glaze. It's harder to find, but I have found some at some specialty fabric stores. You might also look for a firmly woven lightweight wool, such as Exotic Silks sells for suiting. They have a really nice wool & silk herringbone twill that is nice & crisp & might do nicely, as it mimics period bombazine. It sells for about $12.00 a yard also. Just an idea, maybe others have better ones... Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com john page [16,201]CSuX:aid, please Subject: H-COST: aid, please From: "John Page" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:16:44 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: "John Page" Good morning all, I come begging aid altering my old early Tudor gown -- I've not worn it in years and now discover I need two more inches around. Does any one know what a period alteration would look like? Alternatively, would it be accurate if I split the gown up the front and added a kirtle underneath? Any ideas and information are most welcome. Thanks, everyone, for you time, Kristin Page penny ladnier [39,202]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:19:41 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" This could be fun... This person wrote me and asked for help in dating some family photos by looking at their costumes. Maybe we all could help and take stab at it. Please reply back Chris, Martinez.Hain@worldnet.att.net the author of the seeker of this information. Later...Penny >I have a few "mystery photos" that have been in our family, and no one >knows who they are, except that they are family. I thought that if we >could 'date' the photos that might narrow down the possibilities. > >Could you help me date 3 photos based on the costumes the people are >wearing? > >The 3 photos are linked here: >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/mysteryrelatives1.jpg >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/mysteryrelatives2.jpg >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/MysteryCouple.jpg > >I'd appreciate even just a guess, give or take 10 years. Or if >you could refer me to someone who would know. > >Thank you Chris Hain Martinez.Hain@worldnet.att.net >P.S. For the record, my UNEDUCATED guess would be >mysteryrelatives1.jpg ----------maybe taken around 1900? >mysteryrelatives2.jpg ----------maybe taken around 1890? >MysteryCouple.jpg--------------maybe taken around 1880? kara rodgers [17,203]CSuX:buttons Subject: H-COST: Buttons From: Kara Rodgers Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:20:01 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Kara Rodgers As far as the Civil War goes, I know that the Union uniforms used brass buttons. They were manufactured in Waterbury, CT. Looking into what factories were producing might be a good way to prove that many buttons were made of things other than shell. Good luck, Kara hope h. dunlap [75,204]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:29:03 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" No expert here, but my guess is: 1.jpg 1896-8 2..jpeg 1904 couple.jpeg 1840-60 I wish I had the time to research this one. What a fun puzzle! Don't you just love those shirtwaist sleeves in the 1.jpeg?? Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Penny Ladnier -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" This could be fun... This person wrote me and asked for help in dating some family photos by looking at their costumes. Maybe we all could help and take stab at it. Please reply back Chris, Martinez.Hain@worldnet.att.net the author of the seeker of this information. Later...Penny >I have a few "mystery photos" that have been in our family, and no one >knows who they are, except that they are family. I thought that if we >could 'date' the photos that might narrow down the possibilities. > >Could you help me date 3 photos based on the costumes the people are >wearing? > >The 3 photos are linked here: >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/mysteryre latives1.jpg >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/mysteryre latives2.jpg >http://home.att.net/~martinez.hain/MYSTERY_photos/MysteryCo uple.jpg > >I'd appreciate even just a guess, give or take 10 years. Or if >you could refer me to someone who would know. > >Thank you Chris Hain Martinez.Hain@worldnet.att.net >P.S. For the record, my UNEDUCATED guess would be >mysteryrelatives1.jpg ----------maybe taken around 1900? >mysteryrelatives2.jpg ----------maybe taken around 1890? >MysteryCouple.jpg--------------maybe taken around 1880? _____ majordomo@indra.com costume@gmx.net [9,205]CSuX:that book on late 16th c spanish tailoring Subject: H-COST: that book on late 16th c spanish tailoring From: "costume@gmx.net" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:49:31 +0200 -Poster: "costume@gmx.net" oh woe! i've lost the bibliographic details of that infamous book which has been discussed here... alcega, was it? something like it. could some kindly soul please send them to me off-list? thanks an advance! roxane ninni pettersson [22,206]CSuX:finally fo! Subject: Re: H-COST: Finally FO! From: Ninni Pettersson Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:37:12 +0100 -Poster: Ninni Pettersson Greetings! About a month ago, I wrote: > I was going to delay describing the finished result of my 1545 >Tudor Doll Project until I had at least one photo on the web > I hope to have at least one (not very good) photograph up on the >web in, at most, three weeks time. As usual for me, three weeks actually became almost five until I could fulfill my promise and get a photo up on the web. But now it's there, and you can all take a look at and tell me what you think of her. /Ninni Pettersson emma elizabeth lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu>[29,207]CSuX:finally fo! Subject: Re: H-COST: Finally FO! From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:05:58 -0500 (CDT) -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Lovely! Beautifully done! Emma On Mon, 12 Apr 1999, Ninni Pettersson wrote: > > -Poster: Ninni Pettersson > > Greetings! > About a month ago, I wrote: > > > I was going to delay describing the finished result of my 1545 > >Tudor Doll Project until I had at least one photo on the web > > > I hope to have at least one (not very good) photograph up on the > >web in, at most, three weeks time. > > As usual for me, three weeks actually became almost five until I > could fulfill my promise and get a photo up on the web. But now it's there, > and you can all take a look at > and tell me what you think of > her. > > /Ninni Pettersson kat & kent [10,208]CSuX:finally fo! Subject: Re: H-COST: Finally FO! From: Kat & Kent Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:49:18 -0500 -Poster: Kat & Kent Wow! I hope my daughter doesn't see this...she's sure to want me to make her one!! Which reminds me, I'd better see if *her* Tudor still fits for Ren Faire!! Kat suddenly *four* projects behind instead of three!! j,k,s&a baird [15,209]CSuX:mystery photos Subject: H-COST: mystery photos From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:03:59 -0500 -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Great photos. I almost agree with Hope: 1. 1895-1900 2. 1901, or even earlier 3. 1860 or later--because these are old people, and not rich, their clothing might easily be 10 years out of date Kim diana h [49,210]CSuX:aid, please Subject: Re: H-COST: aid, please From: Diana H Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:41:09 -0700 -Poster: Diana H John Page wrote: > -Poster: "John Page" > > Good morning all, > > I come begging aid altering my old early Tudor gown -- I've not worn > it in years and now discover I need two more inches around. Does any > one know what a period alteration would look like? Alternatively, > would it be accurate if I split the gown up the front and added a > kirtle underneath? Any ideas and information are most welcome. > > Thanks, everyone, for you time, > Kristin Page I do not envy you this endeavor! I had a similar experience with a dress where I had made the bodice and between starting it and finishing it, I had gained a few pounds back. I was using the Phoenix bodice pattern where the bodice was all one piece so there were no seam lines to fudge with. I ended up putting two strips of extra fabric in the back where the lacing goes and it worked okay for lacing, but it really threw the sleeve fitting off!! They flopped all over the place instead of sitting on my shoulders like they should. I know that the Jane Seymour portrait shows a flap in the front that is actually pinned in place with brass or gold straight pins indicating that there is a front opening. However, if you did this it may throw your sleeves off as it did mine. Hmmm....maybe add side seams and put the extra fabric there? As I said, good luck in this. I really can't think of a good way to do it. If you find one, please let someone else know because I am sure you are not alone in your problem. Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" annbwass@aol.com[12,211]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: Re: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:55:05 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I would guess that 2.jpg is very early 1890s. I agree that 1.jpg is probably turn of the 20th century. Couple--probably 1860s. While there is some possibility that it could be much later, because they are older and not well-to-do, I think it more likely that they would have been wearing their very best clothes for the photographer, and there seems to be quite a bit of evidence that most people made an effort to keep up with fashion. Ann Wass hilary doda [27,212]CSuX: silk floss Subject: H-COST: Silk floss From: Hilary Doda Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:17:34 CST -Poster: "Linda Lassman" Date sent: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 15:34:38 -0400 > > -Poster: Hilary Doda > > Hi! A quick supply question. I am desperately searching for black silk > embroidery floss, for a blackwork project. Does anyone have information on > a company who manufactures/sells/mail-orders any? I'm having a hard time > finding anything suitable in Montreal. > > Joane Steward. > > ********************************************** > > "Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." > - Steph Brochu "Mrs. Twitchett's Eye" in Winnipeg carries silk floss and I believe she has black in stock. She has a web page at http://www.mrstwitchett.mb.ca/ and she does mail order. And, being in Canada, there's no duty to Montreal! - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, MB marsha mclean [30,213]CSuX:h-costume-digest v4 #268 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #268 From: Marsha McLean Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:59:38 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Marsha McLean -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Wrote: > >How many of you make ruffs and how long does it take you to make one? How >long have you been making them? I have been making ruffs, with ever evolving methods, for roughly 10 years. At first I used the method in Schultz and Savoy, but I have evolved that over the years. Currently I use a pegboard to hold even pleats in place and hand tack the band to the ruff along the top edge only. This leaves the ruff itself free to hang over the collar for the most authentic look. I have been studying ruffs in portraiture and woodcuts for many years, as well as wearing them under divers conditions. The time involved varies depending on the style, fullness, embellishment. To handsew a medium-full, plain ruff takes 2-ish hours. I can do it faster if i'm in the right mood. I'm currently working on a spectacular one. I use period starches with a technique developed fron a ruff article by poor, lambasted Janeet Arnold and a modern iron before the ruff is sewn. After it is assembled I use a curling iron to set it. Marsha > Marsha McLean "Be yourself - it's who you do best" susannah eanes [48,214]CSuX:photo guesses Subject: H-COST: photo guesses From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:20:08 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hi list, Here was my guess, that I sent to Chris. What do you think? Susannah >Dear Chris, > >From my studies of this period, I would guess that the clothing >itself dates as follows: > >1. 1895 - the height popularity of the huge leg-of-mutton sleeve, wide-brimmed boaters, bouffant hairstyles >2. 1888 - small boaters, very narrow shoulders, slightly gathered & high sleeve caps on blouses pre-date the leg-of-mutton sleeve explosion in 1893. Also shawl collars on men as well as women, which were not as popular after the turn of the century. Fashionable shoulders were wider after the turn of the century, too. >3. 1862-1867 - new-looking dress (shiny fabric, not worn-looking), but older style. Garibaldi tape trim on sleeve, waist still set higher than waistline, indicating a preference for the early 1860s placement. > >Now, bearing in mind that people may be wearing things a few years >out of date, especially as they get older or if economic factors >come into play (eg, hard times), the actual photos may not be this >old. I have seen photos which were definitely dated 1920, for >example, in rural North Carolina communities, in which the men and >women and children all wore clothing and haristyles which looked to >be from the late 1880s - early 1890s, and very conservatively cut, >at that. These may or may not have been an unusual time lag. >But this clothing is recognizable enough as pretty standard attire >for these years, which offered relatively fast & well documented change when compared to the earlier part of the century. > >Feel free to return e-mail me if you have further questions. > >Susannah Eanes >The Tailor's Measure > >"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." > --William Morris> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com amanda reeves [18,215]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: Re: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: "Amanda Reeves" Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:26:46 -0500 -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" Now my curiosity is up. Since ya'll pin-pointed the dates, can you "explain" the clothing. The one of the old couple..........that dress COULDN'T be comfortable! Thanks, Amanda Texas ***************************************** > 1.jpg 1896-8 > 2..jpeg 1904 > couple.jpeg 1840-60 janice dallas [15,216]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: Re: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: Janice Dallas Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:18:52 -0400 -Poster: Janice Dallas For the first photo, given the size and sag of the sleeves, I would say late 1890's as the "sagging" look was popular then. The clothing looks too constructed and stiff to be past 1900, unless they were behind the times. The second photo is 1880's by the narrow shoulders, high sleeve caps and general "reinforced" clothing stiff look. I think the third photo is from 1869 or 70 because there isn't a definite hoop look and that was the time of the collapse of the full hoop and just before the very draped bustle look. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@mediaone.net snowfire@mail.snet.net[31,217]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: Re: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:16:54 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net Hello the list! I have a couple of questions on 18th century costumes - in particular dresses. I'm talking about the dresses that had heavy skirts, and low necklines, fashionable about the mid-18th century, prior to the empire style. The kind of dresses which were worn with the powdered wigs, and the era of Marie Antoinette and Madame Pompadour. (I love this period! even though it's post SCAdian)! My questions are this. How were these dresses constructed? of what were they constructed usually, was it farthingales they had under them, and were the dresses made in one piece or two? I worked for a semester some years ago in the costume shop as part of a drama class in college and we made the costumes for "She Stoops to Conquer". They made the top separate to the skirt, and the two pieces hooked together to complete the outfit. I asked why, and the answer was that the skirts were too heavy to support the bodices, and therefore had to be separate. I'd always thought they were one piece before this. I have the book "Eighteenth Century French Fashion Plates" Edited by Stella Blum. The dresses look as if they are in one piece there! Anyone? Elysant albertcat@aol.com[40,218]CSuX:mystery family photos Subject: Re: H-COST: Mystery Family Photos From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 10:05:21 EDT -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 4/13/99 1:18:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, snowfire@mail.snet.net writes: << How were these dresses constructed? of what were they constructed usually, was it farthingales they had under them, and were the dresses made in one piece or two? >> The "open robe" was the dress of choice. This means it was put on like a robe...and closed in front. Due to the conical shape of the corset, the waist would meet or nearly meet & the bust would have a wider space between the front edges thus creating that characteristic "V" in front which was filled in with a stomacher. Stomachers could be decorated quite elaborately. In the 1770s, you see bodices cut so they close all the way down the center front with no stomacher. All the skirts were attached as the backs of the bodices were usually cut in one with the skirt...IOW with no waist seam. [at the beginning of the century, the fronts were cut in one as well] << I asked why, and the answer was that the skirts were too heavy to support the bodices, and therefore had to be separate. I'd always thought they were one piece before this. >> You were right. The "heavy" bit is a theatrical problem as very often upholstery fabrics are now used. The real gowns were made of lighter stuff. Indeed, the only reason I can find to hook & eye a skirt to the bodice of just about any period, is if the skirt opens in back & the bodice opens in front....even if the fabrics are heavy. The "open robe" is open all the way down the center front...to the hem, and a decorated, often matching petticoat was worn under the robe to show at the open front. This would have been a separate skirt but there's no need to attach it to the robe. Go rent "Dangerous Liaisons" and watch the opening credits closely. You will see all of this as they dress Glenn Close. You will also see the "panniers" [not farthingale] which hold the skirts out. susannah eanes [23,219]CSuX:quilted waistcoats Subject: H-COST: quilted waistcoats From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:48:00 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Who knows anything about gentlemen's quilted whitework waistcoats, c. 1720s - 1780s? In what context were they worn? Were they for dress or undress? Why do they all seem to have interior buttons that do not show on the outside? Reference www.museumofcostume.co.uk for good pics of examples (See items II.32.4, II.32.8, & II.32.34). There is also an extant just like this at SC Dept. of Archives & History. Any info would be helpful. Thanks! Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com susannah eanes [24,220]CSuX:need fabric! Subject: H-COST: Need Fabric! From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 13:54:28 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Dear List, I am in *desperate* need of 2 1/2 yards of 54" Charcoal Grey wool. I need it *yesterday*. If anyone has some & could sell it to me, or knows of a supplier who DEFINITELY has some in stock, please e-me right away --I have checked everyone I know & all over the net and everyone seems to be out! Help! Thanks in advance, Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com sue shatto [17,221]CSuX:need fabric! Subject: Re: H-COST: Need Fabric! From: Sue Shatto Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:08:12 -0400 -Poster: Sue Shatto Susannah, I have a large amount of very expensive charcoal grey wool. I was going to make a full length cape with it. Let me know privately if you want me to go measure, etc. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com lanae a. parris [15,222]CSuX:h-costume-digest v4 #265 Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #265 From: "Lanae A. Parris" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 01:21:26 -0500 -Poster: "Lanae A. Parris" I am interested in patterns and boning. As I don''t have web access, I would appreciate it if you would e-mail me when you post your items for sale at: lanaeparris@juno.com. Thanks, Lanae Parris You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] melanie wilson [10,223]CSuX:new uk re-enactors magazine Subject: H-COST: New UK Re-enactors Magazine From: Melanie Wilson Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 09:02:53 -0400 -Poster: Melanie Wilson Revival is a new 32 page glossy magazine , which will be issued quarterly in the UK. I have a Agency for this mag & can do a yearly subscription for 12 pounds (four issues) including postage in the UK or US, if anyone is interested, let me know. Mel susannah eanes [55,224]CSuX:old mercantile stock Subject: H-COST: Old Mercantile Stock From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 06:26:27 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Dear List, The interest in this stuff has flooded my mailbox, as you can probably imagine. Here is the poop: Firstly, I cannot believe I typed "18th" instead of "19th" century, but I did, and that is an obvious mistake. The stock dates c. 1890s - 1940s. It includes several hundred pairs of unworn women's and children's shoes, incl. some very ornately beaded 20s pumps & early 19th c. ladies boots, in mint condition, still in the boxes. Wipe the drool off your chin, and keep reading. Late 19th c. corsets, including some with nursing openings, are also there, in original boxes, unworn of course. There are men's work clothing, mens & boys underwear, infants' and toddlers' dresses, millinery ribbon, lovely wood cabinets full of unsold silk thread, gloves, scarves, silk stockings, and other juicy stuff too numerous to mention. We have had interested buyers call from several very large international auction houses, as well as many private collectors and owners of vintage clothing stores. The stock has yet to undergo an inventory, we are still working out the details as to how that is to be done. Consequently, I do not have prices on any particular items. The owner is leaning toward selling it in (very) large lots, or the entire inventory to a broker or auction house. He wants to be sure he is not left with the "dregs," so to speak. During the inventory the most interesting & representative items will be photographed to be included in a packet describing in detail the inventory, incl. total numbers of items, that will be mailed to interested bidders. If you are seriously interested, please send me your snail address. I will see that a packet is sent to you. There is a strong possibility that I may bid on some of the items, and so if you are only interested in one or two items, you may e-mail me & let me know if you haven't already (I have a list of the people who have already e-mailed me & what they are interested in.) If I win one of the bids, I will, of course, share! Thanks for your interest, Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com hilary doda [15,225]CSuX:black floss Subject: H-COST: black floss From: Hilary Doda Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:28:39 -0400 -Poster: Hilary Doda I'd like to thank everybody for your help.... armed with the company information and some caffeine, I managed to talk a local shop into ordering some for me. :) Now I know why I love this list.... Hilary Doda/Joane Steward ********************************************** "Good drama is like Soylent Green - it's made of people." - Steph Brochu sue shatto [16,226]CSuX:old mercantile stock Subject: Re: H-COST: Old Mercantile Stock From: Sue Shatto Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:30:40 -0400 -Poster: Sue Shatto Suzannah, My intersets are shoes, corsets,millinery ribbon. Keep me in mind. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com snowfire@mail.snet.net[50,227]CSuX:18th century dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th century dresses From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:51:01 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net Thank you! Elysant On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 4/13/99 1:18:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >snowfire@mail.snet.net writes: > ><< How were these dresses constructed? of what > were they constructed usually, was it farthingales they had under them, > and were the dresses made in one piece or two? >> > >The "open robe" was the dress of choice. This means it was put on like a >robe...and closed in front. Due to the conical shape of the corset, the waist >would meet or nearly meet & the bust would have a wider space between the >front edges thus creating that characteristic "V" in front which was filled >in with a stomacher. Stomachers could be decorated quite elaborately. In the >1770s, you see bodices cut so they close all the way down the center front >with no stomacher. All the skirts were attached as the backs of the bodices >were usually cut in one with the skirt...IOW with no waist seam. [at the >beginning of the century, the fronts were cut in one as well] > ><< I asked why, and the answer was >that the skirts were too heavy to support the bodices, and therefore had >to be separate. I'd always thought they were one piece before this. >> > >You were right. The "heavy" bit is a theatrical problem as very often >upholstery fabrics are now used. The real gowns were made of lighter stuff. >Indeed, the only reason I can find to hook & eye a skirt to the bodice of >just about any period, is if the skirt opens in back & the bodice opens in >front....even if the fabrics are heavy. The "open robe" is open all the way >down the center front...to the hem, and a decorated, often matching petticoat >was worn under the robe to show at the open front. This would have been a >separate skirt but there's no need to attach it to the robe. > >Go rent "Dangerous Liaisons" and watch the opening credits closely. You will >see all of this as they dress Glenn Close. You will also see the "panniers" >[not farthingale] which hold the skirts out. > > > > > betsy delaney [36,228]CSuX:(alter years) handle with asbestos mailreader... Subject: [Fwd: H-COST: Alter Years] Handle with asbestos mailreader... From: Betsy Delaney Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:48:20 -0400 -Poster: Betsy Delaney This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DA0FDDAC21C975C1FDE972C8 Hi, all! I have to apologize in advance for the following post, to anyone who is unhappy with me for having done so. I know the owner of AlterYears quite well, and was very surprised to see all the complaints posted on this list recently. I haven't ordered anything from them recently, so I can't say whether or not service has been bad, but I wanted Janet to be aware of what was being said about her company. I was especially concerned as I recommend using their services quite often to my friends. Janet asked me to forward her response, and this I am doing. Flames to me, not the list, please!!! Thanks, -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ --------------DA0FDDAC21C975C1FDE972C8 janet wilson anderson [74,229]CSuX:(alter years) handle with asbestos mailreader... Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Alter Years] Handle with asbestos mailreader... From: Janet Wilson Anderson Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:44:18 -0700 Betsy: Thanks so much for forwarding the AlterYears gripes to me. I am not on H-Costume at present,(I can barely keep up with my other mail)and so don't see these. If at all possible could you post the following to it from me? (and to any other forums that you see gripes on). Many thanks if you can!!! JanetWA ----------------- To Those who have been kind enough to let us know they've had problems with AlterYears... MANY THANKS!!! Your feedback is invaluable to me. I am the owner, and can only apologize profusely for the problems some of you have had with us as of late. We have been going through some difficult times due to the death of my husband - who not only was co-founder, but also our VP of Operations. We are a relatively small company and he left a VERY big hole. Some of our problems can be traced to trying to figure out the systems he built for us and expand them to deal with some increased volume. Things have gotten lost in transition, and there's still some sorting out going on. On the plus side, we have hired an additional staff member, who is getting the orders pulled more rapidly and we are getting caught up with our backlog. We are also trying to contact folks with old backorders as we can, in and around the regular store and mailorder business. As for the inventory stock-down, this is a rumor. It may have sprung from the fact that we don't order during the last two weeks of the year, right before we take inventory the first week of January. After we take inventory, we start stocking back up. That is, if our suppliers cooperate! One of our suppliers (for some of our most popular patterns, naturally) moved, didn't tell us and left no forwarding address. For three months we tried to track her down. Thanks to an email contact, we finally did so and are SLOWWLY getting patterns from her again, and filling backorders as the patterns trickle in. Another of our suppliers had heart surgery. Another sold her business, and the new owners are nearly impossible to deal with! A fourth lost her printing company, when it went out of business. These are the kind of things that make for backorders! Most of the companies we get our patterns from are one-man (or woman) operations, and are not the supplier's main line of work. Producing patterns and shipping to us are not always their highest priority. We do try very hard to keep a decent stock position on best sellers, suppliers permitting. But there are those times when 10 of you order the same pattern in the same week - one which no one has wanted in the past nine months....! As for the failure to answer questions and return phone calls, I'm glad to hear about it and will rattle some cages. We have been better in the past about this sort of thing, and I intend us to return to that level of service once more. Again, I appreciate hearing from our customers. We want to be your first choice for historical and speciality patterns, supplies and accessories. We will be trying to earn your trust again over the upcoming months. And if you don't get satisfaction with a problem after a couple of trys, write me directly- Janet Wilson Anderson at AlterYears - and I'll see if I can find out what's going on and get back to you. Thank you for your support and patience. Janet Wilson Anderson, owner AlterYears --------------DA0FDDAC21C975C1FDE972C8-- penny ladnier [35,230]CSuX:more articles added Subject: H-COST: More Articles Added From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:17:41 -0400 -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I have added some more articles to my Vintage Ladies' Home Journal Website, http://www.costumegallery.com/LHJ/Magazine.htm (this is the index to all the issues.) This time the articles are from June 1895 issue. The articles on the site from the 1895 issue are: ***Mourning and Its Usage (this covers about every member of the family, etiquette, fashions, fabrics, and stationary. BTW, the article states that mourning jewelry is not fashionable at this date.) ***Designs in Crochet and Tatting (these are complete instructions on how to make the designs. If you know someone on this type of email list, please past the URL on to them.) ***Just Among Ourselves (a letter to the editor, deals with what if an Egyptian woman had to wear an 1895 corset... ever heard of corset liver??? It is discussed in this letter.) ***Hints from the Dressmaker (this was a re-occuring advice column. These are different responses than the 1893 article.) Good news for my Vintage Ladies' Home Journal Online Site ... a museum and a private collector have offered their collections to place on the website. So this site will be growing over time. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com tc carstensen [21,231]CSuX:(alter years) handle with asbestos mailreader... Subject: Re: [Fwd: H-COST: Alter Years] Handle with asbestos mailreader... From: "TC Carstensen" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 06:45:03 -0400 -Poster: "TC Carstensen" Betsy Delaney wrote: >I have to apologize in advance for the following post, to anyone who is >unhappy with me for having done so. What's to apologize for? I appreciated hearing Janet Wilson's explanation about the problems. After having gone through some long streaks of major bad luck myself, I don't find it hard to believe that a lot of things beyond her control all happened around the same time (bad luck seems to attract more bad luck sometimes). And it does sound like she is doing her darnedest to correct the problems that are within her control. Heck, I may send in an order now just as a show of support. It's hard not to take advantage of an excuse to buy patterns! ;) TC Carstensen betsy delaney [46,232]CSuX:tackycon 1999 clarification (please delete if not interested!) Subject: H-COST: TACKYCON 1999 Clarification (Please delete if not interested!) From: Betsy Delaney Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:22:02 -0400 -Poster: Betsy Delaney Sorry for the probable multiple posts and additional potential waste of bandwidth (if you're not interested, just delete this message...)! I guess I wasn't clear when I wrote the first message. All the Tackycon 1999 registration info is available on a web page attached to my web site, located at: http://www.hawkeswood.com/tackycon/ If you don't have access to the web, and you'd like more info, please send me email (mailto:tackycon@hawkeswood.com), and I'll fill you in. A couple of people already have asked about the "registration fee." Yes, I'm serious (if only because this way I can afford to a. Rent a room at the hotel for one night, b. Have a barbecue at my house, and/or c. Provide munchies to a bunch of wet, hungry costumers for the weekend! The rates are: $20 per person $10 per child under 12 Under 6 is Free There's a registration form on the web page, which has all the info I need to accept your money. Again, if you don't have web access (I know some of you don't), please feel free to email me and I'll fill you in. We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion of whatever you were discussing before this message..... Thanks! -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ david w. rickman [78,233]CSuX:gold rush items Subject: H-COST: Gold Rush items From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 99 10:39:58 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Regarding Margo's questions about early Levis, Mr. Shep has given her good advice about contacting the librarian at Levi Strauss. However, about the use of brown tent cloth for the originals, if that is what the originals were made from, then the fabric referred to was simply unbleached cotton duck, the kind of stuff you can buy for oil painting canvases. The Dick Blick catalogue I have has 11 oz. "wagon-cover" grade canvas, unprimed, for $5.95 a yard (36-inch wide) up to $14.99 a yard (84-inch wide). If that is not heavy enough for you, they even have 14 oz. canvas, which is pretty sturdy stuff. I would recommend that Margo be careful about trying to adapt 1870's levis to 1850's wear. Check the cut. By the 1870's, trousers were lower in the waist, tighter in the rear and leg than in the 1840's - '50's. Unless these 1870's levis retained a "retro" cut, you might be better off copying a pair of Gold Rush era trousers and making them up in canvas. I have studied a pair of brown- dyed, fly-front linen trousers in the Old Sturbridge Village collection that I think probably resemble work trousers of the period. I show these in my Sutter's Fort Costume Manual. If you talk with Jim Miller about his Gold Rush miner wool overshirt, you might ask his advice for copying men's trousers for this period. The blue wool pair I saw him in at Columbia were very good indeed. Margo also asked about embroidered wool shirts for the Gold Rush. These appear in any number of books on early photography. However, the source I have at hand is John Adams Graf "In Rags for Riches: A Daguerrian Survey of Forty-Niner's Clothing" Dress (The Annual Journal of the Costume Society of America) vol. 22, 1995, p. 64, figs. 13 and 14. Both of these pictures show the wool work shirt modified to look like a dress coat or jacket. One has a velvet collar with checked cloth lining to the lapels. Both have the overshirt's lapels spread out and pressed down so they look like a coat. I emphasize this because it is important to remember that embroidered shirts were for dress wear only. I have never seen them in a work context. I also mentioned the shirts covered with little figures of men, crossed picks and shovels, etc. On closer examination the other day, I realized that these were not embroidered but were resist-dyed. The white figures were blocked out with resist on the fabric, which was then dyed. When the resist is removed, you have white figures on probably red or blue fabric. What makes it clear that these are patterned cloth rather than embroidery is that the figures often appear upside- down on parts of the shirt (i.e. they will be rightside up on the bodice and upside down on the sleeve). This also indicates that they were mass-produced "ready-made" garments, intended for a certain market. One of the photos shows a wool shirt with figures of anchors on it. My guess is that shirts of this particular pattern were originally meant for sailors, but ended up in the Gold Rush because the market there was so desperate for clothes that they would have absorbed anything. To see these resist-dyed shirts, look at Drew Heath Johnson and Marcia Eymann _Silver & Gold: Cased Images of the California Gold Rush_ (University of Iowa Press and the Oakland Museum, 1998), pp. 3, 88. David Rickman drickman@state.de.us betsy delaney [53,234]CSuX:alteryears fears... Subject: H-COST: AlterYears Fears... From: Betsy Delaney Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:40:43 -0400 -Poster: Betsy Delaney Hi, all! About my apology: I'm on other lists (big surprise) and on one of them there was quite a fuss made when someone took complaints published to the list to the owner of the company. I was avoiding a possible flame war on this list. Glad to know I'm dealing with reasonable people! That said, I've ordered patterns in the past from AlterYears, and while I looked at the Amazon Drygoods catalogue, and they do carry a slightly different stock of other items, Janet's prices appear to be slightly better than AD's. And the AlterYears catalogue has been real handy for giving newbies who come to my sewing circles a chance to see what's available in patterns. Now, at last, a question... Have you made a bustle dress? Which pattern did you use, and would you recommend it again? (Pattern source could be either purchased tissue or book. I've got lots of reference material, but no clear idea of what to choose.) I bought a bustle from AY back at Costume-Con 12, and I have an itch to use it for some fantasy fabric I bought on spec a couple of years ago. (Looking for the right silhouette, even if the wrong fabric... I'm like that a lot.) Gonna try one of those Corsets & Crinolines corsets with the project, if I can get my dressform right. (Remember that discussion about Duct Tape Doubles? Mine's not right after all. Think I'm gonna make a cover out of it, and fit it properly, and stuff *it* with the stuffing instead of the original. Maybe that way it will work right!) Thanks! -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ betsy delaney [18,235]CSuX:(alteryears) Subject: H-COST: [Fwd: AlterYears] From: Betsy Delaney Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:50:47 -0400 -Poster: Betsy Delaney This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EFE2F1FAA62FE34F3104F2FF Forwarded as requested! (Thanks, Ann!) -betsy -- Betsy R. Delaney Webmistress at large ************************************************************************ betsy@hawkeswood.com or betsy@ability.net http://www.hawkeswood.com/, home of Hawkeswood Designs and http://www.Costume-Con.org/, home of Costume-ConNections (If you still have betsy@access.digex.net, change my address *NOW*!) ************************************************************************ --------------EFE2F1FAA62FE34F3104F2FF annbwass@aol.com[24,236]CSuX:alteryears Subject: AlterYears From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:54:43 EDT Please forward this, or summarize it, if you wish. Thanks you for giving us AlterYears' response. I just wanted you to know that I expressed my distress directly with them, not just to the list, or I tried to. They may never have received my communication, because I found that the e-mail address listed on their website was no longer current. I understand that dealing with the small pattern companies can be very frustrating. As I said to them, the most frustrating thing was the total lack of communication. I never did hear from my last fax asking to cancel my order, I guess because, by then, my merchandise was finally on its way--but, as it took two weeks for me to get it, a quick, "We have sent your merchandise" would have been nice. For those of us interested in this field, there just are not that many choices to order from. I hope that AlterYears can continue to be one of the names we can trust. (Nobody on the list has mentioned Harper House, but I gave up on them two years ago when I found their service, or lack of it, to be totally incomprehensible.) Anyway, please relay the message that I, for one, will not give up just yet. Ann Wass --------------EFE2F1FAA62FE34F3104F2FF-- margo anderson [76,237]CSuX:gold rush items Subject: Re: H-COST: Gold Rush items From: Margo Anderson Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:06:23 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson David, thank you very much for all the great information. I can see that this is a subject I'll be studying for a LONG time. I'm finding Gold Rush costume to be fascinating and infuriating. Every diary I read contradicts the one I read before it! For example, one diarist describes going to a dance and says that the ladies attending wore calico dresses, men's boots and a ribbon if they were lucky. Another diarist, writing about a dance the same year in a mining town the same size and 20 miles away, describes ladies wearing elaborate toilettes with short sleeves and low necks, and changing their gowns two and three times during the evening! > >I would recommend that Margo be careful about trying to adapt 1870's levis to >1850's wear. Check the cut. By the 1870's, trousers were lower in the waist, >tighter in the rear and leg than in the 1840's - '50's. Unless these 1870's >levis retained a "retro" cut, you might be better off copying a pair of Gold >Rush era trousers and making them up in canvas. Since Levi Strauss lost their early records in the '06 fire and quake, they don't have the original patterns. Here's what the people at Hamilton Dry goods have to say about their product, which can be seen at: http://www.hamiltondrygoods.com/old73s.html: >The reproduction Levis that we make are made exactly like an old pair of >Levis that we own which were found in an old mining camp in Nevada -- The >Levi Strauss Museum has dated them at 1880's -- They are the oldest known >surviving pair. > >We make these in the same denim fabric used in the originals -- These are >as close as you will ever get to the originals and are appropriate for >1850 - The blue denim would have been used at that time -- We also make >them in other colors of denim. (brown, etc.) and then, in answer to further questions: >As to some of your questions: > >1873 is the date on the rivets -- We will make the pants without rivets or >back pockets. > >All Levis were machine sewn -- Clothing was being made in factories with >sewing machines back to 1830's > >We do the pants in both brown and blue denim > >The original pants were found by the son of a friend of ours in an old >mining camp in Nevada -- The friend gave them to us, because of our >interest in reproducing period clothing. > >The pants have been featured on a segment of "Hunt for Amazing Treasures" >on Learning Channel just this past week. > So, what does everyone think? My own guess, looking at the picture, is that they are too tight in the rear for 1850's. Opinions, please? BTW, this may all end up being moot anyway. It turns out that the park where my husband and I will be docenting wants the docents to dress appropriately for the different buildings, some of which are later period than goldrush. This includes the blacksmith shop where my husband will be working, which is turn of the century. He may end up wearing the 1880's Levis after all, and looking old fashioned. This policy seems hard on the docents, either asking them to make several different costumes or limit themselves to one area, but, one the other hand, it means I'll finally have an excuse to make a bustle dress. Whee! Margo ella lynoure rajamaki [19,238]CSuX:lacing through handmade eyelets Subject: H-COST: lacing through handmade eyelets From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 20:52:48 +2 -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" I just got Jean Hunnisett's Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1800-1909. I haven't had much time to spend on reading it yet, but I already have one question: On page 25 there are instructions how one should lace over each side separately if the corset has handmade eyelets instead of metal ones. What is the purpose of this? It might be done to stretch the eyelets and to keep them open better. Is it an authentic thing to do? -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * vickers, jill [117,239]CSuX:(alter years) handle with asbestos mailreader... Subject: RE: [Fwd: H-COST: Alter Years] Handle with asbestos mailreader... From: "Vickers, Jill" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:42:20 -0700 -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE875E.EE9500A0 My mom placed an order for several patterns a few weeks ago (even after I warned her about the problems other folks were having)and she got them all within a week or so. I think that perhaps as Betsy said below Alter Years is making a comeback and it may be worth giving them another shot. -Jill -----Original Message----- -Poster: "TC Carstensen" Betsy Delaney wrote: >I have to apologize in advance for the following post, to anyone who is >unhappy with me for having done so. What's to apologize for? I appreciated hearing Janet Wilson's explanation about the problems. After having gone through some long streaks of major bad luck myself, I don't find it hard to believe that a lot of things beyond her control all happened around the same time (bad luck seems to attract more bad luck sometimes). And it does sound like she is doing her darnedest to correct the problems that are within her control. Heck, I may send in an order now just as a show of support. It's hard not to take advantage of an excuse to buy patterns! ;) TC Carstensen ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE875E.EE9500A0 RE: [Fwd: H-COST: Alter Years] Handle with asbestos = mailreader...

My mom placed an order for several = patterns a few weeks ago (even after I warned her about the problems = other folks were having)and she got them all within a week or so.  = I think that perhaps as Betsy said below Alter Years is making a = comeback and it may be worth giving them another shot.

-Jill

    -----Original = Message-----

    -Poster: "TC = Carstensen" <eccentri@sprynet.com>

      Betsy Delaney = <betsy@hawkeswood.com> wrote:
    >I have to = apologize in advance for the following post, to anyone who is
    >unhappy with me = for having done so.

    What's to apologize = for?  I appreciated hearing Janet Wilson's explanation
    about the = problems.  After having gone through some long streaks of = major
    bad luck myself, I = don't find it hard to believe that a lot of things beyond
    her control all = happened around the same time (bad luck seems to attract
    more bad luck = sometimes).  And it does sound like she is doing her = darnedest
    to correct the = problems that are within her control.

    Heck, I may send in = an order now just as a show of support.  It's hard not
    to take advantage = of an excuse to buy patterns!  ;)


    TC Carstensen

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE875E.EE9500A0-- merouda the true of bornover [24,240]CSuX:lacing through handmade eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: lacing through handmade eyelets From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:22:15 -0700 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > On page 25 there are instructions how one should lace over > each side separately if the corset has handmade eyelets > instead of metal ones. What is the purpose of this? I don't understand the sentence exactly, but what I think you're saying is that one should lace one tier at a time and not just pull the lacings from the top to get tight. This later method *is* hard on eyelets and even harder on buttonhole stitched eyelets. The lacing rubs against the ridge formed by the buttonhole stitch and wears it out quicker than a simple whip stitched eyelet. Hope that was helpful, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir ella lynoure rajamaki [32,241]CSuX:lacing through handmade eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: lacing through handmade eyelets From: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:55:16 +2 -Poster: "Ella Lynoure Rajamaki" On 15 Apr 99, at 13:22, Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > I don't understand the sentence exactly, but what I think you're > saying is that one should lace one tier at a time and not just pull > the lacings from the top to get tight. No, that's not it. It's really hard to explain it without a picture and I'm not skilled enough with ascii art to make one. That's why I mentioned the page number. It's not really lacing the corset together at all, but lacing through the eyelets and over the edge on each side separately. I suppose the normal lacing would go over this afterwards. > This later method *is* hard on > eyelets and even harder on buttonhole stitched eyelets. The lacing > rubs against the ridge formed by the buttonhole stitch and wears it > out quicker than a simple whip stitched eyelet. But you might have a lead there. The (under-)lacing might be done to smooth the ridge and protect it when this is done! -- -------(c) 1999--------------* lynoure@tuug.org * Ella Lynoure Rajamaki--------* http://www.tuug.org/~lynoure * merouda the true of bornover [24,242]CSuX:lacing through handmade eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: lacing through handmade eyelets From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:02:09 -0700 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > It's not really lacing the corset together at all, but lacing > through the eyelets and over the edge on each side > separately. I suppose the normal lacing would go over this > afterwards. Okay, I think I get it. And yes, I would think it would keep the eyelet, especially 2 pieced grommet eyelets, from pulling through to the edge. > But you might have a lead there. The (under-)lacing might be > done to smooth the ridge and protect it when this is done! Yes, I see it! :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir margo anderson [24,243]CSuX:lacing through handmade eyelets Subject: Re: H-COST: lacing through handmade eyelets From: Margo Anderson Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:23:50 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson >I just got Jean Hunnisett's Period Costume for Stage and >Screen 1800-1909. I haven't had much time to spend on >reading it yet, but I already have one question: > >On page 25 there are instructions how one should lace over >each side separately if the corset has handmade eyelets >instead of metal ones. What is the purpose of this? It might be >done to stretch the eyelets and to keep them open better. Is it >an authentic thing to do? How strange, I just turned on the computer to ask about that very same thing! (insert Twilight Zone music) I don't quite understand how this is supposed to work. There's a picture that shows the lace sort of wrapped over the edge. Are the the laces supposed to loop around each other, or what? Margo j,k,s&a baird [12,244]CSuX:bustle dress Subject: H-COST: bustle dress From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:26:13 -0500 -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" I have made one bustle dress. I made the pattern from Patterns of Fashion 1860-1940, Janet Arnold. I did modify the skirt somewhat. It turned out great--it's worn by a very thin 17 year old. The only thing that gave me any troublewas the cartirdge pleating at the back of the skirt--since I didn't know what cartridge pleats were (now I do). Kim penny ladnier [17,245]CSuX:hong kong trend research Subject: H-COST: Hong Kong Trend Research From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:16:40 -0400 -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" You all are always in need of academic research that is being performed... I just found some online at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, Institute of Clothing and Textiles' website, http://www.itc.polyu.edu.hk/aoepress.htm This is a study they are conducting about blue jeans and the Chinese people. This study does involve the product development stages... They discuss are the dye stuffs, weight of textile, etc. You do have to read through the "academic bull" before you get to the heart of the research. This is one that you want to print and read when you have time. Gee, those stone washed jeans are really STONE washed. Later...Penny megan mchugh [49,246]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings From: "Megan McHugh" Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:35:04 -0400 -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I am interested in a corset or two, as well as possibly stockings. I currently wear about a size 20, if that helps. Let me know when you have any info. Thanks for letting us know. -----Original Message----- From: Susannah Eanes To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among >other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk >stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they >have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an >unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel >pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for >sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in >finding out more, please e-mail me privately. > > >>From: AnnBWass@aol.com >>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >>To: h-costume@indra.com >>Subject: H-COST: silk stockings >>Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 17:20:00 EDT >> >> >>-Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com >> >>Can anyone on the list recommend a source for silk or silk blend >stockings >>for women? I tried the Wintersilks Company, but they, >understandably were >>sold out of the stockings (I guess they are truly a winter product.) >>Thanks. >>Ann Wass >>annbwass@aol.com >> > > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com gothic splendour [40,247]CSuX:shirred chiffon bodice 1950 s ballgown Subject: H-COST: Shirred Chiffon Bodice 1950's Ballgown From: Gothic Splendour Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:33:25 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Gothic Splendour Hi- I'm working on a ballgown for a fashion show which is based on a the look of a 1950's ballgown. I'm planning a fitted bodice over a separate, very full tulle skirt. I have a few questions about the decoration of the bodice & was wondering if some of you might be able to give me an idea of how to approach it. I've constructed a base for the bodice, it is very fitted with a bowed top edge (shaped like the top of a heart with a dip in the middle), it will be fully boned, it has a V point along the bottom front edge dipping about 3 " below the waist. I've bought some beautiful chiffon & want to shirr it in the sort of cross-your-heart style (it should sort of look like a wrap top over the bust)on the bodice. What I'm not sure about is - should the chiffon be cut on the bias? what general shape should the piece of chiffon be (I know I'll have to do some draping but need to have a starting point). I would really like to have the two pieces of chiffon (each covering a breast) come from the side seams to the centre front, then twist around each other & continue back to the sides. On the original 50's dresses where were the openings? at the centre back? or at one side? I would like to be able to hide the closure as much as possible. Also, would it look better to gather the chiffon or pintuck it along the edges of the bodice? As for the tulle skirt, I want it to be very full. Did they tier the layers on the underside (maybe to an inner lining skirt?) on those big puffy skirts or did all of the tulle get gathered into the waistband? I have 14 yards of the double width tulle. Did they wear a crinoline underneath the skirt to make it stand out even more? I keep picturing the glorious canary yellow tulle dress w/ the feather covered bodice that Galliano did a few years ago, it seemed so ethereal & floaty. I'm looking forward to any insight you may have! Thanks Elizabeth seamstrix@juno.com[15,248]CSuX:fabric pattern question Subject: H-COST: Fabric pattern question From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:47:38 -0500 -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Hello Ladies and Gentlemen, I have a question about woven fabric patterns during the last half of the 18th century. Was houndstooth available during this time? Was it fashionable? I have found some terrific dark red and black houndstooth wool which I think is just screaming to be made into a late 18th century riding habit. I don't know if that particular pattern would be correct. It's okay if it's a bit on the masculine side, it's a riding habit after all, I just want to know if it would be appropriate for the period. Karen broneske [43,249]CSuX:gold rush items Subject: RE: H-COST: Gold Rush items From: Broneske Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:57:28 -0700 -Poster: Broneske ------ =_NextPart_000_01BE8726.61E42040 A couple of years ago, I attended a workshop at the Eagle Theater in Old = Sacramento which was put on by a husband and wife team called "Chile N' = Crackers". They had patterns that they had taken from actual garments = for a woman's workdress, man's bib-front shirt, trousers with front = flap, a women's corded petticoat, a calash and a couple of house caps. = The woman also made beautiful reproduction calico buttons. They used to = have a web site, but I couldn't find it again. These items were billed = as "Gold Rush Era" The buttons are sold through Past Patterns = (http://www.thepoint.net/~pastpat/button.html) I do have the address for Chile N' Crackers, it is P.O. Box 442, = Columbia, CA 95310. Phone is 209-588-9513 I have made the corded petticoat and the workdress (It is called = Isabella's Workdress) and I thought they were quite easy to make and = came out quite well. The workdress may have to be altered a bit for = different bodies. I bought the small, which is supposed to fit sizes = 10-12 and it fits me pretty good, except I needed to take in the waist = (especially if you are planning to wear a corset underneath). It is a = basic round dress (?) I think and buttons up the front. It has deep = pockets in each side and it has long, slightly puffed sleeves with cuffs = that button. (closer to late 1830s). Margo, I see that you are in the Tahoe area, not too far from me. I am = in Roseville. Have you been to any of the events in Old Sacramento? I = was an active member of the Old Sacramento Living History Center for a = while and also of the Railroad Museum's Living History program, but have = since dropped out for a while due to things in my personal life, but I = do know that they have events from time to time. I also understand that = they will again be doing the "Gold Rush Tent Town" by the Eagle Theater = on Labor Day weekend. They also have a yearly "Easter Bonnet Parade" = which they held a couple of weekends ago. I didn't attend this year, so = I don't know how it went but it used to be a lot of fun. Joan Broneske merlyncc@aol.com[22,250]CSuX:shirred chiffon bodice 1950 s ballgown Subject: Re: H-COST: Shirred Chiffon Bodice 1950's Ballgown From: Merlyncc@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 09:30:06 EDT -Poster: Merlyncc@aol.com I had a similar blue ballgown in the 50's - that really dates me! I didn't make it, but I remember it well. The bodice was straight at the bottom, not pointed, but pointed ones were fashionable also. It was joined to the skirt at the waist and had a side zipper. It had rows of ruffles under the outer two layers, attached to a taffeta petticoat. If the petticoat wasn't circular, it was at least very full gored (to reduce waistline bulk). And yes, I wore a crinoline petticoat under it. My bodice was shirred tulle similar to your description, except it didn't cross and continue. As I remember it, it was shirred tightly at center front and sideseams, not pleated. The shape was probably closest to two rounded diamond shapes, not too narrow at center front or sides. I had another yellow one that appeared to be straight, with more shirring at sides and center and just spread more over the bust. Good luck! That really brings back prom memories! Priscilla Schmitz susannah eanes [81,251]CSuX:corset survey: before/after? Subject: Re: H-COST: Corset Survey: Before/After? From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:09:34 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Hello all, I now have 14 responses, plus my own to add to the compilation, and so I will be compiling them this weekend and post the results early next week. Thanks to all who responded. Regards, Susannah see original post below (for those of you who missed it) >> >>-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >> >> >>Kind readers of the list, >> >>A conversation off-list got me curious about something, so I thought >I >>would try to compile a private survey based on modern women who are >used >>to corseting on a pretty regular basis --say at the very minimum, at >>least three or more times a month for at least four to five or more >>hours at a time. >> >>If you are interested in participating, please e-mail me privately >with >>the following information: >> >>Your age range --teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and older >>Your time period --1500s, 1600s, 1700s, 1800s, 1900s >>Your modern-day size range --Junior/Petite, Medium/Reg. Misses incl. >>Tall, or Queen >>Your build --small, medium, or large-boned >>Your overall muscle tone --soft, medium, or firmly toned >>Your before corseting waist measurement standing erect with good >posture >>but muscles relaxed (not holding that tummy in!) measured on bare >skin >>Your after corseting waist measurement standing, laced comfortably >for >>normal activities (not to get into that ball gown!) measured over >the >>corset >> >>I will compile the numbers I get and post the results. The premise >is, >>that smaller, more firmly toned people cannot corset down and >compress >>the flesh as much as larger people with softer flesh, so they end up >>with less of a difference between their before and after corset >>measurements than larger people, who can usually have greater >>differences before and after corset measurement. >>I forgot where I read this and wanted to try and see if it holds up >in >>practice. >> >>Thanks for your willingness to participate! >> >>Susannah Eanes >>The Tailor's Measure >> >>"We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William >>Morris >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com hope h. dunlap [115,252]CSuX:shirred chiffon bodice 1950 s ballgown Subject: H-COST: Shirred Chiffon Bodice 1950's Ballgown From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:03:55 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Regarding the bodice, experimental draping should resolve the "look" issues. Gathered was typical for those cross-your heart styles, but tiny pleats are not out of the question, especially if you are large busted and don't need the volume produced by the gathering and twisting of the fabric. Little pleats were more typical around the waist where a slender line was required. My guess is that the draping was typically cut on the grain, as bias-cut material would tend to stretch and droop over time. The 50's was a time of crispness, and firmly structured underpinnings, pertness---droopy was considered quite old-fashioned, as it hearkened back to 30's evening wear. I remember thrift stores being full of the droopy 30's evening wear in the 50's. I think people may have made do with it through the forties, or kept it in the closet hoping it would come back, but in the fifties, it finally hit the rag bag, as it was just all wrong for the spirit of the decade, which placed an emphasis on new-ness. The closure was either side zipper, snaps, or hooks and eyes, OR center back zipper, with a hook and eye at the top of the closure. For the skirt, tulle is too soft to achieve the structural support the big skirt needs. Taffeta and nylon net are the right materials for the supporting petticoats. Tulle or chiffon would be appropriate for the visible skirt. Typically, the petticoat would be taffeta on the part next to your skin, with three rows of overlapping gathered nylon net flounces sewed onto the surface of it. All of that could be sewed into the dress permanently or alternatively made into a separate slip or half-slip to wear with different dresses. Nylon tricot to taffeta would be appropriate for the bodice of the slip. The petticoat/slip waist was often a little below the actual waist in order to achieve a smooth fit at the waist for those dipping front points on bodices. The taffeta was typically nylon for most of us, but on couture wear it was probably silk. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gothic Splendour -Poster: Gothic Splendour Hi- I'm working on a ballgown for a fashion show which is based on a the look of a 1950's ballgown. I'm planning a fitted bodice over a separate, very full tulle skirt. I have a few questions about the decoration of the bodice & was wondering if some of you might be able to give me an idea of how to approach it. I've constructed a base for the bodice, it is very fitted with a bowed top edge (shaped like the top of a heart with a dip in the middle), it will be fully boned, it has a V point along the bottom front edge dipping about 3 " below the waist. I've bought some beautiful chiffon & want to shirr it in the sort of cross-your-heart style (it should sort of look like a wrap top over the bust)on the bodice. What I'm not sure about is - should the chiffon be cut on the bias? what general shape should the piece of chiffon be (I know I'll have to do some draping but need to have a starting point). I would really like to have the two pieces of chiffon (each covering a breast) come from the side seams to the centre front, then twist around each other & continue back to the sides. On the original 50's dresses where were the openings? at the centre back? or at one side? I would like to be able to hide the closure as much as possible. Also, would it look better to gather the chiffon or pintuck it along the edges of the bodice? As for the tulle skirt, I want it to be very full. Did they tier the layers on the underside (maybe to an inner lining skirt?) on those big puffy skirts or did all of the tulle get gathered into the waistband? I have 14 yards of the double width tulle. Did they wear a crinoline underneath the skirt to make it stand out even more? I keep picturing the glorious canary yellow tulle dress w/ the feather covered bodice that Galliano did a few years ago, it seemed so ethereal & floaty. I'm looking forward to any insight you may have! Thanks Elizabeth _____ majordomo@indra.com hope h. dunlap [140,253]CSuX:shirred chiffon bodice 1950 s ballgown Subject: H-COST: Shirred Chiffon Bodice 1950's Ballgown From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:32:56 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Yes, the taffeta underskirt was often shaped to fit the waist without gathers to minimize bulk and to work with those low waisted dresses which were popular then. The gathered flounces typically started a little lower than the waist on petticoats which were meant to be worn with a variety of dresses. That style would accommodate a low waisted dress or a regular waisted dress. I don't know if this was general or just common. My mother always selected such a style for me because of its versatility. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Hope H. Dunlap -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Regarding the bodice, experimental draping should resolve the "look" issues. Gathered was typical for those cross-your heart styles, but tiny pleats are not out of the question, especially if you are large busted and don't need the volume produced by the gathering and twisting of the fabric. Little pleats were more typical around the waist where a slender line was required. My guess is that the draping was typically cut on the grain, as bias-cut material would tend to stretch and droop over time. The 50's was a time of crispness, and firmly structured underpinnings, pertness---droopy was considered quite old-fashioned, as it hearkened back to 30's evening wear. I remember thrift stores being full of the droopy 30's evening wear in the 50's. I think people may have made do with it through the forties, or kept it in the closet hoping it would come back, but in the fifties, it finally hit the rag bag, as it was just all wrong for the spirit of the decade, which placed an emphasis on new-ness. The closure was either side zipper, snaps, or hooks and eyes, OR center back zipper, with a hook and eye at the top of the closure. For the skirt, tulle is too soft to achieve the structural support the big skirt needs. Taffeta and nylon net are the right materials for the supporting petticoats. Tulle or chiffon would be appropriate for the visible skirt. Typically, the petticoat would be taffeta on the part next to your skin, with three rows of overlapping gathered nylon net flounces sewed onto the surface of it. All of that could be sewed into the dress permanently or alternatively made into a separate slip or half-slip to wear with different dresses. Nylon tricot to taffeta would be appropriate for the bodice of the slip. The petticoat/slip waist was often a little below the actual waist in order to achieve a smooth fit at the waist for those dipping front points on bodices. The taffeta was typically nylon for most of us, but on couture wear it was probably silk. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Gothic Splendour -Poster: Gothic Splendour Hi- I'm working on a ballgown for a fashion show which is based on a the look of a 1950's ballgown. I'm planning a fitted bodice over a separate, very full tulle skirt. I have a few questions about the decoration of the bodice & was wondering if some of you might be able to give me an idea of how to approach it. I've constructed a base for the bodice, it is very fitted with a bowed top edge (shaped like the top of a heart with a dip in the middle), it will be fully boned, it has a V point along the bottom front edge dipping about 3 " below the waist. I've bought some beautiful chiffon & want to shirr it in the sort of cross-your-heart style (it should sort of look like a wrap top over the bust)on the bodice. What I'm not sure about is - should the chiffon be cut on the bias? what general shape should the piece of chiffon be (I know I'll have to do some draping but need to have a starting point). I would really like to have the two pieces of chiffon (each covering a breast) come from the side seams to the centre front, then twist around each other & continue back to the sides. On the original 50's dresses where were the openings? at the centre back? or at one side? I would like to be able to hide the closure as much as possible. Also, would it look better to gather the chiffon or pintuck it along the edges of the bodice? As for the tulle skirt, I want it to be very full. Did they tier the layers on the underside (maybe to an inner lining skirt?) on those big puffy skirts or did all of the tulle get gathered into the waistband? I have 14 yards of the double width tulle. Did they wear a crinoline underneath the skirt to make it stand out even more? I keep picturing the glorious canary yellow tulle dress w/ the feather covered bodice that Galliano did a few years ago, it seemed so ethereal & floaty. I'm looking forward to any insight you may have! Thanks Elizabeth _____ majordomo@indra.com _____ majordomo@indra.com sarah toney [14,254]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:39:29 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" I just wanted to let ya'll know... I was looking through the Simplicity patterns book the other day, and found some really great patterns for "medieval" (I use that phrase but I'm not sure it's accurate) dresses and such with the beautiful floor length drop sleeves and also men's shirts. But, they aren't in the costuming section of the book... they're in the "prom" section and have a "historical" symbol on them. Just thought someone may be interested. I know I was. ;-) Sarah, who now has waaaaaaay too many patterns. janice dallas [20,255]CSuX:shirred chiffon bodice 1950 s ballgown Subject: Re: H-COST: Shirred Chiffon Bodice 1950's Ballgown From: Janice Dallas Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:42:32 -0400 -Poster: Janice Dallas As I remember, the zipper was on the side. What is sold as square dance crinolines would do nowadays for the skirt propping. I've also see them used for ballroom dance waltz contestants so ask at a dance supplies shop. I don't remember anyone wearing a "twist" bodice, but I remember shirred chiffon. Cutting on the bias seems sensible. The crinolines were made of paper taffeta, woven horsehair, and a very stiff tulle, such as ballet companies import from England. I think Baer may have carried it. Often there would be a paper taffeta gored base, then a stiff organdy with rows of ruffles, and on top, another smooth,gored, layer of Taffeta, though that could be optional. One of my mother's had a top layer of white with a sheer organdy oval insert at the front hem. Shadow embroidered on this was a rose. It was a very feminine, peek-a-boo touch. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@mediaone.net margo anderson [14,256]CSuX:gold rush items Subject: RE: H-COST: Gold Rush items From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:35:02 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Hi Joan, thanks for the advice. Apparently Chili-n-Crackers no longer has a website but they are still in business. They're on my list of people to call today. I'm not in Tahoe, I'm in Camino, (Apple Hill) just a few miles up the highway from Placerville, which means I'll be close enough to participate in the Sacramento group if we get it going. Margo margo anderson [13,257]CSuX:chrocheted shawls Subject: H-COST: H-cost: Chrocheted shawls From: Margo Anderson Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:43:16 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's? I'm talking about those triangular ones, with or without fringe, that were popular in the early 70's and now seem to be a staple of the beginning reenactor wardrobe. I've seen some very fine knitted ones, but nothing that looks chrocheted to me. (I don't knit or chrochet so it's hard for me to tell.) Margo chindora@aol.com[18,258]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: Chindora@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:04:24 EDT -Poster: Chindora@aol.com I have a question that I am hoping someone can help me with. I just got a bolt of ivory dupion that I am making into a wedding gown and flower girl dresses. I religiously pre-wash before sewing, but the only other time that I ever washed some dupion silk the fabric lost the sheen and luster after it dried. I was told that you should only dry clean dupion for this reason. I have sewn with lots of other silk and never had this problem before, but was told that this fabric has a particular kind of finish on it. Is it really necessary to pre-wash dupion before sewing it, and if so, is there a feasible way to do so without it losing the finish? I really cannot see me taking this 30 yard bolt of fabric to the dry cleaner before starting to sew on it. Thanks! Kimberley albertcat@aol.com[17,259]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:17:52 EDT -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 4/16/99 12:10:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Chindora@aol.com writes: << Is it really necessary to pre-wash dupion before sewing it, and if so, is there a feasible way to do so without it losing the finish? >> I dyed some dupioni and it just went [beautifully] limp & flow-y. It still had that silk look. I wasn't aware that "sheen" was a characteristic of dupioni, it being "rough" so to speak. Anyway, if you steam iron it so it gets really hot, that should get it stricken & abused enough to withstand future dry cleaning without changing the fabric. sarah toney [13,260]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:26:52 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" >> Sarah, who now has waaaaaaay too many patterns. > >You can *never* have too many patterns! ) I just got their 8587. Er..... well... let's see... I have at least 200 different patterns sitting in a box, 75 or so of which I have in every size made! *sigh* Though, I never run out of projects. ;-) i. marc carlson [19,261]CSuX:shoes in history question Subject: H-COST: Shoes in History question From: "I. Marc Carlson" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 11:56:13 -0500 -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" Hi, it's me again. I am trying to find factual evidence of what types of shoes were being worn in Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the Steppes, and the Ancient Far East. Basically, I'm currently out of leads since it appears that no one has dug any up, or bothered to discuss them. However, since I am moving into things beyond my normal areas of research, I may just be missing the literature -- so I am asking for help. Any help. I would prefer archaeology over pictures, contemporary art over something made up for a costuming book, you know - the basic drill :) I'm trying to disprove a hypothesis before I stick my neck out on a major sweeping generalization of shoe history. Thank you for your time. Responses can either come here or to my private email. Marc Carlson lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu kat & kent [22,262]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: Kat & Kent Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:24:56 -0500 -Poster: Kat & Kent Sarah Toney wrote: > > I just wanted to let ya'll know... I was looking through the > Simplicity patterns book the other day, and found some really great > patterns for "medieval" (I use that phrase but I'm not sure it's > accurate) dresses and such with the beautiful floor length drop > sleeves and also men's shirts. But, they aren't in the costuming > section of the book... they're in the "prom" section and have a > "historical" symbol on them. Just thought someone may be interested. > I know I was. ;-) > > Sarah, who now has waaaaaaay too many patterns. You can *never* have too many patterns! ) I just got their 8587. Does anyone know the numbers off hand? JoAnn's will have Simplicity on sale for $0.99 on May 8th! Kat stitchwitch [34,263]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: "StitchWitch" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:50:47 PDT -Poster: "StitchWitch" > I just wanted to let ya'll know... I was looking through the Simplicity > patterns book the other day, and found some really great patterns for > "medieval" (I use that phrase but I'm not sure it's accurate) dresses and > such with the beautiful floor length drop sleeves and also men's shirts. > But, they aren't in the costuming section of the book... they're in the > "prom" section and have a "historical" symbol on them. Just thought someone > may be interested. I know I was. ;-) Yep, saw 'em. They are on my 'to get soon' list. They also have a bustle dress in the costume section, which looks passibly accurate. (The line seems right in the photo, anyway.) > > Sarah, who now has waaaaaaay too many patterns. You are not the only one! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ danielle nunn [20,264]CSuX:byzantine/coptic shoes in history Subject: Re: H-COST: Byzantine/coptic Shoes in History From: Danielle Nunn Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:33:26 -0400 -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I am trying to find factual evidence of what types of shoes were >being worn in Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the >Steppes, and the Ancient Far East. Well, shoes are not my specialty but, the Bata Shoe Museum in Toronto has an extant pair of very lovely coptic (I think) shoes which were cream with burgundy leather (and if I remember correctly some gold work as well). I only saw them briefly but, they were kind of pointy toed with a slit down the middle of the high front part of the shoe. I know the museum has a website. Good luck contacting them. They are very friendly and nice people. Cheers, Danielle aleed [15,265]CSuX:new webpage on french hoods Subject: H-COST: New webpage on French Hoods From: aleed Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:55:30 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: aleed Hey guys, Drea here. I just put up a couple pages on Tudor French hood history, development and construction at: http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/frenchhood.html enjoy! Drea kevin & mara riley [36,266]CSuX:shoes in history question Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question From: Kevin & Mara Riley Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:23:46 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Have you got the book 'The Mummies of Urumchi' by Elizabeth Wayland Barber yet? It's great -- and has early Indo-European clothing, including a few bitf of footwear, I believe. I lent my copy to a co-worker, so I can't look it up right now. The mummies are from the Tocharian peoples in the Takla Makan desert in Western China. Well worth having, IMO -- it's informative and readable. Cheers, Mara On Fri, 16 Apr 1999, I. Marc Carlson wrote: > > -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > > Hi, it's me again. I am trying to find factual evidence of what types of shoes were > being worn in Byzantium, Coptic Egypt, the ancient Near East, the Steppes, and the > Ancient Far East. Basically, I'm currently out of leads since it appears that no one > has dug any up, or bothered to discuss them. However, since I am moving into things > beyond my normal areas of research, I may just be missing the literature -- so I am > asking for help. Any help. I would prefer archaeology over pictures, contemporary > art over something made up for a costuming book, you know - the basic drill :) > > I'm trying to disprove a hypothesis before I stick my neck out on a major sweeping > generalization of shoe history. > > Thank you for your time. Responses can either come here or to my private email. > > Marc Carlson > lib_imc@centum.utulsa.edu > hope greenberg [23,267]CSuX:chrocheted shawls Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Chrocheted shawls From: Hope Greenberg Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:32:48 -0500 -Poster: Hope Greenberg Margo Anderson wrote: > Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's? Paging through 1850s volumes of Godey's Lady's Book, I see plenty of shawls, cloaks, or mantles and lots of crochet projects, but no crocheted shawls. The shawls all seem to be fabric usually with lots of lace and trimming, and the crochet patterns seem to be for things like sleeve borders, table mats and doilies, scarfs, a baby cap, etc.--that is, small accessory or houseware items. That's not to say that crocheted shawls didn't exist, but it does suggest that, if someone is considering making an appropriately period overgarment, a fabric one would be the better bet. (A few samples at Godey's online at http://cit.uvm.edu:6336/dynaweb ) - Hope --------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag vickers, jill [51,268]CSuX:costume college Subject: H-COST: Costume College From: "Vickers, Jill" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:53:10 -0700 -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE8842.C1BD5E60 Can anyone tell me where to find info on the Costume College being held in July in Southern CA? I ran across the link at one time, and now I don't remember where. BTW - I'd appreciate some reviews of this function, since I've never been. My mom and I want to go, but with airfare and hotel and stuff, I want to make sure it's worth our while. Thanks, -Jill ------ =_NextPart_001_01BE8842.C1BD5E60 Costume College

Can anyone = tell me where to find info on the Costume College being held in July in = Southern CA?  I ran across the link at one time, and now I don't = remember where.

BTW - I'd = appreciate some reviews of this function, since I've never been.  = My mom and I want to go, but with airfare and hotel and stuff, I want = to make sure it's worth our while.

Thanks,
-Jill

------ =_NextPart_001_01BE8842.C1BD5E60-- simone89@aol.com[31,269]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: Simone89@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:13:11 EDT -Poster: Simone89@aol.com Kimberly, be very careful about washing Dupioni, some of the new dupioni's are so fine that they disintegrate when washed. I work at a drapery fabric store and we recently had a client wash (by hand) Dupioni that was tagged "dry clean only." She brought in the pitiful shreds for us to see. I would test it carefully because although it might be strong enough to survive one gentle wetting it may not hold up properly afterwards. I recently made a Byzantine for a gentleman using black Dupioni and stressed to him always to wear an undershirt and dry clean the costume. Simone >Chindora@aol.com wrote: >I have a question that I am hoping someone can help me with. I just got a >bolt of ivory dupion that I am making into a wedding gown and flower girl >dresses. I religiously pre-wash before sewing, but the only other time that > I ever washed some dupion silk the fabric lost the sheen and luster after it >dried. I was told that you should only dry clean dupion for this reason. I >have sewn with lots of other silk and never had this problem before, but was >told that this fabric has a particular kind of finish on it. Is it really >necessary to pre-wash dupion before sewing it, and if so, is there a feasible >way to do so without it losing the finish? I really cannot see me taking >this 30 yard bolt of fabric to the dry cleaner before starting to sew on it. >Thanks! >Kimberley kevin & mara riley [27,270]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings From: Kevin & Mara Riley Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:59:41 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Susannah, is that really late 18th-early 19th, or late 19th-early 20th? Mara > -----Original Message----- > From: Susannah Eanes > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:28 AM > Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings > > > > > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > > >I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among > >other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk > >stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they > >have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an > >unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel > >pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for > >sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in > >finding out more, please e-mail me privately. stitchwitch [26,271]CSuX:new webpage on french hoods Subject: Re: H-COST: New webpage on French Hoods From: "StitchWitch" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:04:11 PDT -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Drea here. I just put up a couple pages on Tudor French hood history, > development and construction at: > > http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/frenchhood.html Oh, dear! Now I've no more excuses for not making one. ;) Very, very nice, and thanks! Kate ---- StitchWitch All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ joan m jurancich [42,272]CSuX:chrocheted shawls Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Chrocheted shawls From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:53:20 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:43 AM 04/16/1999 -0800, Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's? I'm talking about those >triangular ones, with or without fringe, that were popular in the early 70's >and now seem to be a staple of the beginning reenactor wardrobe. > >I've seen some very fine knitted ones, but nothing that looks chrocheted to >me. (I don't knit or chrochet so it's hard for me to tell.) > >Margo As best as I can tell from period sources (Godey's, Peterson's, Workwoman's Guide {1838}, The Ladies' Self Instructor in Millinery & Mantua Making, Embroidery & Applique {1853}), the loosely crocheted shawls of the 1970s are not appropriate for the 1850s. The 1970s shawls were often done using very large size crochet hooks and substantial yarn (frequently synthetics that *look* synthetic) and crocheted in extremely open large-scale patterns. The last-named source (which just happened to be handy by the keyboard ) has *no* crocheted shawl patterns at all; the only crocheted items are a gentleman's cap, a muffatee (with a note that the same stitch is good for mittens, baby's shoes, gaiters, gloves, etc.), and a couple of purses. Seems like crochet was considered especially good for fairly small items. The shawls are knitted or netted (one of these years I'll try netting one [yeah, right , just one *more* project]). I would discourage use of *any* crocheted shawl. One can make simple, lovely shawls out of a 60-inch (or even 45-inch) square of nice drapey wool, cotton, or silk (linen is usually too stiff). Either fold (if the fabric is lightweight) or cut (if the fabric is heavier or if one doesn't want or need two layers) the square on the diagonal to make triangular shawls. Fringe the fabric, add fringe, or simply hem the raw edges. Easy enough even for your novices to do. And very good-looking, too. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com susan fatemi [44,273]CSuX:shoes in history question Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes in History question From: Susan Fatemi Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:48:21 -0700 -Poster: Susan Fatemi Kevin & Mara Riley wrote: > > Have you got the book 'The Mummies of Urumchi' by Elizabeth Wayland Barber > yet? It's great -- and has early Indo-European clothing, including a few > bitf of footwear, I believe. I lent my copy to a co-worker, so I can't > look it up right now. The mummies are from the Tocharian peoples in the > Takla Makan desert in Western China. Well worth having, IMO -- it's > informative and readable. > I'd just like to point out that whether they were Tocharian or not is still being debated. It's a reasonable hypothesis, but without any evidence of their language, it's hard to prove. Susan Fatemi p.s. There were 2 tv programs (Nova??) about the Ice Maiden from Siberia (N.W. of where the mummies were found) She was wearing thigh-high leather "stockings". Like boots, but probably not meant for outdoor wear. For comparison, in Uzbekistan (see the lovely big book by that title for pictures) women wore a knee-high leather stocking, with designs on the sole, indoors. To go out of doors, they'd slip their feet into heavy leather shoes with raised soles (not unlike clogs) This is as late as early 20th c. at least. There are lots of pictures of early Chinese shoes. (How early??) The book "Mongol costumes" discusses construction methods, I believe. "When silk was Gold" has pictures of chinese ladies shoes from the T'ang dynasty and Jurchen boots from roughly the same time. Does this help?? -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf annbwass@aol.com[10,274]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:19:58 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I think the "finish" is actually the opposite--the natural gum produced by the silk worm (the worm spins two strands of silk "glued" together.) Some silk has more gum left in it than others and I think that washing would remove some of that. Ann Wass lynn carpenter [34,275]CSuX:crocheted shawl Subject: H-COST: Re: Crocheted shawl From: Lynn Carpenter Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:50:11 -0400 -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Margo Anderson wrote: > >Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's? I'm talking about those >triangular ones, with or without fringe, that were popular in the early 70's >and now seem to be a staple of the beginning reenactor wardrobe. > and Hope Greenberg replied: >Paging through 1850s volumes of Godey's Lady's Book, I see plenty of >shawls, cloaks, or mantles and lots of crochet projects, but no >crocheted shawls. The shawls all seem to be fabric usually with lots of >lace and trimming, and the crochet patterns seem to be for things like >sleeve borders, table mats and doilies, scarfs, a baby cap, etc.--that >is, small accessory or houseware items. Hope, what about *netted* shawls? I have a photocopy of a netted shawl pattern which is supposed to be from Godey's "~1850's". The page # is 392, and the "Materials" list reads "Six ounces of white, six ditto of cerise single Berlin wool; two netting-needles and meshes, one-third and three-fourths of an inch wide." The engraving shows a heavily fringed shawl in broad bands of light and dark. Netted wool would look vaguely like crochet - - my mother made a "broomstick lace" shawl back in the 1970's that has this open texture. And maybe you can date my pattern more precisely. Lynn When I say I'm a "net head", oh! You were talking about the Internet. kristen m. sieber [18,276]CSuX:greek sandals Subject: H-COST: Greek sandals From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:58:07 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" I have a pair of authentic Greek sandals (Pier 1 special). They tie up the calf in the traditional way, but I can't keep them up! I tie them at the top of my calf, but short of totally cutting off my circulation, I just can't keep them from falling down. Any help? Kristen Morgaine Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com franchesca havas [40,277]CSuX:greek sandals Subject: Re: H-COST: Greek sandals From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:02:56 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Speare (sp?) gum? If your legs are very smooth, whether due to soft supple skin or soft slick furry skin, they are going to slip down. In the 70's my favorite pair of pumps had these ties and the only way I kept them up was with clear elastic. They sell it at most fabric places. Ballet artist use it in their costuming. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Kristen M. Sieber To: Historic Costume Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 8:57 PM Subject: H-COST: Greek sandals : :-Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" : :I have a pair of authentic Greek sandals (Pier 1 special). They tie :up the calf in the traditional way, but I can't keep them up! I tie :them at the top of my calf, but short of totally cutting off my :circulation, I just can't keep them from falling down. Any help? : :Kristen Morgaine Sieber :lady_gawain@yahoo.com : : : : :DO YOU YAHOO!? :Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com : : snowfire@mail.snet.net[38,278]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 22:05:05 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net >You can *never* have too many patterns! ) I just got their 8587. >Does anyone know the numbers off hand? JoAnn's will have Simplicity on >sale for $0.99 on May 8th! Ohhhh! I'm going to be away on the 8th! Is it only on that day? I have 8587 too! I just used it to make the man's tunic, a chemise, and the overdress I'd mentioned here on various messages, for EK Coronation last Saturday. It's quite a useful and adaptable pattern isn't it? Also I have Simplicity 8286, which I bought to make a cloak, but the "shoulders" in it make it too modern so I had to re-cut it. Also, I'd have preferred a circular cloak to semi-circular. As I note that the price of a nice woollen cloak is between $80.00 and $120.00 if I buy it from merchants at events, I'll be hunting for another cloak pattern next fall! The dresses and other garments included have some possibilities. There are some useful sleeves, but the cut of the dress they're attached to is altogether wrong, and in general, the garments in this pattern tend to be to "hokey" for me. (Hallowe'en costumes). Also I have McCalls 8826, which depicts more 14th - 15th century style gowns, and McCalls 8449 which has some pieces within it as possibilities (e.g. a gathered neckline chemise), but is more Rennaissance than medieval. BTW once opened, I keep my pattern pieces in ziplock bags, together with the original envelope, so I don't have to scrunch the pieces back into the envelope again! Elysant carol j. bell cannon [6,279]CSuX:simplicity strikes again Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 19:59:27 -0700 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I don't recall which Pattern Co. it was, and better NOT to name it...but there's a rather ugly 'Gates of Hell' in one currently... :-) Carol joan m jurancich [52,280]CSuX:crocheted shawl Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Crocheted shawl From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:43:51 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:50 PM 04/16/1999 -0400, Lynn Carpenter wrote: > >-Poster: Lynn Carpenter > >Margo Anderson wrote: >> >>Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's?[snip] > >and Hope Greenberg replied: > >>Paging through 1850s volumes of Godey's Lady's Book, I see plenty of >>shawls, cloaks, or mantles and lots of crochet projects, but no >>crocheted shawls.[snip] > >Hope, what about *netted* shawls? I have a photocopy of a netted shawl >pattern which is supposed to be from Godey's "~1850's". The page # is 392, >and the "Materials" list reads "Six ounces of white, six ditto of cerise >single Berlin wool; two netting-needles and meshes, one-third and >three-fourths of an inch wide." The engraving shows a heavily fringed >shawl in broad bands of light and dark. Netted wool would look vaguely >like crochet - - my mother made a "broomstick lace" shawl back in the >1970's that has this open texture. > >And maybe you can date my pattern more precisely. > >Lynn >When I say I'm a "net head", oh! You were talking about the Internet. Lynn, Yes, *netted* shawls are period for the 1850s. My facsimile reprint of the 1853 "Ladies' Self Instructor in Millinery & Mantua Making, Embroidery & Applique" has instructions for several netted shawls. The only problem with substituting crochet for netting is that, in hand, netting and crochet really do not resemble each other at all. The easiest way to visualize it is to think a finely-netted fishing net; then compare that to a crocheted net bag. The netting is a single strand knotted around another strand. Crocheting, especially when making net bags, consists of a single strand looped around itself, making a three-stranded "string" (simple chain stitch, of course) with lumps. Now I need to re-teach myself netting. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com joan m jurancich [52,281]CSuX:crocheted shawl Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Crocheted shawl From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 21:43:51 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:50 PM 04/16/1999 -0400, Lynn Carpenter wrote: > >-Poster: Lynn Carpenter > >Margo Anderson wrote: >> >>Are chrocheted shawls period for the 1850's?[snip] > >and Hope Greenberg replied: > >>Paging through 1850s volumes of Godey's Lady's Book, I see plenty of >>shawls, cloaks, or mantles and lots of crochet projects, but no >>crocheted shawls.[snip] > >Hope, what about *netted* shawls? I have a photocopy of a netted shawl >pattern which is supposed to be from Godey's "~1850's". The page # is 392, >and the "Materials" list reads "Six ounces of white, six ditto of cerise >single Berlin wool; two netting-needles and meshes, one-third and >three-fourths of an inch wide." The engraving shows a heavily fringed >shawl in broad bands of light and dark. Netted wool would look vaguely >like crochet - - my mother made a "broomstick lace" shawl back in the >1970's that has this open texture. > >And maybe you can date my pattern more precisely. > >Lynn >When I say I'm a "net head", oh! You were talking about the Internet. Lynn, Yes, *netted* shawls are period for the 1850s. My facsimile reprint of the 1853 "Ladies' Self Instructor in Millinery & Mantua Making, Embroidery & Applique" has instructions for several netted shawls. The only problem with substituting crochet for netting is that, in hand, netting and crochet really do not resemble each other at all. The easiest way to visualize it is to think a finely-netted fishing net; then compare that to a crocheted net bag. The netting is a single strand knotted around another strand. Crocheting, especially when making net bags, consists of a single strand looped around itself, making a three-stranded "string" (simple chain stitch, of course) with lumps. Now I need to re-teach myself netting. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com annbwass@aol.com[7,282]CSuX:greek sandals Subject: Re: H-COST: Greek sandals From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 07:55:47 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com That's "spirit" gum. I was going to suggest it, too. You can buy it at theatrical make-up places. Ann Wass sandyswank@aol.com[35,283]CSuX:simplicity patterns Subject: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Patterns From: Sandyswank@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 14:39:02 EDT -Poster: Sandyswank@aol.com Sarah: Thanks for the info, just picked up some really neat Simplicity medieval patterns for 99 cents a piece locally (leftover Halloween costume patterns). Ones that I thought that could easily be adapted for field garb etc for Pennsic. By the way my philosophy is He who dies with the most patterns and most fabric wins..... Sandy In a message dated 4/16/99 6:42:08 PM EST, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: << Subject: H-COST: Simplicity strikes again - -Poster: "Sarah Toney" I just wanted to let ya'll know... I was looking through the Simplicity patterns book the other day, and found some really great patterns for "medieval" (I use that phrase but I'm not sure it's accurate) dresses and such with the beautiful floor length drop sleeves and also men's shirts. But, they aren't in the costuming section of the book... they're in the "prom" section and have a "historical" symbol on them. Just thought someone may be interested. I know I was. ;-) Sarah, who now has waaaaaaay too many patterns. _____________________________ >> annbwass@aol.com[12,284]CSuX:simplicity patterns Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Patterns From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 16:22:26 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com In a message dated 4/17/1999 2:41:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Sandyswank@aol.com writes: > Simplicity medieval > patterns for 99 cents a piece locally Just an interesting sidelight on these patterns--the designer said she had a little difficulty with Simplicity because they showed cleavage! Ann Wass i. marc carlson [27,285]CSuX:shoes in history question Subject: H-COST: Re: Shoes in History question From: "I. Marc Carlson" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 0:07:28 -0500 -Poster: "I. Marc Carlson" > >...Good luck contacting them. They are very friendly and nice people. Thank you, I will try to contact them. Their web site has very little in actual pictures. > >Have you got the book 'The Mummies of Urumchi' by Elizabeth Wayland Barber >yet?... I took a look at it recently, but don't recall seeing any pictures of shoes. I will see if I can get a hold of it again. Thank you. > >...There are lots of pictures of early Chinese shoes. (How >early??) The book "Mongol costumes" discusses construction >methods, I believe. "When silk was Gold" has pictures of >chinese ladies shoes from the T'ang dynasty and Jurchen >boots from roughly the same time. Thank you, I will see if I can find it. Marc diana h [44,286]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: Diana H Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:07:09 -0700 -Poster: Diana H AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 4/16/99 12:10:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Chindora@aol.com writes: > > << Is it really > necessary to pre-wash dupion before sewing it, and if so, is there a > feasible > way to do so without it losing the finish? >> > > I dyed some dupioni and it just went [beautifully] limp & flow-y. It > still > had that silk look. Be careful about this, though. Depending on what look you want, you may or may not want to wash it. The relative stiffness of the silk will definitely go away if you wash & dry it. You can wash the silk and air dry it, but you still will change the consistancy of the fabric. It seems to me that the stiffness of the unwashed fabric is what you tend to find on wedding dresses and designer suits. I personally like that look and it doesn't need much in the way of lining, either. If you want something drapey and flowey, then wash the bejessus out of the silk. But for anything that needs shape or stiffness, DON'T WASH IT. Hope this helps! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" lynn carpenter [26,287]CSuX:netted shawls Subject: H-COST: Netted shawls From: Lynn Carpenter Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:24:55 -0400 -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Joan M Jurancich wrote: >Yes, *netted* shawls are period for the 1850s. My facsimile reprint of the >1853 "Ladies' Self Instructor in Millinery & Mantua Making, Embroidery & >Applique" has instructions for several netted shawls. > >The only problem with substituting crochet for netting is that, in hand, >netting and crochet really do not resemble each other at all. [snip] > >Now I need to re-teach myself netting. I made a netted scarf using wool Bernat bulky yarn. I agree that crochet and netting look entirely different when you know what you're looking at. But the 1850's are not my focus -- netting is. I *am* curious to date this pattern. My favorite netting site on the web: http://www.the-spa.com/bartholomew/netting/ Lynn (Just finished another "string" netted bag in size 5 perle cotton Saturday) snowfire@mail.snet.net[25,288]CSuX:simplicity patterns Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Patterns From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:46:21 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net > - -Poster: "Sarah Toney" > I just wanted to let ya'll know... I was looking through the Simplicity > patterns book the other day, and found some really great patterns for > "medieval" (I use that phrase but I'm not sure it's accurate) dresses and > such with the beautiful floor length drop sleeves and also men's shirts. > But, they aren't in the costuming section of the book... they're in the > "prom" section and have a "historical" symbol on them. Just thought someone > may be interested. I know I was. ;-) I went to seek them out yesterday at JoAnns (down the street :-) )and you're right! Ooooooohhhhh!!!!! I love the black one with the long sheer sleeves! I wonder what period that would be? 13th C maybe? Also the one with the cross lacing in front? (Sorry didn't copy numbers and I have to wait until they go on sale to pick them up) :-( I'm thinking of making the long sleeved one in a dark strawberry red for the Ladies Champion Tourney next month. My next project!!!!! blissfully, Elysant margo anderson [11,289]CSuX:coming of age Subject: H-COST: H-cost: Coming of age From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 09:32:56 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson When did mid-19th century girls start to dress as adults, putting up their hair and lengthening their skirts? Was there a usually acepted age, or was it just when her mother decided it was time? Or did it have to do with her physical maturity? Margo lois [23,290]CSuX:french costume book on ebay Subject: H-COST: French costume book on ebay From: Lois Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:44:17 +0000 -Poster: Lois I have just enter a great resource book on e-bay. Closes the 25th. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=92708736 Piton's Le Costume Civil en France du XIII au XIX Siecle. 1926. 9" x 11", 380 pp., illus., color plates, decorative hard cover. Great primary source material information. Even greater if you read French. Lois > -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com lois [50,291]CSuX:french costume book on ebay Subject: H-COST: Re: French costume book on ebay From: Lois Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 13:59:12 +0000 -Poster: Lois --------------A7A383D2BDE5B8929E8F5DC3 I should add that I do have a reserve of $45.00 on this book. Lois wrote: > I have just enter a great resource book on e-bay. Closes the 25th. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=92708736 > > Piton's Le Costume Civil en France du XIII au XIX Siecle. 1926. > 9" x 11", 380 pp., illus., color plates, decorative hard cover. > Great primary source material information. Even greater if you read > French. > > Lois > > > > > -- > Lois Mueller > Wooden Porch Books > books@woodenporch.com --------------A7A383D2BDE5B8929E8F5DC3 I should add that I do have a reserve of $45.00 on this book.

Lois wrote:

I have just enter a great resource book on e-bay. Closes the 25th.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=92708736

Piton's Le Costume Civil en France du XIII au XIX Siecle. 1926.
9" x 11", 380 pp., illus., color plates, decorative hard cover.
Great primary source material information. Even greater if you read
French.

Lois

>

--
Lois Mueller
Wooden Porch Books
books@woodenporch.com

--------------A7A383D2BDE5B8929E8F5DC3-- joan m jurancich [27,292]CSuX:french costume book on ebay Subject: Re: H-COST: French costume book on ebay From: Joan M Jurancich Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:00:25 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 12:44 PM 04/18/1999 +0000, Lois wrote: > >-Poster: Lois > >I have just enter a great resource book on e-bay. Closes the 25th. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=92708736 > >Piton's Le Costume Civil en France du XIII au XIX Siecle. 1926. >9" x 11", 380 pp., illus., color plates, decorative hard cover. >Great primary source material information. Even greater if you read >French. > >Lois I have this book and echo Lois's comments. Even I, who can struggle through French only with a French-English dictionary in hand, was able to figure things out. And if you can get it for $100 or less, it's a bargain. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com hope h. dunlap [17,293]CSuX:19th and early 20th century lace Subject: H-COST: 19th and early 20th Century Lace From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 14:22:27 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" This Web Site has some lovely examples of nineteenth and early 20th century laces for sale. Just reading it and looking at the pictures is quite educational regarding appearance and technology and may help those who are facing the task of trimming their historical recreations appropriately. http://www.cherubcomforts.com/antiquelace.html Hope H. Dunlap karen j farris [42,294]CSuX:pre-washing dupion silk Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-washing dupion silk From: Karen J Farris Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 16:39:40 -0400 -Poster: Karen J Farris You're right--if you pre-wash the silk, it will lose its luster and hand. No need to pre-dry-clean it, though, and it makes up beautifully into wedding attire. Karen Farris On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:04:24 EDT Chindora@aol.com writes: > >-Poster: Chindora@aol.com > >I have a question that I am hoping someone can help me with. I just >got a >bolt of ivory dupion that I am making into a wedding gown and flower >girl >dresses. I religiously pre-wash before sewing, but the only other >time that >I ever washed some dupion silk the fabric lost the sheen and luster >after it >dried. I was told that you should only dry clean dupion for this >reason. I >have sewn with lots of other silk and never had this problem before, >but was >told that this fabric has a particular kind of finish on it. Is it >really >necessary to pre-wash dupion before sewing it, and if so, is there a >feasible >way to do so without it losing the finish? I really cannot see me >taking >this 30 yard bolt of fabric to the dry cleaner before starting to sew >on it. > >Thanks! > >Kimberley You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] kyna grannd [45,295]CSuX:simplicity patterns...links etc. Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Patterns...links etc. From: "Kyna Grannd" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:09:12 -0400 -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" The Simplicity patterns came out about the same time as the somewhat atrocious Peasant Garb patterns did (around February or January). They are part of the Begotten line that they came out with. The website calls them "renaissance" now. The first Simplicity books that had them referred to them as "gothic". They are very pretty, really really off construction wise and style wise for history...sort of a mishmash from what I see. Here are the numbers and links: 8623 dress/gown ... makes me think Martha Washington...I'm positive in the movie 1776 some of the characters wore dresses with coats like this ::chuckles:: I like it....maybe with a petticoat under it...maybe if the gown and the false jacket were separate http://www.simplicity.com/852/8623.htm 8619 dress/gown... the black one say modern day Goth to me... if the long sleeve version was in a solid black without the sheer sleeves it would work for Morticia Adams...but also very nice http://www.simplicity.com/852/8619.htm 8502 dress/gown...this one look renaissance sort of...a false lace up front and a leg of mutton style sleeve...would make a cute beginner gown for fairs definitely. http://www.simplicity.com/851/8502.htm 8615 men's shirts ... these have that combo of Errol Flynn and Goth count feel...nice and flowing...the one version is a nice ren fair shirt definitely. http://www.simplicity.com/852/8615.htm I'm by no means an expert, but none of these look good for historical accuracy in the least. They look great for ren fair "play dresses and shirts" though. Oh...and ya...I bought them when I saw them a few months ago ;) ALL of them She who dies with the most patterns and yummy fabric....wins !!! ~Kyna Grannd arcadiacb@aol.com[17,296]CSuX:simplicity pattern Subject: H-COST: Simplicity pattern From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:37:55 EDT -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com That's really scary. It probably is "based" (and I use that term loosely) on a c 1770s gown. Unfortunately, I've seen people wear it for 18th dance programs (always wondered where they came up with an open robe look where the gown was so short--now I know). But then, if you make Simplicity's astronaut costume, you'll look just like a real one and can fly to the moon in it! Fun note--several years ago I picked up an early 20th c pattern (just for the fun of it--not to use) that I thought must be a Little Bo Peep costume--fitted bodice with ruffled sleeves, mid length full skirt with pantaloons with tiers of ruffles them, big open brim sunhat with ribbons. When I opened up the pattern to see how it was made and it said "Colonial Costume." It's nice to see how far we've come in documentation and historical accuracy in costumes! Charlene carol j. bell cannon [11,297]CSuX:simplicity patterns Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Patterns From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 12:45:04 -0700 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Two comments--and a question: I was under the impression that the one with the lovely period sleeves had the wrong neckline [sweetheart] and was too narrow-skirted for Medieval period. I did buy it, with plans to remedy those two 'flaws', however. Oh--and w/o a zipper, of course. :-) A friend who loves the pattern as is wanted to make it that way, but that would be wrong, wouldn't it? Please let me know asap...many thanks, in advance...Gra/inne snowfire@mail.snet.net[29,298]CSuX:simplicity patterns Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Patterns From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:19:50 -0400 -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net -Poster: Jean Holtom > Two comments--and a question: I was under the impression that the >one with the lovely period sleeves had the wrong neckline [sweetheart] and >was too narrow-skirted for Medieval period. I did buy it, with plans to >remedy those two 'flaws', however. Oh--and w/o a zipper, of course. :-) A >friend who loves the pattern as is wanted to make it that way, but that >would be wrong, wouldn't it? Please let me know asap...many thanks, in >advance...Gra/inne Here's my 4 penneth! Basically, I think the Simplicity patterns are good templates, and I really loved the black one! I always have costume books to hand when I'm sewing garb, and would definately adapt the pattern as well as I could to try to make it as authentic as possible (it might not be perfect, but it would be my best shot). Also, I'd look at the pattern pieces as "spare parts" for future ventures, as e.g. a sleeve of one combined with e.g. the body of another might work in some weird way, and be perfect to give me exactly what I had been aiming for. These days I would not use a zipper (although the first dress I made I did use one (Ooooops!). I'd probably try to use another period way of easing the fabric in to fit me as I wanted now. I've yet to try the lacings that have been spoken about on this list of late! Elysant debbie strub [34,299]CSuX:the gilded age Subject: H-COST: The Gilded Age From: debbie strub Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 20:18:00 -0700 -Poster: debbie strub Greetings, For those in the Seattle area interested in Victorian or Edwardian clothing, a new exhibition has just opened in downtown Bremerton that is a must see! The Gilded Age is a vintage clothing exhibit featuring gowns and accessories from the collection of Neil S. Vincent dating from 1860 to 1910, presented by the West Sound Arts Council. The pieces are in excellent condition and are displayed in low lighting to preserve the fragile textiles. However, there is enough light to see clothing details (and take notes!). Some notable garments include: The 1883 "poppy dress" - made of brocade with a poppy design with a black velvet bodice and silk poppies on the neckline and hem. A 1904 dinner gown of opal, silver, blue and black. A 1909 light mourning dinner gown, featuring black matte sequins graduated in size from shoulder to hem. Additionally, there are several cases displaying all manner of accessories including hats & bonnets, gloves, shoes, stockings, fans, and parasols. The exhibit runs from April 10 through May 9, 1999 at 263 4th St. in downtown Bremerton. The building is a few blocks up from the Bremerton ferry terminal. Admission is $4.00. Hours are Wed., Thurs., Sat. 11am - 5pm; Friday 2pm-8pm; Sunday 1pm-5pm. Lectures by Neil Vincent at 2pm on April 11 and April 25. Note: No cameras or strollers allowed. Enjoy! Deb Strub margo anderson [14,300]CSuX:simplicity pattern Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity pattern From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:03:14 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson It's nice to see how far we've come in documentation and >historical accuracy in costumes! I can't seen that we've come that far, at least when we're referring to the Big Three pattern companies. All of their "historical" costumes look dreadful to me. Margo penny ladnier [26,301]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 00:36:17 -0400 -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I was watching "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" tonight. I don't know why I never noticed before that during the opening credits that they were showing the Bayeux Tapestry. I went back and watched the credits again to look at the condition of the tapestry. I want to define if the film's tapestry was a remake or the orginal. I just can't imagine the Bayeux owners to allow someone to place bright lights for filming on such a delicate piece of work. Did anyone hear anything about the tapestry during the filming of this movie? The tapestry shown during the opening credits appeared in excellent condition. If this is a remake, the embroider did a wonderful job. The stitches and spaces appear to be placed in the correct for the original. I am leary of the bright white background in the film version. Most of the photos I have seen of the original, the background is off-white, sometimes yellowed. Has anyone seen the original in person and can comment on the condition of the background? If you have the video, please watch the beginning and let me know your opinions. Has anyone noticed that midway through the film, Marion is embroidering on a "new" panel of the Bayeax Tapestry? Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com margo anderson [12,302]CSuX:skirt supporting corset on ebay Subject: H-COST: Skirt supporting corset on ebay From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 22:16:53 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson There is an original skirt supporting corset on Ebay which appears to be very similar to the Past Pattern. here's the URL:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=91594162 I'm not selling it, just interested and thought others might be, too. Margo the purple elephant [45,303]CSuX:fo - sort of.... Subject: H-COST: FO - sort of.... From: The Purple Elephant Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:09:18 +0930 (CST) -Poster: The Purple Elephant Well I feel the need to boast about the my latest FO, even though it was not really intended as a historical costume. I made it for my sister- -in-law's wedding (which was on Saturday). It was based on the Edwardian suit (circa 1906 I think) pattern given by Norah Waugh in 'The Cut of Women's Clothes 1600-1930', but with different sleeves on the jacket. For those unfamiliar with that, the pattern is for a bolero jacket with a 'corselet' skirt. Since I wasn't intending it for historical wear I made it without a corset or any sort of proper undergarments, though I boned the top of the foundation skirt. I made the suit in purple wool, with the foundation skirt and jacket lining of lilac linen. It's decorated with bands of black velveteen and silver buttons. To go with it I made a blouse of blue-grey lace with a silk lining (the pattern from the lining was also taken from the above book, though I forget which one) - again not exactly accurate, in that I decided to forego the high boned collar. I managed to find real shell buttons, very very small ones for the blouse. To go with it I decorated a hat with lots of fake blue, red and purple flowers and a big purple bow. Now I just have to wait and see how the photos turn out.... Anyway, the reason it's only sort of an FO is that I didn't quite finish it in time (we moved about three weeks ago and I lost my sewing machine cord - pretty much everyhting but the blouse got done in the last two weeks). I didn't get to sew the velveteen bands on the skirt, and only the functional buttons got to be sewn on. Also my grand tradition of wearing stuff for the first time unhemmed was continued *grin* This was quite possibly one of the most complex things I've made to date and I was quite pleased with the way it turned out (when you put a 4 piece jacket and six piece facing together and they match exactly it's hard not to be self congratulatory *grin*). There was some cursing over pieces sewn together wrongly at frightful hours, but generally it was well-behaved. Still, I'm glad it's done....now, back to the 15th century :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ arcadiacb@aol.com[20,304]CSuX:simplicity pattern Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity pattern From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:05:31 EDT -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Not the "regular" pattern companies, but people who actually do research and draft from originals so that there are accurate pattens for use. But unfortunately, I've seen far too many "Halloween costume" pattterns used for "ye olde looke" by people and at places where they should try for accuracy. I "practice" with an English country dance group locally (and have for over 12 years) but will not "perform" with them (again use that loosely) since the first time I did and saw their costumes (in the modern Simplicity patttern term), modern hair and glasses, etc. They've been doing it since the Bicenntennial and have no desire to change--but a few newer people have noticed my clothes and asked info and have actually made stays and correct clothing. If only the Simplicity pattern ones would stay at purely social functions and not step into the world of performances and museums who of course don't know when they ask these people to do performances and the group says they are historically accurate. I just don't want to be seen with them in public in those clothes. Nice people, but totally clueless. Charlene susannah eanes [51,305]CSuX:silk stockings Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:11:48 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Dear Kevin & Mara, Did you see my later post, correcting this message? I was excited, and in a hurry. The stock is c. 1890 - 1940. Susannah >From: Kevin & Mara Riley >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings >Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 14:59:41 -0400 (EDT) > > >-Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > >Susannah, is that really late 18th-early 19th, or late 19th-early 20th? > >Mara > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Susannah Eanes >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:28 AM >> Subject: Re: H-COST: silk stockings >> >> >> > >> >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >> > >> >I have access to the inventory of an old store that contains, among >> >other wonderful things, original late 18th - early 19th c. silk >> >stockings & corsets in their original boxes. I don't know how they >> >have stood up to the decades of being stored away in an >> >unheated/uncooled store attic warehouse, but they sure look & feel >> >pretty good to me. The owner is currently assessing these items for >> >sale either in lots or as one whole. If anyone is interested in >> >finding out more, please e-mail me privately. > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com hope greenberg [27,306]CSuX:crocheted shawl Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Crocheted shawl From: Hope Greenberg Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:52:40 -0500 -Poster: Hope Greenberg Lynn Carpenter wrote: > Hope, what about *netted* shawls? I have a photocopy of a netted shawl > pattern which is supposed to be from Godey's "~1850's". The page # is 392, > > And maybe you can date my pattern more precisely. Hi - I can't date it precisely as I don't have all the volumes for the 1850s :-( sigh But I can help you narrow it down a bit. It's not in any of the following: Jan-June 1852, July-Dec 1855, Jan-June 1856, all of 1857, all of 1858 March and April 1857 have a two-part article on how to do netting which includes several different netting designs, but does not indicate what you would actually make with the netting. Not much help I'm afraid... - Hope ---------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vermont, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag cindy abel [49,307]CSuX:exibit of princess diana s dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: EXIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES From: "Cindy Abel" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:18:19 +0000 -Poster: "Cindy Abel" Friday I went to the Western Heritage Museum here in Omaha to see the touring exibit of 20 of the 80 dresses Princess Diana had auctioned in 1997. Included are the so-called "Travolta dress"(the ink blue dress she wore to the White House), the pink two-piece silk with very complicated embroidery, the two sheath dresses she wore to the two-day auction itself, and the green sequin"mermaid" dress. Because the weather was so horrid, it wasn't crowded and I was able to check out most of the dresses from all angles making mental notes since photographs were banned, of course, and also any sketching or notes. Because of the properly controlled lighting, it was hard to pick up details(seaming especially) on the darker gowns, but the cut, construction and details on most of the gowns are things that never show up in photographs(sleeves cut more on a 19th century line as they are two-piece and have the slightest curve to follow the natural curve of the arm)and most seams and darts on the gowns follow the body(such as you can have when you have the $$ or the time and skill for custom made clothes!) There was a catalog and other goodies to buy, but moi is currently low on cash and what I would have preferred of course, would have been a book on the design, fabric history, and actual construction of the gowns. Any expert on the list interested in getting the rights to do such a project? I will shortly be doing a Princess Diana doll in porcelain--my teacher finally found a mold where the sculpt really looks like her--and several of us in class will be making it. A few have started and the original artist has patterns for the "Travolta" dress and a two-piece dress and jacket in bright pink satin. Some classmates want me to do the wedding dress(very easy to research, at least), but I'm leaning towards a 1880's style dress she wore in Canada, I think on a 1983 tour. I think the original was a cream silk or satin with a little pancake-shaped hat she wore in honor of Yukon days or whatever it was called. I can't remember where I saw the picture but it stuck in my mind because of the historic style of the dress. I will have to go to our local main library who has the older issues in hardcopy of "Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature" in order to find some articles. But does anyone on the list have any hints on where I might find photographs of this dress? It looks as if there are going to be lots of this particular Diana doll at our local show in September(I can imagine it now--"Dueling Dianas at Doll Show")and I want to combine my interest in historic costume and desire to do something different from everyone else. Plus I have a reputation to keep up--I'm getting known for doing a doll differently from everyone else! Don't know if that's good or bad! susannah eanes [29,308]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:35:12 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Kind readers: Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? ??? And did her accent seem incredibly Scottish for someone purporting to be a Duchess residing in London? I know she was actually an actress portraying a Duchess, but did they mean to pick a Scottish actress to portray the actress portraying a Duchess? How stupid do they think we are? The men's costuming by and large seems to be superb, given my limited knowledge of maritime garments. Did they screw up on the ladies' attire, or am I just totally wrong on the time period being portrayed? I haven't read the C.S. Forester novel, btw. Maybe if I had, I could answer my own questions. If anyone has any insight into this puzzle, please let me know. Susannah Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com m311@aol.com[17,309]CSuX:exibit of princess diana s dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: EXIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES From: M311@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:43:01 EDT -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 4/19/99 10:18:53 AM Central Daylight Time, Cindy.Abel@creighton.edu writes: << 'm leaning towards a 1880's style dress she wore in Canada, I think on a 1983 tour. >> Yes, I thought it sounded familar. I have a couple of picture books on her. I found it in the one. It is in the book: Diana Princess of Wales- A Tribute by Tim Graham --Welcome Rain, New York, New York, ISBN #1-56649-599-7 It shows the front and part of the side plus the bag and gloves. You can see the boots also. It is on page 39. I hope that helps. Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com cynthia virtue [29,310]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: Cynthia Virtue Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:05:25 -0400 -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I saw the tapestry about a year ago. The background is sorta cream-colored -- but I would expect that professional film people could correct the color once it was filmed. Likewise they could have access to very low-light film so that they could film with the conservation lights only. The two things I'd look for to decide if the film version is real or not -- I'm no expert, however: 1. are all border figures finished. The original's border figures are not evenly spaced, some only partially finished. There are figures that are only outlined and never filled in with stitching. The very first panel has an unfinished left border. 2. if it shows the end (extreme right edge) as a finished pice with a border, it's not original. The original cuts off in the middle of a scene with horses, before William is crowned. The tapestry museum theorized that the tapestry was at least long enough to show his crowning, since the rest of it seems to be somewhat justifying his invasion, it would make sense to end the story at his coronation. -- Cynthia Virtue, theobromian =-=-=-=-= Easy medieval hats for everyone! http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/ david w. rickman [77,311]CSuX:old blue jeans Subject: H-COST: Old blue jeans From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 99 10:10:22 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Margo wrote: > I'm finding Gold Rush costume to be fascinating and infuriating. Every >diary I read contradicts the one I read before it! For example, one diarist >describes going to a dance and says that the ladies attending wore calico >dresses, men's boots and a ribbon if they were lucky. Another diarist, >writing about a dance the same year in a mining town the same size and 20 >miles away, describes ladies wearing elaborate toilettes with short sleeves >and low necks, and changing their gowns two and three times during the >evening! I understand the frustration. The economic history of the California Gold Rush, and its impact on the clothing worn there, has yet to be written - and I am not the person to do it, either. However, to interpret the Gold Rush in costume that is accurate needn't be all that difficult. Any town that was established enough to have buildings still standing that you are interpreting today, was not a town that was experiencing shortages. It had supply routes well established to bring in building materials (and therefore any other products the settlers wanted), and it had an economic system well-enough founded that the citizens could pay for whatever was imported. The real times of shortages and strange contrasts like the one described above, are likely to have happened early on in the Gold Rush, when everything was still up in the air. To my knowlege, there are no sites in California that can interpret that period - because the buildings were all temporarty: tents, log cabins, lean-tos and rough frame structures. Look at the photos. Whenever a picture is taken in a town that is a town - with a main street and three or four substantial buildings, the women are decently dressed. I am curious about this changing gowns two and three times during the evening. Why would they do this? Pure ostentation? I am reminded of a well-known story from the Gold Rush. The Rush, to begin with, was a largely all-male phenomenon. Women, especially white women, were extraordinarily rare in the early Gold Fields (prior to the 1850's). One day a group of miners found the baggage of an emigrant wagon that had been tossed out to lighten the load going over the mountains. In the baggage the miners found a woman's dress and bonnet. It had been so long since these men had seen a white woman that they set up a post and hung the dress on it, topping it off with a bonnet. They then held a "war dance" around the effigy, in celebration of all their memories, hopes and aspirations about the women they had left at home. I repeat this story because I find it sweet, but it is also indicative of just how rare white women were in the early mines. The probability is that the site Margo is interpreting dates from a period and location in the Gold Rush where things were well-established enough that women were fairly well clad. >The reproduction Levis that we make are made exactly like an old pair of >Levis that we own which were found in an old mining camp in Nevada -- The >Levi Strauss Museum has dated them at 1880's -- They are the oldest known >surviving pair. > >We make these in the same denim fabric used in the originals -- These are >as close as you will ever get to the originals and are appropriate for >1850 - The blue denim would have been used at that time -- We also make >them in other colors of denim. (brown, etc.) No, I don't think so. I think we can do much better. I took a look at the pants this company offers and, while you may never do better for interpreting the 1880's, you could not do much worse for interpreting the Gold Rush. Clearly these pants are cut much more slimly than the 1850's, and that rear rise is positively tight. Since you are not sure that you are going to need Gold Rush pants, Margo, I won't do more than say that if anyone _is_ interested in the proper cut for these, Jim Miller in Columbia could probably help you. I also have photos from the Old Sturbridge Village collection of those brown linen trousers that might help as well. By the way, I didn't see anything on this website that is appropriate for the Gold Rush. Be careful. David david w. rickman [30,312]CSuX:gold rush Subject: H-COST: Gold Rush From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 99 10:32:10 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Joan Broneske wrote: >A couple of years ago, I attended a workshop at the Eagle Theater in Old = >Sacramento which was put on by a husband and wife team called "Chile N' = >Crackers". They had patterns that they had taken from actual garments = >for a woman's workdress, man's bib-front shirt, trousers with front = >flap, a women's corded petticoat, a calash and a couple of house caps. = >The woman also made beautiful reproduction calico buttons. They used to = >have a web site, but I couldn't find it again. These items were billed = >as "Gold Rush Era" >The buttons are sold through Past Patterns = >(http://www.thepoint.net/~pastpat/button.html) >I do have the address for Chile N' Crackers, it is P.O. Box 442, = >Columbia, CA 95310. Phone is 209-588-9513 Chil N' Crackers is the business owned by my friends Jim and Lindy Miller. I do recommend that you talk with them about your Gold Rush living history projects. They are wonderful people and very knowlegeable. David franchesca havas [34,313]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:11:03 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I will look at the movie later tonight but I do know that there are members of the SCA that have reconstructed selected panels of this tapestry in the Texas Oklahoma area. I saw one once and thought it was just a print of it only to find out that it was a reconstruction. It was beautiful. I was told that several ladies had sat down one summer and did panels together, kinda like a quilting circle. The movie folks either had the real one actually filmed with highly specialized film, which with Mr. big bucks Kevin Costner as a member of the production team it is quite likely, or they had a team of people reconstruct one for the production. If the film was used of the original there is technology that can do the very thing we see in this movie. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier To: h-costume Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 11:38 PM Subject: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry : :-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" : :I was watching "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" tonight. I don't know why I :never noticed before that during the opening credits that they were showing :the Bayeux Tapestry jean waddie [39,314]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: Jean Waddie Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:52:04 +0100 -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <000101be8a1e$2d2e17c0$5a3daccf@costume>, Penny Ladnier writes > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I was watching "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves" tonight. I don't know why I >never noticed before that during the opening credits that they were showing >the Bayeux Tapestry. I went back and watched the credits again to look at >the condition of the tapestry. I want to define if the film's tapestry was a >remake or the orginal. I just can't imagine the Bayeux owners to allow >someone to place bright lights for filming on such a delicate piece of work. >Did anyone hear anything about the tapestry during the filming of this >movie? The tapestry shown during the opening credits appeared in excellent >condition. If this is a remake, the embroider did a wonderful job. The >stitches and spaces appear to be placed in the correct for the original. I >am leary of the bright white background in the film version. Most of the >photos I have seen of the original, the background is off-white, sometimes >yellowed. Has anyone seen the original in person and can comment on the >condition of the background? If you have the video, please watch the >beginning and let me know your opinions. > >Has anyone noticed that midway through the film, Marion is embroidering on a >"new" panel of the Bayeax Tapestry? > >Later...Penny >http://www.costumegallery.com > I think there is a replica of the Bayeux tapestry at Hastings or Battle Abbey. It was made fairly recently - in the last 15-20 years I think. Any embroidery buffs remember it being on the news? Maybe the film makers were allowed to use that. Jean -- Jean Waddie agottfre@telusplanet.net (angela gottfred)[35,315]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: RE: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:19:20 -0600 -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) "Susannah Eanes" wrote: > Why did it seem on >last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that >the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and >early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? I thought she should have been wearing Empire dresses; she was portraying a Duchess, & was really an actress--either way, she should have been 'fashionably dressed'. As for the date, the intro said 1790's, I believe, and the show didn't take place over much more than a single year. >And did her accent seem incredibly Scottish for someone purporting to >be a Duchess residing in London? I wouldn't have called the accent Scottish, myself; she said that she was the daughter of the Duke's 'mill' (plant) manager, which accounted for the lower-class accent & manners. When she wasn't 'playing' the Duchess, she dropped the accent. (E.g. the last few scenes of her & HH together.) >I haven't read the C.S. Forester novel, btw. Maybe if I had, I could >answer my own questions. No, if you had, you'd have turned off the TV halfway through. My husband has been re-reading the books, and that's what he did. They've crammed several decent stories into one movie, and dramatically re-arranged the plot & 'jazzed up' the characters so that Forester fans must surely be pulling their hair out. The characterization of HH in the movies isn't nearly as complete as in the novels. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net margo anderson [38,316]CSuX:old blue jeans Subject: Re: H-COST: Old blue jeans From: Margo Anderson Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:27:28 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:10 AM 4/19/99 EDT, you wrote: >I understand the frustration. The economic history of the California Gold >Rush, and its impact on the clothing worn there, has yet to be written - and I >am not the person to do it, either. Well, if I continue to be as fascinated as I am, I can see doing that book...in about 20 years. > >I am curious about this changing gowns two and three times during the evening. >Why would they do this? Pure ostentation? Probably. Here's the relevant quote, from A Buckeye in the land of Gold, Letters and jounals of William Dennison Bickham; describing a ball at Pilot Hill on Feb. 15, 1851: "Mrs G. appeared in the ball room during the evening with three different dresses, Miss L. with two changes was content. Huzzah for California." Bickham is a good source for clothing, even describing ladies' dresses in detail, which one might expect of a man with four sisters. As for Hamilton Dry Good's Levi's, I was afraid of that. I would like to tell the list members, however, that these people appear to give excellent service, answering numerous emails in detail and even emailing me to check up on me when I hadn't talked to them in a while. Margo Anderson janice dallas [11,317]CSuX:costume college Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College From: Janice Dallas Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:44:50 -0400 -Poster: Janice Dallas Jill, The web-site for Costume College is at members.aol.com/ccollege99. It's July 23-25, 1999. We fly in from Boston and consider it definitely worth the trip. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@mediaone.net margo anderson [31,318]CSuX:old blue jeans Subject: Re: H-COST: Old blue jeans From: Margo Anderson Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:15:47 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Here's the relevant quote, from A Buckeye in the land of Gold, >Letters and jounals of William Dennison Bickham; describing a ball at Pilot >Hill on Feb. 15, 1851: > >"Mrs G. appeared in the ball room during the evening with three different >dresses, Miss L. with two changes was content. Huzzah for California." > Whoops! I just went back and read the whole section in the book, not the reference card I'd written. What I missed here is that Mrs G, a widow, and Miss L have just been married at this ball, "in the Morman rite". One assumes they were married to men, (or to one man, it being a Morman rite at the time of polygamy) not to each other. At any rate, the fact that we're talking about their weddings makes a difference. I'm still wondering what they wore. Since the wedding was at the ball with gentiles present, it wouldn't have been their temple garments, and since Mrs G was a widow, I'm guessing she didn't wear a bridal veil. Maybe they were just showing off their troussoux? I can see that I'm going to have to research Morman clothing, too, if I'm going to make an intense study of the Gold Rush. One refererence I found described Morman men with long hair "tied up in ribbons like ladies"! Charging off in all directions, Margo vincent ho [27,319]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: Re: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: Vincent Ho Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:30:00 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: Vincent Ho On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Susannah Eanes wrote: > > -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > Kind readers: > > Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on > last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that > the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and > early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? It was in 1793, or shortly thereafter. -- Vincent B. Ho hbv@tsoft.com -- Flow my tears, fall from your springs, Exiled forever: Let me mourn where night's black bird her sad infamy sings, there let me live forlorn. --John Dowland (2nd book of Songs or Ayres, 1600) sylvia rognstad [17,320]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: Re: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: Sylvia Rognstad Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:58:46 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: Sylvia Rognstad > > -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > > Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on > last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that > the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and > early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? I havent seen last night's episode yet, but I recall that the time specified for episode I was 1793. I dont know how much time is supposed to have elapsed by now. And YES, there's a man! Sylvia R merouda the true of bornover [20,321]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: Merouda the True of Bornover Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 11:37:43 -0700 -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I think there is a replica of the Bayeux tapestry at Hastings or Battle > Abbey. It was made fairly recently - in the last 15-20 years I think. > Any embroidery buffs remember it being on the news? Maybe the film > makers were allowed to use that. What I remember was that someone *completed* the Tapestry as accurately as possible. Not that a new one or a duplicate was made but that the final scene was completed. The tapestry itself (not really a tapestry but an embroidery) is kept in Reading I am told. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir susan carroll-clark [17,322]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:40:04 -0400 -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! There is a professor at an Ontario university (can't remember now whether it's Laurier, Waterloo, or Guelph) who has stitched a complete replica of the tapestry, including "completing" the final scene. He did it over about 10 years, essentially for fun, and last I heard, it was touring Canada. It's a little smaller than actual size, but is extremely cool (I've seen it, and the work is beautiful). I'll sniff around and see if I can find more info. Susan Carroll-Clark s.b. mcdaniel [30,323]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: H-COST: Re: H. Hornblower on A&E From: "S.B. McDaniel" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:44:12 +0000 -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" >From the context, the action in last night's movie would be taking place in about 1795. I know very little about 18th c. dress, but my friend who watched it with me claims the "duchess" was pretty well dressed for the period. She had done a good deal of 18th c. reenactment, and is fairly knowlegable. On the accent: The character was an actress spying for the English, posing as a north country mill owner's daughter who had married a duke. Her accent was not Scottish, but the appropriate accent for such a woman. When the actress/spy dropped her impersonation she spoke in a middle class London accent. Cheri Lunghi is a wonderful and skilled actress whom I thought did a perfect job in this role. Sandy "Susannah Eanes" wrote: > Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on > last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that > the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and > early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? > ??? > And did her accent seem incredibly Scottish for someone purporting to > be a Duchess residing in London? I know she was actually an actress > portraying a Duchess, but did they mean to pick a Scottish actress to > portray the actress portraying a Duchess? How stupid do they think > we are? alikhat [33,324]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: Re: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: Alikhat Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:48:11 -0700 -Poster: Alikhat At 08:35 AM 4/19/99 PDT, Susannah Eanes wrote: >Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on >last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that >the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and >early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? The story is set in the early 1790's, and yes, I noticed that her fashions wandered a bit, too. Perhaps that was intentional, though, since her character was an actress *pretending* to be a Duchess and her clothes might just be costumes from plays she'd been in. >And did her accent seem incredibly Scottish for someone purporting to >be a Duchess residing in London? I know she was actually an actress >portraying a Duchess, but did they mean to pick a Scottish actress to >portray the actress portraying a Duchess? How stupid do they think >we are? The accent was Yorkshire, actually. And as much as it annoyed me, too, it was clearly intentional, as she dropped it in favor of a nice, stately BBC-British accent as soon as she "dropped character". To an American ear, the latter may sound far more regal, but she did say that the Duchess was a real person, so perhaps the idea was that she would speak with the accent of the region she came from. Just a thought, anyway. Alikhat stitchwitch [32,325]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "StitchWitch" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:52:45 PDT -Poster: "StitchWitch" > There is a professor at an Ontario university (can't remember now whether > it's Laurier, Waterloo, or Guelph) who has stitched a complete replica of > the tapestry, including "completing" the final scene. He did it over about > 10 years, essentially for fun, and last I heard, it was touring Canada. > It's a little smaller than actual size, but is extremely cool (I've seen it, > and the work is beautiful). > > I'll sniff around and see if I can find more info. > > Susan Carroll-Clark Might there possibly be a website for this newer working? I'd love to see it, if at all possible! Kate ---- StitchWitch All things are possible until they are proved impossible - and even the impossible may only be so, as of now. - Pearl S. Buck Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/ r.l. shep [19,326]CSuX:symposium report Subject: H-COST: Symposium Report From: "R.L. Shep" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 16:15:08 -0700 -Poster: "R.L. Shep" The first Triannual R.L. Shep Symposium on Textiles on Dress took place this last weekend at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art in the Bing Auditorium. All I can say is that it exceeded my expectations - and the audience, which was quite substantial, was very enthusied by the talks that were given. The Theme was *Dress as Transformation* which was explored in terms of both historical dress and ethnic dress. And the speakers were leaders in their fields rom all over this country and even one from England. To all of you who missed it, we hope to publish the proceedings later this year. The NEXT Symposium will take place on 15 December 2002 in conjunction with the opening of a large exhibit of Noh Costumes at LACMA and will center around this theme. Mark you calendars! ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks michel mccabe [22,327]CSuX:opinions, do you have any Subject: H-COST: Opinions, do you have any From: Michel McCabe Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:18:36 -0400 -Poster: Michel McCabe The current "issue" for the Edward Hamilton Bookseller has several possibly useful books listed, A Pictorial History of Costume Edited by Dorine van den Beukel, published at $29.95, listed at $ 19.95 Fashion Design 1850-1895 published at $29.95, listed at $ 19.95 Dress & Decoration of the Middle Ages by Henry Shaw "orig published in 1858" this seems to be a soft cover repro of the original - $14.95 anyone familiar with these ron carnegie [39,328]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: H. Hornblower on A&E From: Ron Carnegie Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:47:00 -0400 -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:44 PM 4/19/99 +0000, you wrote: > >-Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" > >>From the context, the action in last night's movie would be taking place >in about 1795. I know very little about 18th c. dress, but my friend who >watched it with me claims the "duchess" was pretty well dressed for the >period. She had done a good deal of 18th c. reenactment, and is fairly >knowlegable. > >On the accent: The character was an actress spying for the English, >posing as a north country mill owner's daughter who had married a duke. >Her accent was not Scottish, but the appropriate accent for such a >woman. When the actress/spy dropped her impersonation she spoke in a >middle class London accent. Cheri Lunghi is a wonderful and skilled >actress whom I thought did a perfect job in this role. > >Sandy I re-watched it tonight, and the accent sounds North Country to me, not Scottish. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* heather [13,329]CSuX:o.t. "which heather?" Subject: H-COST: O.T. "Which Heather?" From: heather Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 14:38:00 -0700 -Poster: heather Sorry for the o.t. stuff, but some folks seem to be confused by posts from "lynnx@mc.net"; understandable. There are 2 of us using this addy, me (Heather, name on the email addy) and Carol Mitchell, who originally subscribed us to this list. To deconfuse, look at the signature *below* the post. Thanks, Heather carol j. bell cannon [30,330]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:42:20 -0700 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" One group in the SCA completed a copy of the Bayeux tapestry a few years ago, but I do not recall which group. -- Carol At 11:37 AM 4/19/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >> I think there is a replica of the Bayeux tapestry at Hastings or Battle >> Abbey. It was made fairly recently - in the last 15-20 years I think. >> Any embroidery buffs remember it being on the news? Maybe the film >> makers were allowed to use that. > >What I remember was that someone *completed* the Tapestry as accurately as >possible. Not that a new one or a duplicate was made but that the final scene >was completed. The tapestry itself (not really a tapestry but an embroidery) is >kept in Reading I am told. >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > appin1@aol.com[13,331]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: Appin1@aol.com Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:46:45 EDT -Poster: Appin1@aol.com If I remember correctly, in one of the "Henry II movies" (I can't recall if it was "Becket" or "Lion in Winter", since Peter O'Toole played Henry in both), probably "Becket" there is a scene that shows Henry's mohter, the Empress Matilda, embroidering -- the Bayeux Tapestry! I laughed. Kathleen Norvell "How many costumes do you think I can pack?" --"Start the Revolution Without Me" pierre & sandy pettinger [70,332]CSuX:diana dress exhibit Subject: H-COST: Re: Diana dress exhibit From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 23:43:42 -0500 -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger We went to see this exhibit Saturday, and happened to run into a couple of friends there, so there were four of us leaning as close to the glass as we could get, taking mental notes. One could even occasionally see one of us on our hands and knees, looking at hem details. We spent about an hour+ there, trying to determine where the seams went, if there was boning, other construction and trimming details, etc. Our favorites were the burgundy velvet sheath dress with tailcoat, and the pink wild silk with the Mughal-style embroidery on bodice and jacket. We bought all three books that were for sale: the exhibit catalog, one titled "Dressing Diana", and one about the designer Catherine Walker. Some time ago we found another book (at Sam's Club, of all places) called "Diana: Her Life in Fashion". Author is Georgina Howell, publisher Rizzoli International, c. 1998, ISBN 0-8478-2137-4. It's more or less a chronological biography of her wardrobe, the things that makes it interesting are the back views, designer's sketches, and extreme closeups of embroidery and beadwork. Also in the back is a complete listing of the lots for Christie's auction. Unfortunately, not all are pictured, but several are. Cindy, not sure if the one you are interested in is in there or not - couldn't place it from your brief description. Absolutely enjoyed the exhibit! Pierre and Sandy >- -Poster: "Cindy Abel" > >Friday I went to the Western Heritage Museum here in Omaha to see the >touring exibit of 20 of the 80 dresses Princess Diana had auctioned >in 1997. Included are the so-called "Travolta dress"(the ink blue >dress she wore to the White House), the pink two-piece silk with very >complicated embroidery, the two sheath dresses she wore to the >two-day auction itself, and the green sequin"mermaid" dress. Because >the weather was so horrid, it wasn't crowded and I was able to check >out most of the dresses from all angles making mental notes since >photographs were banned, of course, and also any sketching or notes. >Because of the properly controlled lighting, it was hard to pick up >details(seaming especially) on the darker gowns, but the cut, >construction and details on most of the gowns are things that never >show up in photographs(sleeves cut more on a 19th century line as >they are two-piece and have the slightest curve to follow the natural >curve of the arm)and most seams and darts on the gowns follow the >body(such as you can have when you have the $$ or the time and skill >for custom made clothes!) > >There was a catalog and other goodies to buy, but moi is currently >low on cash and what I would have preferred of course, would have >been a book on the design, fabric history, and actual construction of >the gowns. Any expert on the list interested in getting the rights >to do such a project? > >Some classmates >want me to do the wedding dress(very easy to research, at least), but >I'm leaning towards a 1880's style dress she wore in Canada, I think >on a 1983 tour. I think the original was a cream silk or satin with >a little pancake-shaped hat she wore in honor of Yukon days or >whatever it was called. I can't remember where I saw the picture but >it stuck in my mind because of the historic style of the dress. I >will have to go to our local main library who has the older issues in >hardcopy of "Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature" in order to >find some articles. But does anyone on the list have any hints on >where I might find photographs of this dress? > melanie wilson [9,333]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: Melanie Wilson Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:41:07 -0400 -Poster: Melanie Wilson There was a repro done a while ago with a company from England Maderia wools. I think the web page was maderia.co.uk, but I'm not sure, there was some info on it anyhow (the repro) Mel christina nevin [38,334]CSuX:hb Subject: H-COST: HB From: Christina Nevin Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:02:26 +0100 -Poster: Christina Nevin Alikhat wrote: The accent was Yorkshire, actually. And as much as it annoyed me, too, it was clearly intentional, as she dropped it in favor of a nice, stately BBC-British accent as soon as she "dropped character". To an American ear, the latter may sound far more regal, but she did say that the Duchess was a real person, so perhaps the idea was that she would speak with the accent of the region she came from. Just a thought, anyway. Yes, especially as "class accents" were a development in the 18th century. They were entrenched by the 19th century, so now we don't realize "it wasn't always so". Previously the nobility spoke with the accent of the region they came from, as same as the gentry, middle and lower classes. Apparently Sir Walter Raleigh, the epitome of a courtier, spoke with a strong Midlands accent all his life (think Sean Bean from "Sharpe"). I find that notion somewhat amusing, for some reason. I gotta admit I did the same as Angela's husband and switched off halfway through an episode of HB though. I was very disappointed in the adaptation. Speaking of adaptations - has anyone seen the latest BBC "Scarlet Pimpernel"? One of my top twenty favorite books but they _totally_ ignored the entire point of the books (i.e. master of disguise/tactical genius and improviser/etc) and went for "James Bond in the eighteenth century". Having said that, as "007 1780s" I enjoyed it. The nobles' clothes were _absolutely gorgeous_. I'm not too up on C.18 fashion, so couldn't tell whether they were historically accurate but they looked very like some of the stuff they have in the Museum of London. There were several ballroom scenes where both the men's and women's dress was to kill for. All those peacocks make modern men look sooo boring! Brocade and lace left, right and center... What did other people think of it? Cheers, Tina david w. rickman [67,335]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 99 8:53:29 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, I must admit that I have not actually watched the Horatio Hornblower series, so I probably shouldn't comment. However, I am a big fan of C.S. Forester, read many of the books and feel sorry for the fact that his Hornblower character seems not to translate well into film - well, popular film at any rate. The only other time I know of that it went before cameras was the film made in the 1950's, with Gregory Peck as Hornblower. Given Hollywood's fear of making anything that isn't "boffo boxoffice," it is surprising that thefilm was made at all. Still, even with a screenplay partly written by Forester himself, and an attempt to portray the less glamorous aspects of Royal Navy service, the film was truly wretched. As wretched as only Hollywood knows how to do it. I have stayed away from the current series largely because I really like the Hornblower books and I really like the series' designer. I first decided not to watch the series when I saw a photograph of the lead actor. My God, Forester would never recognize that pretty boy as his skinny, awkward young Hornblower. I wonder if they included in the series the fact that Hornblower was actually seasick in Spithead, afraid of heights (so he hated to go aloft) and was absolutely tone-deaf and so found music irritating. I wonder, too, if they included the fact that he was perpetually concerned with the image he projected, fearing that if others found out how softhearted and uncertain he was they would not trust him to lead them, so he spent his life wearing mask of stern superiority and suffered from loneliness? No, that wouldn't be boffo boxoffice. But since this is the costume list, and not the Forester list, I might comment that one of my favorite costume designers, John Mollo, was at the helm on this production. Mollo is an acknowleged expert on military matters, is the author of numerous respected works on British uniforms, and yet has had to suffer through working on such series as "Sharpe", films like "Revolution" and, by all accounts, now this. It must be hard for the man to have to continually compromise his deep knowlege of such matters because of the realities of working in film. He has written a brilliant account of his experiences on "The Charge of the Light Brigade" the first film he ever designed, where he had to endure the usual ignorance of directors. Tony Richardson, the director, called the young Mollo in to discuss the design and said emphatically that he did not want Mollo to put the British Army in red coats. He felt that they were cliche, and wanted to see them all in dark blue. Mollo left the meeting stunned, not knowing how he could turn down such an important job, but not knowing how he could represent the British infantry in the Crimean War in the wrong color uniforms. An old hand on the set took him aside and said "Don't worry. Here's what you do. Do a couple of test shots with extras in blue coats with lots of dust and gunsmoke floating around, and then do the same shots with red coats. Don't try to tell the director that the red coats are the only accurate choice, tell him they look better on film." Mollo did it and was allowed to put the men in red coats. And so it has ever been with his career. Except in rare cases, it is typical of film work that the first budget they cut - before special effects, before music, even before catering, is costuming. Most directors are wholly ignorant of such matters and indifferent besides. Thus, in the current production one sees Royal Navy Marines in 1793 wearing uniforms of a style ten years too early. The sailors' costumes are reasonably good, but the officers' hats are absurdly misshaped. The strange combinations of women's fashions will be obvious as well. Some look quite good (usually the lead actresses) while others are impossibly wrong. No doubt Mollo has had to make the usual concessions to poor budgets (forcing him to rent most of the costumes), director's ignorance and indifference and actors' egos. So, if you see something strange in this series, do not blame the designer. Very likely he was the only one on the set who knew or cared about accuracy. David sarah toney [39,336]CSuX:simplicity pattern Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity pattern From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:12:08 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" One thing you must remember, though, is that the "big three" often cater to the ever growing number of us who do live roleplaying, mostly because we are the most vocal about it. We need stuff that we can run throught the woods in but to the untrained eye still looks "period". For the true historical costumer, they definitely need to be adapted, but still, they're something. > >-Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com > >Not the "regular" pattern companies, but people who actually do research and >draft from originals so that there are accurate pattens for use. But >unfortunately, I've seen far too many "Halloween costume" pattterns used for >"ye olde looke" by people and at places where they should try for accuracy. >I "practice" with an English country dance group locally (and have for over >12 years) but will not "perform" with them (again use that loosely) since the >first time I did and saw their costumes (in the modern Simplicity patttern >term), modern hair and glasses, etc. They've been doing it since the >Bicenntennial and have no desire to change--but a few newer people have >noticed my clothes and asked info and have actually made stays and correct >clothing. If only the Simplicity pattern ones would stay at purely social >functions and not step into the world of performances and museums who of >course don't know when they ask these people to do performances and the group >says they are historically accurate. I just don't want to be seen with them >in public in those clothes. Nice people, but totally clueless. >Charlene > sarah toney [39,337]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: Re: H-COST: H. Hornblower on A&E From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:15:40 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" As I recall, she was supposed to be a "BAD" actress... though she was waaay too amusing. > >-Poster: "Susannah Eanes" > >Kind readers: > >Am I missing something or just totally confused? Why did it seem on >last night's episode of Horatio Hornblower (now THERE'S a man!) that >the Duchess seemed to be wearing early 1780s attire in one scene, and >early 1790s in the next, and I thought the time was early 1800s? > >??? >And did her accent seem incredibly Scottish for someone purporting to >be a Duchess residing in London? I know she was actually an actress >portraying a Duchess, but did they mean to pick a Scottish actress to >portray the actress portraying a Duchess? How stupid do they think >we are? > >The men's costuming by and large seems to be superb, given my limited >knowledge of maritime garments. Did they screw up on the ladies' >attire, or am I just totally wrong on the time period being portrayed? > >I haven't read the C.S. Forester novel, btw. Maybe if I had, I could >answer my own questions. If anyone has any insight into this puzzle, >please let me know. > >Susannah > >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > j,k,s&a baird [18,338]CSuX:opinions, do you have any Subject: Re: H-COST: Opinions, do you have any From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:26:44 -0500 -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" > Fashion Design 1850-1895 > published at $29.95, listed at $ 19.95 > I have this book, and I do like it. It is only illustrations, NO DATES or other text. If you already recognize the dates of various styles, it's good for ideas. I browsed through it last night for overskirt variations, and a few days ago for lace collars. Illustrations are loosely grouped by subject--bodices, sleeves, handbags, collars, evening gowns, underwear, shoes, etc. It's 9"x11", about 1" thick. kim robin netherton [94,339]CSuX:upcoming papers for kalamazoo Subject: H-COST: Upcoming papers for Kalamazoo From: Robin Netherton Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:33:28 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Robin Netherton I promised I'd post a reminder to the list about this: The International Congress on Medieval Studies, run by the Medieval Institute at Western Michigan University, includes three costume-related sessions this year. (That I know of -- I haven't looked through the entire list of 532 sessions yet, and each session has three to four papers.) The conference will be May 6-9 at the usual venue in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Gale Owen-Crocker and I have again organized a dress/textiles track, with the following sessions/papers: Session 79: Dress and Textiles I: Art & Reality (Thursday 6 May, 1:30 p.m.) "The Use of Textiles in Religious Ritual: Sacred `Cloth' in the Armenian Rite -- A Preliminary Study of the Armenian Collections in Istanbul, Turkey" Marlene Breu, Western Michigan University, and Ronald Marchese, U. of Minnesota - Duluth "Why Valerie Wears Polka Dots: The Limitations of Medium on Twelfth-Century Enamels" Marcia Schlemm, Kansas City "`With Tars and with Tafeta': The Symbolic Use of Fabric and Dress in Six Middle English Alliterative Poems" Patricia A. Price, U. of Minnesota Session 125: Dress and Textiles II: Practical Considerations (Thursday 6 May, 3:30 p.m.) "Medieval Knitting in the Islamic World and Spain" Anne Reaves, Marian College "Lower-Class Flemish Women's Dress of the Later Sixteenth Century" Drea Leed, Springfield, Ohio "The Fifteenth-Century V-Neck Gown" Robin Netherton, Annandale, Virginia Members of this list may recognize Drea as a current member and Anne as a past one. Both of these sessions are sponsored by DISTAFF, a group we formed to organize people interested in costume who attend the Kalamazoo conference. (The letters stand for Discussion, Interpretation, and Study of Textile Arts, Fabrics, and Fashion.) DISTAFF will host an informal reception immediately after these two sessions, at 5:15 p.m., so the discussion can conveniently spill over from the sessions. (Last year, we just all sat in a circle and talked costume.) Earlier on the same day is another costume-related session, organized by the gracious and talented Desiree Koslin of New York University. This session is focused on literary and art interpretation: Session 27: Medieval Textiles and Attire: Object, Text, and Image (Thursday 6 May, 10 a.m.) "Christ as a Windblown Sleeve: The Ambiguity of Clothing as a Sign in Gottfried von Strassburg's _Tristan_" Margarita Yanson, U. of California-Berkeley "Marie de France's _Bisclavret_: What the Werewolf Will and Will Not Wear" Gloria Thomas Gilmore, U. of Utah "Unravelling the Mystery of Jan van Eyck's Cloths of Honor: Textiles as Sacred Object and Text" Donna M. Cottrell, Shaker Heights, Ohio "`Dressed in Humility': Fashioning Identity in an Age of Living Saints" Elizabeth R. Dunn, Georgetown University There may be other papers with a costume or textile focus scattered elsewhere in the four-day program; most of the other sessions, however, cover such areas as literature, art, history, economics, language, music, archaeology, pedagogy, etc. Information on the conference, including registration info, is available at . At-the-door registrations are accepted; housing is probably full by now, but there are plenty of hotels and a local SCA group that has been known to be friendly with crash space. enrollment. This is not a costumed event. --Robin susannah eanes [90,340]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 06:36:25 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Forgive the long quote, but these points are important... > Mollo is an acknowleged expert on military matters, is the author >of numerous respected works on British uniforms, and yet has had to suffer >through working on such series as "Sharpe", films like "Revolution" and, by >all accounts, now this. It must be hard for the man to have to continually >compromise his deep knowlege of such matters because of the realities of >working in film. > >Most directors are wholly ignorant of such matters and indifferent >besides. Thus, in the current production one sees Royal Navy Marines in 1793 >wearing uniforms of a style ten years too early. Must be one reason why I thought the story was early 1800s. Still, for 1793, the only good reason I read from the responses to my original question was the one someone made about perhaps the actress/Duchess character was just wearing the things she had available in her acting wardrobe. Now that makes sense. Still, if she was a Duchess, and wanted to be believed one, she would not have PURPOSELY worn things an entire decade out of fashion (the lovely brown open-fronted robe, for instance --and it is lovely, if quite out of fashion for 1793) --and I am so sick and tired of seeing this type of pandering to popular ignorance by Hollywierd. Also, I was not aware of the humble birth of the Duchess. Thank you for letting me know. And, in my own ignorance, I cannot tell a northern accent from a Scottish one. So am I to gather that in this one detail, A&E got it right? And can anyone be surprised at my assumption that they did not, given their stupidity on costuming? >The sailors' costumes are >reasonably good, but the officers' hats are absurdly misshaped. The strange >combinations of women's fashions will be obvious as well. Some look quite good >(usually the lead actresses) while others are impossibly wrong. No doubt Mollo >has had to make the usual concessions to poor budgets (forcing him to rent >most of the costumes), director's ignorance and indifference and actors' egos. >So, if you see something strange in this series, do not blame the designer. >Very likely he was the only one on the set who knew or cared about accuracy. > >David I never blamed anyone but the producers of the series, and A&E, and never mentioned this blame in my original post. I know from the experience of friends who have worked as makeup artists & extras on sets how little regard Hollywierd has for accuracy in costume. This was the point I was getting to... Shouldn't we all who are concerned about things like this, and are sick & tired of trying to explain to visitors to the living history sites at which we work, why we don't look & act & talk like the idiotic wretches they see on TV/in movies, write en masse to A&E and TELL them it DOES matter? And btw, until the directors get it and I see a major change in the accuracy and direction of mundane theatrical costuming, I am going to KEEP saying a very loud and emphatic *NO* when theatre & TV people hear about me & wonder if I will do any work for them. I don't need the heartache & I am really *much* too much of an egotistical prima donna about my work! Or perhaps my ego isn't so large that I need to see my name in a list of film credits to satisfy my need for recognition. I, for one, could not hold my head up in public, and my pocketbook, thank God, does not suffer for this. Oh, but belittle not their choice of the actor who portrays Hornblower. It is lovely that they finally found someone with a chin to play a hero! And he does seem to me to be playing a fallible hero, which only increases his likeability. Now, if they can only find someone with chest hair... we might actually believe there are real men out there who act! Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com kate m bunting [12,341]CSuX:hornblower Subject: H-COST: Re: Hornblower From: "KATE M BUNTING" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:57:08 +0100 -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I second Sandy's comments on the "Duchess" - the character told Hornblower she was imitating a real duchess who spoke with a north-country (not Scottish!) accent. As to date; the series of novels cover the entire period of the Napoleonic Wars, during which our hero rises to high rank and marries twice. It's about 30 years since I read the early ones so I forget the details, but it appears that to avoid having to "age" the dishy Ioan Gruffudd they have embroidered upon Hornblower's adventures as a junior officer in the 1790's, adapting some incidents from later stories. I'm told the uniforms are very authentic, so presumably the civilian clothes were well researched too. BTW, here in Britain we have just seen Ioan Gruffudd in "Great Expectations", so no doubt that will come your way in due course. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby penny ladnier [15,342]CSuX:hong kong tour Subject: H-COST: Hong Kong Tour From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:00:29 -0600 (MDT) -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I just added to the Fashion Perspective Tours' Website details about their Hong Kong Tour during this summer's fashion week. If you would like more information about the tours go to http://www.costumegallery.com/fashion/tours.html Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com sarah toney [26,343]CSuX:hornblower Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Hornblower From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:07:04 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" According to A&E, this series is trying to encompass only the first book... if it is popular, they may do several of the other books... but they didn't want to do it an injustice by trying to cram too much into a two hour time slot. Personally, I have seen each of the episodes aired so far and think they are excellent... It may not be exactly as the book, however, there is a reason for it... in a book, we can imagine things and develop our own opinions of the characters looks and such... in a movie this is not so... if they did the movies exactly as the books, for most any series, audiences would most likely find them "boring" or "shallow"... it is very difficult to adapt a novelization into a workable screenplay that is interesting... they have done a wonderful job. Sarah As to date; the series of novels cover the entire period of the Napoleonic Wars, during which our hero rises to high rank and marries twice. It's about 30 years since I read the early ones so I forget the details, but it appears that to avoid having to "age" the dishy Ioan Gruffudd they have embroidered upon Hornblower's adventures as a junior officer in the 1790's, adapting some incidents from later stories. nancy gilly / philippa grey [11,344]CSuX:h. hornblower on a&e Subject: H-COST: Re: H. Hornblower on A&E From: Nancy Gilly / Philippa Grey Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:14:39 -0400 -Poster: Nancy Gilly / Philippa Grey The movie "The Duchess and the Devil" was set in the mid/late 1790s (1796 I believe was the date given at the beginning). According to the books, Hornblower was confirmed in his lieutenancy in 1797. Philippa susan carroll-clark [20,345]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:19:11 -0400 -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I've tracked down the replica that the professor in Canada's made. It'll be at the Woodstock Museum until next Saturday. Woodstock Museum 466 Dundas St, Woodstock, ON, N4S 1C4 (519) 537-8411 I don't know whether they have a web page, or know if the tapestry is moving on after that, but if you're really interested, it might be worth a call. The thing is *fabulous*. Susan susannah eanes [40,346]CSuX:hb Subject: Re: H-COST: HB From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:43:18 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >I gotta admit I did the same as Angela's husband and switched off halfway >through an episode of HB though. I was very disappointed in the adaptation. > >Speaking of adaptations - has anyone seen the latest BBC "Scarlet >Pimpernel"? >The nobles' clothes were _absolutely >gorgeous_. > >There were several ballroom scenes where both >the men's and women's dress was to kill for. All those peacocks make modern >men look sooo boring! Brocade and lace left, right and center... What did >other people think of it? > >Cheers, >Tina > > Indeed! *They seek him here, they seek him there... !!* We saw the Anthony Andrews version & it was wonderful & just awful at the same time. Sometimes the acting can be downright masterful, while the makeup and costuming can be positively painful to endure... my fiance fell asleep while in a roomful of people watching it last fall, waking only long enough to murmur thru squinted lids "This is positively dreadful," ...and yet, the ending and all those disguises were positively superb. Sigh... Susannah Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com margo anderson [26,347]CSuX:exibit of princess diana s dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: EXIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES From: Margo Anderson Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:41:18 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Some classmates >want me to do the wedding dress(very easy to research, at least), but >I'm leaning towards a 1880's style dress she wore in Canada, I think >on a 1983 tour. I think the original was a cream silk or satin with >a little pancake-shaped hat she wore in honor of Yukon days or >whatever it was called. I can't remember where I saw the picture but >it stuck in my mind because of the historic style of the dress. I >will have to go to our local main library who has the older issues in >hardcopy of "Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature" in order to >find some articles. But does anyone on the list have any hints on >where I might find photographs of this dress? I have a book called "The Royal Style Wars" that shows the dress. She borowed it from the BBC wardrobe to wear to Fort Edmonton. It's a nice costume, but the photo shows one of the basic costume mistakes--modern underpinnings. A corset would have helped. We should be fixing our scanner sometime this week, so let me know if you can't find it and I'll send you a pic. Margo margo anderson [17,348]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: Margo Anderson Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:52:26 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson Getting wildly OT, here, but...Did you all know that Gene Roddenberry based the character of Captain Kirk on Hornblower? As for the Scarlett Pimpernel, I don't agree. I turned it off. I thought the acting was dull, and the clothes didn't grab me. In a period of peacock men, I find it hard to forgive sloppy tailoring. Learn to hang a sleeve, people! Of course, as David points out, the producers probably neither knew nor cared to spend the money for a decent tailor. Margo susannah eanes [35,349]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:26:49 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >As for the Scarlett Pimpernel, I don't agree. I turned it off. I thought the >acting was dull, and the clothes didn't grab me. In a period of peacock >men, I find it hard to forgive sloppy tailoring. Learn to hang a sleeve, >people! > >Of course, as David points out, the producers probably neither knew nor >cared to spend the money for a decent tailor. > >Margo What? You mean they didn't hang sleeves in the 18th century the way they did in 1970? But, but,,, !!! ;-D One would think that the way they all swagger about with those immensely padded shoulders, you know. Too bad the subtleties of period fit are beyond most of them. And they are subtleties. Like the way the SLEEVE itself allows for movement, and NOT the back of the coat. I am so sick of correcting this on every single pattern I buy that purports to be made from an original. When I gather enough money, I will publish my patterns, so help me, I will... I think what most of us were applauding was the use of color and fabric. Again, I was referring to the Anthony Andrews version, and I do not know if this is also the BBC version. Jump in, anyone. Susannah Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com the mulders [16,350]CSuX:brigadoon Subject: H-COST: Brigadoon From: The Mulders Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:33:13 -0500 -Poster: The Mulders I've got one for the scottish lovers in the house. My son will be in a high school play this week end. He is so upset because the costume company sent white tights for under the kilts. He is a true son of mine. He would like to know if they wore socks at all or if so what color. They sent victorian costumes for the girls. It is just high school and no one had the time to sew up 31 costumes. Renting you get what you get. He would like vindication anyway. Thanks, Ninya agottfre@telusplanet.net (angela gottfred)[18,351]CSuX:exibit of princess diana s dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: EXIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:37:20 -0600 -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Margo Anderson wrote: > I have a book called "The Royal Style Wars" that shows the dress. She >borrowed it from the BBC wardrobe to wear to Fort Edmonton. Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of personal privilege! The Princess of Wales could not possibly have worn the dress to Fort Edmonton, as no such place currently exists. She probably either wore it to Edmonton, Alberta for Klondike Days, or to Edmonton's Fort Edmonton Park, perhaps to take part in some reenactment on 1886 Street. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net margevapor@aol.com[11,352]CSuX:hornblower Subject: H-COST: Re: Hornblower From: MargEvaPor@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:47:33 EDT -Poster: MargEvaPor@aol.com At the conclusion of THE DUCHESS & THE DEVIL, reference was made to a recent victory by Nelson--Cape St Vincent, I believe. The date of this battle was 14 February, 1797. Margaret Porter susannah eanes [47,353]CSuX:brigadoon Subject: Re: H-COST: Brigadoon From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 08:53:29 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Oh, my God. This reminds me of the time my mother, the English teacher, said blithely in response to being asked for her advice on what a student should wear who was portraying Amelia Bloomer in a school play, "Oh! Bloomers, of course! Like Little Bo Peep!" No, I didn't strangle her. I just smiled politely and said, "Let me help you find something suitable." Even if you go to the library and check out the most basic Osprey costume book, you will see Highlanders wearing bias cut hose --OK, argyle socks aren't the best substitute, but they are better than white tights!!! AAGGHH! Susannah > >-Poster: The Mulders > > > >I've got one for the scottish lovers in the house. My son will be in a high >school play this week end. He is so upset because the costume company sent >white tights for under the kilts. He is a true son of mine. He would like to >know if they wore socks at all or if so what color. They sent victorian >costumes for the girls. It is just high school and no one had the time to sew >up 31 costumes. Renting you get what you get. He would like vindication >anyway. >Thanks, >Ninya > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com r.l. shep [36,354]CSuX:opinions, do you have any Subject: Re: H-COST: Opinions, do you have any From: "R.L. Shep" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:17:50 -0700 -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I agree whole heartedly. The illustrations are good but since it is not dated it is absolutely useless for research. Just pretty to look at! ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks ---------- >From: "J,K,S&A Baird" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Opinions, do you have any >Date: Tue, Apr 20, 1999, 6:26 AM > > >-Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" > > >> Fashion Design 1850-1895 >> published at $29.95, listed at $ 19.95 >> >I have this book, and I do like it. >It is only illustrations, NO DATES or other text. >If you already recognize the dates of various styles, it's good for ideas. >I browsed through it last night for overskirt variations, and a few days >ago for lace collars. >Illustrations are loosely grouped by subject--bodices, sleeves, handbags, >collars, evening gowns, underwear, shoes, etc. >It's 9"x11", about 1" thick. > >kim > hope h. dunlap [41,355]CSuX:elizabethan gloves Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Gloves From: "Hope H. Dunlap" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:56:30 -0400 -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I recently found a beautiful color picture of a pair of Elizabethan gloves, with a page long explanation of the ceremonial use of gloves as gifts to seal contracts, express fealty, etc. in Treasures from the Embroiderers' Guild Collection, edited by Elizabeth Benn, ISBN 0-7153-9829-6, copyright 1991. It's on page 14, with relevant text on page 12. The hands are kid or doeskin, while the gauntlets are two layers of linen overlaid with embroidered silk and trimmed with silver gilt lace (looks gold in the photo--does it mean silver, gilt with gold?) and spangles. The embroidery is done in colored silk floss, silver gilt thread, silver strip, and something called "metal purl." The cut of the fingers and the way the gores are fit in on the sides of the fingers is ingenious and elegant, exaggerating the length of the fingers substantially as they are cut well back towards the wrist from the first knuckles. The gores extend to a point at the end of the actual fingers, but the glove fingers without gores extend another inch, as if to accommodate the wearer's long fingernails. The text emphasizes that many gloves were made entirely for ceremonial purposes and never worn. These appear to have been lightly worn from the way the fingers are shaped. The three-tabbed gauntlets are decorated with embroidered tulips and butterflies, each motif different. It's a gorgeous book overall, with 54 pages of photographs of British embroideries from Tudor times to present, , 46 pages of Turkish, Persian, and Greek examples which are glorious, and 44 pages of Indian, Pakistani, other Asian and Chinese examples. Well worth requesting from interlibrary loan, as it is chock full of close-up photographs, all in color. Hope H. Dunlap kate m bunting [14,356]CSuX:more comments from england Subject: H-COST: More comments from England From: "KATE M BUNTING" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 19:47:56 +0100 -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Actually, Sir Walter Ralegh was a Devon man so his accent was West Country, not Midlands. One thing that made me smile in the "Scarlet Pimpernel" series was that everyone wore 1790s fashions except for the Prince of Wales. He had been given a Regency haircut, presumably so the audience would know who he was meant to be! In answer to David Rickman - yes, the first Hornblower film did include the seasickness and the fear of heights (though not the tone-deafness), and I thought he appeared suitably gauche. The character is, after all, supposed to be attractive to women when he is a few years older. I can't remember the "Duchess's" clothes in detail (that episode was shown here a month or two ago), but I bow to Susannah's superior knowledge if she says they were wrong for the 1790s. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby andrea gideon [10,357]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: "Andrea Gideon" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:15:00 -0700 -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have suggestions? Andrea susannah eanes [35,358]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:35:36 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Try pricking holes in shape of the design on the pattern paper, and then dusting through the holes with powdered tailor's chalk. This is the period method, and it works well for me. The marks brush off easily as I work. For light colored fabric, I use black carbon paper, and trace the design lightly, then rinse the fabric thoroughly to remove the marks when I am finished. Susannah >From: "Andrea Gideon" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "H-Costume" >Subject: H-COST: marking on dark wool >Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:15:00 -0700 > > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything >to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing >paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have >suggestions? >Andrea > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com frank&tracy thallas jr [25,359]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 99 13:38:52 PDT -Poster: "Frank&Tracy Thallas JR" My last project involved embroidery on very very dark green (almost black) cotton velveteen, and I had the same problem. I finally suceeded by marking the pattern with yellow tracing paper, then basting along the lines before they could rub off - these stitches can be hidden under your embroidery, or you can clip them as you go along. Liadain ---------- > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything > to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing > paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have > suggestions? > Andrea > > s.b. mcdaniel [21,360]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: H-COST: Re: marking on dark wool From: "S.B. McDaniel" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:48:59 +0000 -Poster: "S.B. McDaniel" I use yellow tracing paper, and then go over the markings with a very fine gel roller in a light color. This doesn't tub off, and my embroidery covers the markings. If your embroidery won't cover it, then baste over the tracings, then pull them out when finished. Sandy > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > > > I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anyt= > hing > > to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tra= > cing > > paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone= > have > > suggestions? > > Andrea lois [18,361]CSuX:scottish tartan Subject: H-COST: Scottish Tartan From: Lois Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:02:33 +0000 -Poster: Lois Could someone please tell me what Scottish tartan the Porter's used. Last year at Convergence '98 there was a Scottish group with a commercial booth. They told me that the Porter's did not have a tartan of their own but used the tartan of Mc???????? Lois -- Lois Mueller Wooden Porch Books books@woodenporch.com steve & michelle plumb [62,362]CSuX:any lecturers in the metro detroit area? Subject: H-COST: Any lecturers in the Metro Detroit area? From: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:05:02 -0400 -Poster: "Steve & Michelle Plumb" Hello all. I visited the Detroit Historical Museum last week. While strolling through the J.L. Hudson exhibit, I stumbled on quite a find! The Tavy Stone Fashion Library - The Fashion Group Interntional, Detroit Unfortunately, due to threatening weather, I had only a short time to peruse this wealth of information. It is an impressive library, with a second room with what appeared to be magazines, newspaper articles, and heaven knows what else. I will return as soon as I can, and spend some quality time there. Now, as to the subject of this message, the lecturer part. While there, I met a very nice person named Jill, who asked me what my fashion interests were, and would I like to guest lecture at Wayne State University. They are apparently in great need of lecturers on the fashion and costume industry. I thanked her, and told her that I am only an interested rank amateur, and am in no way qualified to lecture. I then thought that maybe some of you were in the Metro Detroit area, and would be interested in giving a lecture. If so, here is the Library's address, etc. Tavy Stone Fashion Library The Fashion Group International Detroit Hours are: Wednesday through Thursday 11:00 am to 4:00 pm Friday 1:00 pm to 4:00 pm Sunday by appointment Arrangements for special groups Library phone: (313) 832-0844 The Detroit Historical Museum 5401 Woodward Ave. Detroit, Michigan 48202 ttfn, Michelle =========================================================== Steve & Michelle Plumb -- splumb@ic.net Plymouth, Michigan USA "Gstaad. Today, a paradise in the Alps. Tomorrow, a wasteland. Compared to Clouseau, Atilla the Hun was a Red Cross Volunteer." -- Herbert Lom, in "Return of the Pink Panther" =========================================================== sue toorans [30,363]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: Sue Toorans Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:20:27 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: Sue Toorans On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Andrea Gideon wrote: > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything > to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing > paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have > suggestions? > Andrea > I have done this to try to mark dark, silk velvet for metal thread embroidery. First copy the paper design to more paper that can be trashed. Pin the copy to the fabric with *LOTS* of pins. You don't want it to move. Next, thread a needle with contrasting thread and sew through the paper and the fabric on the design lines. Use small running stitched. When all design lines are "traced" in thread, tear out the paper. After the embroidery is complete, the outline thread may be completely covered, in that case, don't sweat it, otherwise, remove what still shows. Painful, but effective. Sue I am *NOT* a rabid feminist! I had my shots last year. susannah eanes [44,364]CSuX:ot-horatio hornblower Subject: Re: H-COST: OT-Horatio Hornblower From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:38:17 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" > >I have not read the books, but I love the movies--whether the costumes >are accurate or not. The important thing for me is that the movie >will lead to read the books. As an avid reader I think that interest >in movies should cause the viewer to read--not necessarily compare. I >am an Arthurian and believe, the so-called Arthurian movies drive me >crazy but I hear so often that someone gets excited about the movies >and then reads the "true" story! > >My $.02 worth, >Kristen Sieber > > I have to agree with Kristen. Happily, in this case, the HH movies did lead me to check out my local library and there I found, to my great astonishment, that all 37 copies of the various HH volumes in the series had been checked out, and that there was a waiting list! And this, in a very rural county with four regional libraries! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... I can wait, if others are already reading them, in this case I am quite gratified! Also, I checked out the A&E website. Over 3500 good (& bad!) rating comments have already been made on the Hornblower series. If you care to read and/or make a comment, go to www.AandE.com then to the message boards section. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com david stamper & eve harris [19,365]CSuX:tracing embroidery patterns Subject: H-COST: Tracing embroidery patterns From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:00:09 -0400 -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" I know this won't necessarily work on dark fabrics, but I wanted to share this tidbit: >From Historical Needlework by Margaret Swaine, 1970: "A design could be drawn out on thin paper, and pricked through and pounced (powder rubbed through the prick holes) on to the cloth. This "pricking and pouncing" was the traditional method of transferring designs and dated from the Middle Ages." I don't know what she used as her source for that argument, but I like the practicality. Eve Harris kristen m. sieber [20,366]CSuX:ot-horatio hornblower Subject: H-COST: OT-Horatio Hornblower From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:51:16 -0700 (PDT) -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" I have not read the books, but I love the movies--whether the costumes are accurate or not. The important thing for me is that the movie will lead to read the books. As an avid reader I think that interest in movies should cause the viewer to read--not necessarily compare. I am an Arthurian and believe, the so-called Arthurian movies drive me crazy but I hear so often that someone gets excited about the movies and then reads the "true" story! My $.02 worth, Kristen Sieber DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com sarah toney [23,367]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: "Sarah Toney" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:20:57 -0400 -Poster: "Sarah Toney" Try doing a hand baste to create the pattern... very loosely... then embroider it and pull out the basted threads when you are done.' Sarah > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything >to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing >paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have >suggestions? >Andrea > > ron carnegie [52,368]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: Ron Carnegie Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:07:05 -0400 -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 06:36 AM 4/20/99 PDT, you wrote: >I never blamed anyone but the producers of the series, and A&E, and >never mentioned this blame in my original post. I know from the >experience of friends who have worked as makeup artists & extras on >sets how little regard Hollywierd has for accuracy in costume. This >was the point I was getting to... Shouldn't we all who are concerned >about things like this, and are sick & tired of trying to explain to >visitors to the living history sites at which we work, why we don't >look & act & talk like the idiotic wretches they see on TV/in movies, >write en masse to A&E and TELL them it DOES matter? And btw, until >the directors get it and I see a major change in the accuracy and >direction of mundane theatrical costuming, I am going to KEEP saying >a very loud and emphatic *NO* when theatre & TV people hear about me >& wonder if I will do any work for them. I don't need the heartache >& I am really *much* too much of an egotistical prima donna about my >work! Or perhaps my ego isn't so large that I need to see my name in >a list of film credits to satisfy my need for recognition. I, for >one, could not hold my head up in public, and my pocketbook, thank >God, does not suffer for this. > >Oh, but belittle not their choice of the actor who portrays >Hornblower. It is lovely that they finally found someone with a chin >to play a hero! And he does seem to me to be playing a fallible >hero, which only increases his likeability. Now, if they can only >find someone with chest hair... >we might actually believe there are real men out there who act! > >Susannah > I do not see how A&E can be blamed at all. This is NOT an A&E production or for that matter even an American production. It was produced by Meridian in Britain and aired on ITV last November. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* ron carnegie [41,369]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: Ron Carnegie Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:10:12 -0400 -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 08:26 AM 4/20/99 PDT, you wrote: >>Margo > >What? You mean they didn't hang sleeves in the 18th century the way >they did in 1970? But, but,,, !!! ;-D One would think that the way >they all swagger about with those immensely padded shoulders, you >know. Too bad the subtleties of period fit are beyond most of them. >And they are subtleties. Like the way the SLEEVE itself allows for >movement, and NOT the back of the coat. I am so sick of correcting >this on every single pattern I buy that purports to be made from an >original. When I gather enough money, I will publish my patterns, so >help me, I will... > >I think what most of us were applauding was the use of color and >fabric. Again, I was referring to the Anthony Andrews version, and I >do not know if this is also the BBC version. Jump in, anyone. > >Susannah > > The Anthony andrews version was far better than the newer version, aired in in the US on A&E not very long ago. I do not know it's history however. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* annbwass@aol.com[21,370]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 18:04:14 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I'll chime in with my two cents' worth, since no one has suggested it. You can also use a tear-away stabilizer. Sulky makes several products. They keep coming out with new ones. I haven't investigated lately. Be sure you read the package directions. They are very good. You copy your design onto the stablizer, attach it to your fabric (some are iron-on, if your fabric can stand it, some not), embroider through it, and tear it away after. It tears away very well. (One is also water soluble, and dissolves after--again, if your fabric and threads can take water. Won't work for velvet, of course.) If you are doing dense satin stitch, some of the stablizer will remain underneath, and this may affect the hand a little. The various stablizers are also good for embroidering on pile fabrics--I've used them for monograming towels, for instance. Some purists may shudder at using new-fangled products like these, but I don't think they are going to harm the finished look. Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com annbwass@aol.com[16,371]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: AnnBWass@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:51:26 EDT -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I haven't been watching the Hornblower series because I don't have cable. I read the books years ago, and they do go all the way up through Waterloo, but evidently this take is only the early years. I went up to Baltimore for the big A & E promotion for the series. They had a couple of replica ships. I went dressed in my 1815 garb, and was told by one of the sailors that their ship was a copy of a 300 year old vessel. I happened to meet someone I knew who was also confused by having a ship of that era promoting the Hornblower series. So, to sum up, this promotion did not leave me with high expectations of the whole project. Ann Wass annbwass@aol.com marsha j. hamilton [24,372]CSuX:ot-movies to book Subject: Re: H-COST: OT-Movies to Book From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:25:52 -0400 -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" ....the HH movies >did lead me to check out my local library and there I found, to my >great astonishment, that all 37 copies of the various HH volumes in >the series had been checked out... ----------------------------------- Exactly! I was intimidated by the thought of reading Woolf. But I HAD to see "Orlando" for the costumes. I was so taken by the premise that I immediately read the book. I frequently move from film-to-book. Publishers expect it. Look at "Publishers Weekly" for re-issue of classics depicting a scene from a film or tv production on the cover and lurid hype. Jane Austen--as seen on tv! Henry James--as you've never seen him! Hawthorne--a tale of lust, betrayal and obsession! What the heck. dave;editors(heritage matters) [37,373]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 00:01:51 +0100 -Poster: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" > > -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > > I haven't been watching the Hornblower series because I don't have cable. I > read the books years ago, and they do go all the way up through Waterloo, but > evidently this take is only the early years. > I went up to Baltimore for the big A & E promotion for the series. They had > a couple of replica ships. I went dressed in my 1815 garb, and was told by > one of the sailors that their ship was a copy of a 300 year old vessel. I > happened to meet someone I knew who was also confused by having a ship of > that era promoting the Hornblower series. > So, to sum up, this promotion did not leave me with high expectations of the > whole project. > Ann Wass I had a conversation with my bootmaker who worked as an extra on the filming. The original ships used would not have made it across the Atlantic if anyone could afford it. Most of the action taking place on board ship was actually filmed on a huge quarter section , Aft and a bit of side , mounted on a barge ; although they also had a part of the prow similarly set up. Or so I remember. The ships only being used for distance shots. The main reasons for using these mockup is to allow for all of the lighting cameras and gneral requirements of modern filming, which would be impossible on a real ship. L.D.Mundy susannah eanes [59,374]CSuX:poor mr. forester Subject: Re: H-COST: Poor Mr. Forester From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:14:36 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >> >> -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com >> >> I haven't been watching the Hornblower series because I don't have cable. >I >> read the books years ago, and they do go all the way up through Waterloo, >but >> evidently this take is only the early years. >> I went up to Baltimore for the big A & E promotion for the series. They >had >> a couple of replica ships. I went dressed in my 1815 garb, and was told >by >> one of the sailors that their ship was a copy of a 300 year old vessel. I >> happened to meet someone I knew who was also confused by having a ship of >> that era promoting the Hornblower series. >> So, to sum up, this promotion did not leave me with high expectations of >the >> whole project. >> Ann Wass > >I had a conversation with my bootmaker who worked as an extra on the >filming. The original ships used would not have made it across the Atlantic >if anyone could afford it. Most of the action taking place on board ship >was actually filmed on a huge quarter section , Aft and a bit of side , >mounted on a barge ; although they also had a part of the prow similarly set >up. Or so I remember. The ships only being used for distance shots. The main >reasons for using these mockup is to allow for all of the lighting cameras >and gneral requirements of modern filming, which would be impossible on a >real ship. > >L.D.Mundy > > Actually, there is an interview on the AandE.com website, with the makers of this ship. I found it very interesting. Look for the link on the "behind the scenes" section of the H&H section, which is hard to miss since it is the big promotion this week. Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com margo anderson [26,375]CSuX:exibit of princess diana s dresses Subject: Re: H-COST: EXIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES From: Margo Anderson Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 17:22:55 -0800 (PST) -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:37 AM 4/20/99 -0600, you wrote: > >-Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) > >Margo Anderson wrote: >> I have a book called "The Royal Style Wars" that shows the dress. She >>borrowed it from the BBC wardrobe to wear to Fort Edmonton. > >Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of personal privilege! The Princess of Wales >could not possibly have worn the dress to Fort Edmonton, as no such place >currently exists. Having been to Canada for a total of eight hours in my life, I don't claim to know this... I'll just quote the book: "Pale pink period costume borrowed from the BBC'S wardrobe for the Princess of Wales for her trip to the historical monument of Fort Edmonton, where time has stood still". Maybe it only comes out of the mists for one day every hundred years? No...wait a minute....I'm getting my threads mixed up again! MARGO lynn carpenter [16,376]CSuX:upcoming papers for kalamazoo Subject: H-COST: re: Upcoming papers for Kalamazoo From: Lynn Carpenter Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:11:23 -0400 -Poster: Lynn Carpenter Robin Netherton wrote: >The International Congress on Medieval Studies, run by the Medieval >Institute at Western Michigan University, includes three costume-related >sessions this year. (That I know of -- I haven't looked through the entire >list of 532 sessions yet, and each session has three to four papers.) The >conference will be May 6-9 at the usual venue in Kalamazoo, Michigan. could drop $95 on books so easily. Lynn gaelscot@aol.com[19,377]CSuX:almost ot 19th-cent. q Subject: H-COST: almost OT 19th-cent. Q From: Gaelscot@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:32:57 EDT -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Hello, all! I am writing with one on-topic and one related off-topic question about weddings in the mid-19th century (pre ACW). What would working-class people wear to their weddings? Just their Sunday best, or special clothing? Also, WHEN would they get married? I understand (or I THINK I understand) that, for instance, urban workers generally worked long days, six days a week. So would they get married on Sunday? Nobody does that today. Would they get married in a church, or at a JP's office? Thanks in advance -- Gail Finke brandy dickson [19,378]CSuX:bayeux tapestry / sca group Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry / SCA group From: "Brandy Dickson" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 21:20:10 -0700 -Poster: "Brandy Dickson" I live just a small ferry-boat ride away from Lion's Gate, and I can't speak for them, but I know that Sea Girt, Kingdom of An Tir (Victoria, B.C. Canada), had worked on a tapestry not unlike that of the Bayeaux Tapestry...only they made a MANY panelled tapestry of the history of THIER shire (now Barony)... I'm not sure if that's perhaps what you were thinking of..... Brandy Dickson > One group a friend believes worked on it was "Lion's Gate, AnTir". That > sounds right to me. Carol / Gra/inne, who doesn't know what they did with > it afterward pierre & sandy pettinger [22,379]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: H-COST: Re: marking on dark wool From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:49:58 -0500 -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything > to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern tracing > paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. Anyone have > suggestions? > There is a pencil made for marking dark colored fabric - designed for quilters primarily. It has a silver lead and is supposed to erase easily with a good art eraser. I have one but haven't tried it yet. I would guess it would work best if the wool was not too loosely woven or fuzzy. They're pretty cheap, so if it didn't work, you're not out much. Also I would test on a scrap first, and mark lightly to start. Just my tuppence worth. Sandy carol j. bell cannon [19,380]CSuX:bayeux tapestry / sca group Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry / SCA group From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:43:43 -0700 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:20 PM 4/20/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Brandy Dickson" > >I live just a small ferry-boat ride away from Lion's Gate, and I can't speak >for them, but I know that Sea Girt, Kingdom of An Tir (Victoria, B.C. >Canada), had worked on a tapestry not unlike that of the Bayeaux >Tapestry...only they made a MANY panelled tapestry of the history of THIER >shire (now Barony)... I'm not sure if that's perhaps what you were thinking >of..... > >Brandy Dickson It may well be that you have the right of it. Thank you for the correction. It had been a long while since that was discussed on the SCA Digest. Carol cynthia j ley [18,381]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: H-COST: Re: marking on dark wool From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 02:06:47 EDT -Poster: cynthia j ley Try the silver quilters' pencil. I use mine on darned near everything--keep it sharp and it will serve you well. Most fabric shops around here sell them in the Notions department. Arlys You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] teddy [24,382]CSuX:hornblower Subject: H-COST: Hornblower From: Teddy Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:57:35 +0000 (GMT) -Poster: Teddy > At the conclusion of THE DUCHESS & THE DEVIL, reference was made > to a recent I've not been watching this series (no interest in it other than the costumes and I don't watch *anything* just for the costumes), but I did catch this episode and was startled to see a friend and fellow costumer in it. In the scene where Hornblower was introduced to the "Duchess" there are a few people chatting in the background. One lady then dashes across the room and offers her arm to a startled looking Hornblower to escort her in to the dining room. It was unmistakably Frances Tucker who's quite an active costumer and trader in the UK re-enactment scene. Nxt time I see her, I shall take her to task for not letting me know she was making an appearance and ask if she was wearing one of her own costumes. Teddy dave;editors(heritage matters) [14,383]CSuX:hornblower Subject: Re: H-COST: Hornblower From: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 13:03:59 +0100 -Poster: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" Poster. L.D.Mundy Teddy said > It was unmistakably Frances Tucker who's quite an active costumer and > trader in the UK re-enactment scene. > Perhaps this is an oppurtunity to mention Frances' excellent sourcing guide The Garter Directory; which I for one found to be most useful (altho Uk based) Dave robin netherton [42,384]CSuX:upcoming papers for kalamazoo Subject: Re: H-COST: re: Upcoming papers for Kalamazoo From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:04:25 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Robin Netherton On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, Lynn Carpenter wrote: > >The International Congress on Medieval Studies, run by the Medieval > >Institute at Western Michigan University, includes three costume-related > >sessions this year. (That I know of -- I haven't looked through the entire > >list of 532 sessions yet, and each session has three to four papers.) The > >conference will be May 6-9 at the usual venue in Kalamazoo, Michigan. > > Question: I've heard that the Congress sometimes includes a fantastic book > sale. Is this true? Can non-participators sneak into the vendor room? I > could drop $95 on books so easily. The program this year lists about 70 vendors, representing university presses and scholarly publishers from around the world, as well as used book dealers, plus vendors of art objects, manuscript pages (real ones), t-shirts, and knickknacks. They used to be spread out among 6 or 8 rooms (I remember when they could all fit into one or two) until a year or two ago, when the conference moved them into one of the dorm cafeterias. In other words, yes, it's big. I have been known to drop $95 on a *single* book if it's a great one, and several hundred dollars a year total -- much of it on Sunday, when many of the vendors offer half-price on their remaining display copies. Most publishers of new books give conference participants 20 percent off list price. With new books, generally they bring a limited supply of display copies, and once those are spoken for you order the book and have it shipped to you. I suspect you have to have a conference badge to shop. You might want to email the Congress to be sure -- mdvl_congres@wmich.edu. But for future reference, if you get on the conference mailing list, you'll get many of these publishers' catalogs (complete with 20 percent discount order forms) in the weeks before the Congress. --Robin carol j. bell cannon [36,385]CSuX:socks with kilts Subject: H-COST: Fwd: Re: Socks with kilts From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 06:02:05 -0700 -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I wrote to my friend, who spent some time in the 48th Highlanders of Canada to ask him about the young gentleman's kilt/socks question. Here is his answer: >Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: Some costume rental place sent white tights for high school aged >> young men to wear under their kilts. > >BLEARGH! > >> One wishes to know what color[s]/style[s] of socks would really be worn. > >The hose you wear with a kilt can be of various sorts and colours (generally to >match the doublet or tunic). My own regiment wore green lovat hose with >service dress and black-and-red diced hose with more formal orders of dress. >Civilian kilt-wearers can obviously wear what they like. I sometimes wear >cross-country ski stockings with my civilian kilt; but I also have some >purpose-made kilt hose. > >The main thing is that they come up over the knee, are gartered below the knee, >then cuffed down so that the hose come just below the knee, with a thick cuff >and the flashes of the garters showing. (Most garters are now elastic with a >worsted flash). The sgian dubh is tucked in the right stocking just in front >of the round of the calf muscle. > >The kilt should come to the centre of the kneecap. The hose come to the bottom >of the kneecap or just a bit lower. > >>Best, Aryk > cynthia j ley [23,386]CSuX:socks with kilts Subject: H-COST: Re: Socks with kilts From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:38:56 EDT -Poster: cynthia j ley Long woolen socks also work. These should ideally be custom-fitted to the foot and leg. The sock should come up over the knee in length. Flashes (garters, often with a bit of decorative ribbon) would then be put on, holding the sock up just under the knee. The sock would then be folded down, leaving the flashes showing. Depends on the period. If you're in a bind, long ladies' socks will do in a pinch, and flashes can be quickly and cheaply made using a bit of elastic for the garter part, and attaching a bit of wide ribbon at the top. Arlys You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] albertcat@aol.com[15,387]CSuX:polka dots Subject: H-COST: Polka Dots From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:09:11 EDT -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com About polka dots...... Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka does...no? Why do I ask? I have been given some wonderful light as air silk chiffon that is a Champaign beige with white polka dots. The dots are about 1/4" to 3/8" in diam. and pretty close together. Because of the transparency of the fabric, the pattern is very subtle. It looks particularly good over the Robin's egg blue/green silk I also have but how early a garment can I get away with? 1800s? 1850s? 1890s? 1950s[!]? katy bishop [35,388]CSuX:vintage ball Subject: H-COST: vintage ball From: Katy Bishop Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Katy Bishop The Commonwealth Vintage Dancers, Medford, MA are pleased to announce an upcoming Ragtime Ball. Please address all enquiries to vintage@shore.net (Katy Bishop). Grand Ball to Celebrate the Maiden Voyage of the latest addition to the White Star Fleet TITANIC Saturday May 8, 1999, 7:30-11pm Sponsored by the Commonwealth Vintage Dancers Reserve your berth today! This year we are going to make it!!! Live Orchestra! Featuring: The New River Dance Orchestra Free Ragtime Dance Workshop 6:30-7:30pm Ball Rates: $20 per person, $17.50 if pre-paid by May 1st To secure your tickets or for further information call (617) 666-1596 To book passage send a check payable to CVD to: P. O. Box 9, Nahant, MA 01908 Also join us for a Ragtime Tea Dance Sunday May 9th, also at the Unitarian Society. Contact Michael Bergman, (617) 964-7684, eclectic@mit.edu for more information. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. pompadour [43,389]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: Pompadour Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:13:11 +0200 -Poster: Pompadour --=====================_29216821==_.ALT At 10:09 21.04.99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >About polka dots...... >Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka >does...no? a 1929 source of mine says they were "becoming almost as standard as floral patterns". of earlier times... i can't tell by heart. i'm pretty certain they were only used for home, children and underwear even in 1929. salut, pompadour --=====================_29216821==_.ALT At 10:09 21.04.99 -0400, you wrote:
>
>-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com
>
>About polka dots......
>Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka
>does...no?

a 1929 source of mine says they were "becoming almost as standard as floral patterns".
of earlier times... i can't tell by heart. i'm pretty certain they were only used for home, children and underwear even in 1929.

salut,
pompadour
 --=====================_29216821==_.ALT-- kristin page [12,390]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: Kristin Page Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:52:25 -Poster: Kristin Page >I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find anything >to mark my pattern with. ... Anyone have suggestions? > I use soap scraps or baste an outline in in light-colored thread. Kristin annette m allen [35,391]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: Annette M Allen Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:41:02 -0700 -Poster: Annette M Allen If you embroider thickly and don't care about it washing out, how about light (or appropriately) colored fine line fabric paint? -Annette On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:15:00 -0700 "Andrea Gideon" writes: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I'd like to embrioder on some very dark green wool, but can't find >anything >to mark my pattern with. I've tried white chark and yellow pattern >tracing >paper, but the marks aren't very clear and rub off very easily. >Anyone have >suggestions? >Andrea > > AnnetteAllen@juno.com For any attached files use: aallen@pacbell.net See my homepage at: Reach or page me at ICQ: Send E-Mail directly to my computer screen using: 14988389@pager.mirabilis.com You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] linda lassman [32,392]CSuX:marking on dark wool Subject: Re: H-COST: marking on dark wool From: "Linda Lassman" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:49:00 CST -Poster: "Linda Lassman" Sue Toorans posted: > > I have done this to try to mark dark, silk velvet for metal > thread embroidery. First copy the paper design to more paper that can be > trashed. Pin the copy to the fabric with *LOTS* of pins. You don't want > it to move. Next, thread a needle with contrasting thread and sew through > the paper and the fabric on the design lines. Use small running > stitched. When all design lines are "traced" in thread, tear out the > paper. After the embroidery is complete, the outline thread may be > completely covered, in that case, don't sweat it, otherwise, remove what > still shows. Something I was taught--which is particularly effective on light coloured fabric, but could also work for dark fabric--is only to tear the tissue or tracing from each area actually being worked on. This keeps the rest of the fabric clean, which is particularly important for projects that you carry around with you (or which take a long time to complete....). Another thing I've seen recently are soapstone markers; they look like one of the Staedler white plastic erasers that you use in a holder, and they come with a metal holder. I've seen them in craft stores for use on fabric, but I've seen exactly the same thing (same marker and holder; different package) for a whole lot cheaper in Home Depot (which is a hardware store chain from the US)! - Linda Lassman Winnipeg, Manitoba susannah eanes [55,393]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:42:53 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Polka dotted fabrics did exist as far back as 1800 or possibly earlier. They were known as "spots," and I have seen them in fashion plates from the early 1800s. I will have to go back & check as to specifically what year I saw them, but I do remember a sort of filmy overdress such as you wish to make that dated sometime c. 1800 - 1825. Do you have Ackerman's? I may have seen it in there, or it may be one of my own original possessions; I have about 12 original plates that date from this period. However, any allover design was spaced rather far apart during this time, and the smaller the spot, the earlier it can be used, perhaps as far back as 1795. I don't know if they were used when the filmy white gowns first began to be seen in the late 1780s. For these gowns, I find that printed designs are spaced at least 1" apart, often 1 1/2" apart. Is the spot printed or woven in? Either would be useful, just do some more research to find the context in which it would be most appropriate. Some fabrics are more suited for "morning," or undress, and some are suitable for "day," and others for "evening" attire. I will send you what I can on the subject. Wonderful find, anyway! Susannah >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Polka Dots >Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:09:11 EDT > > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >About polka dots...... >Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka >does...no? >Why do I ask? I have been given some wonderful light as air silk chiffon that >is a Champaign beige with white polka dots. The dots are about 1/4" to 3/8" >in diam. and pretty close together. Because of the transparency of the >fabric, the pattern is very subtle. It looks particularly good over the >Robin's egg blue/green silk I also have but how early a garment can I get >away with? 1800s? 1850s? 1890s? 1950s[!]? > > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com aliaclaire@aol.com[17,394]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: AliaClaire@aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 14:38:30 EDT -Poster: AliaClaire@aol.com Ladies and gents of the list- I have seen several photos during the ACW era of polka-dot dresses- at least one in Who Wore What, and I know I have others...somewhere. If you'd like more documentation, let me know. I did check on this, since I found some BEAUTIFUL dotted swiss I wanted to make into a sheer dress...until I realized it was $40/yard. Oh well. -Alison (who is just trying to pay for food at this weekend's reenactment) Stacy AliaClaire@aol.com Canton, Ohio aleed [15,395]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: aleed Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:18:45 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: aleed > > > >About polka dots...... > >Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka > >does...no? Although I haven't seen it myself, someone I know informed me about an astonishing mantle from the 14th century that was a bright pink, with gold polka-dots on it. Sorry I don't have more info. Drea melanie wilson [12,396]CSuX:tartan fabric Subject: H-COST: Tartan Fabric From: Melanie Wilson Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:41:30 -0400 -Poster: Melanie Wilson I've been offered a load of pure wool, suit weight (heavy) Tartan fabric in various Tartans, the down side is I'm in the UK, the up is it is only 7.50 per metre. Made in Scotland. About 20m each tartan Any would be Scots out there who want some I'm willing to ship to you.... wherever Mel melanie wilson [9,397]CSuX:kilt hose Subject: H-COST: Kilt Hose From: Melanie Wilson Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:41:32 -0400 -Poster: Melanie Wilson Designs for knitting kilt hose & knickerbocker stockings by Veronica Gainford is the book you must get. Loads of traditional patterns for the real thing Mel penny ladnier [26,398]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:49:07 -0400 -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I have seen a dress as early as the 1820-30s in polka dots. This was at a very well respected dealer's shop. This was a couple of years ago. The date was her claim. One of the articles on my 1890s Ladies Home Journal website mentions fabric with printed dots. At the moment, I cannot recall which article, but try the 1895 issue. Not a very good day for my memory. Its not a good teacher day...Penny >About polka dots...... >Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual Polka >does...no? >Why do I ask? I have been given some wonderful light as air silk chiffon that >is a Champaign beige with white polka dots. The dots are about 1/4" to 3/8" >in diam. and pretty close together. Because of the transparency of the >fabric, the pattern is very subtle. It looks particularly good over the >Robin's egg blue/green silk I also have but how early a garment can I get >away with? 1800s? 1850s? 1890s? 1950s[!]? > > gary stephens [40,399]CSuX:tracing embroidery patterns Subject: H-COST: Re: Tracing embroidery patterns From: Gary Stephens Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:07:19 -0400 (EDT) -Poster: Gary Stephens Eve wrote: >"A design could be drawn out on thin paper, and pricked through and >pounced (powder rubbed through the prick holes) on to the cloth. This >"pricking and pouncing" was the traditional method of transferring >designs and dated from the Middle Ages." The originator of this message neglected to append the charcoal pounce marks were then set in place by using India ink and a fine brush to connect the dots, if you will. When elaborate shading, as in or nue, was required, an actual ink wash was done to create the half-tones required for the embroider. I have done this myself with great effect. >I don't know what she used as her source for that argument, but I like >the practicality. There are many modern scientific references to this having been done, and actual source documentation from Charles Germain St. Aubin's 1700s treatise on embroidery. It can be a very effective method of transfer. Oh, BTW, a lead oxide (I believe that's correct) was used as a white for this same sort of pouncing on dark cloth. Personally, I'd forgo this one attempt at historical re-creation. I rather like remaining non-toxified. :) Lorina -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, period furniture & fine hand-sewn garments ~ e-mail: lgsteph@golden.net ~ http://web.idirect.com/~canuck/stephens/stephen.html agottfre@telusplanet.net (angela gottfred)[17,400]CSuX:ot: ft. edmonton (was: exhibit of princess diana s dresses) Subject: H-COST: OT: Ft. Edmonton (was: EXHIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES) From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:16:09 -0600 -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Margo Anderson wrote: >I'll just quote the book: "Pale pink period costume >borrowed from the BBC'S wardrobe for the Princess of Wales for her trip to >the historical monument of Fort Edmonton, where time has stood still". And we wonder why people get historical facts wrong, when so many writers can't accurately report the recent past!? Obviously Princess Charles went to Fort Edmonton PARK, which is _not_ an historical monument, but a living history village in the city of Edmonton. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net arcadiacb@aol.com[15,401]CSuX:polka dots Subject: H-COST: Re: polka dots From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 00:52:12 EDT -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Just doing a quick check of a few books: In "Textile Designs--Two Hundred Years of European and American Pattersn for Printed Fabrics...", by Susan Meller and Joost Elffers, there are 29 examples of "polka dots" beginning, from the first quarter 19th c to 1930s. Also echoing the reference to earlier "spotted"fabrics, in that wonderful book, "A Lady of Fashion--Barbara Johnson's Album of Styles and Fabrics" (a swatch book of her personal garments made between 1746 and 1822), a swatch for1762 is a "blue and white spotted lutestring (silk). For mid-19thc, I have numerous CDV photographs in my collection of women and girls in "polka dot" patterned gowns. Hope that helps Charlene penny ladnier [14,402]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:25:22 -0400 -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Well, it drove me crazy until I found the article in the 1893 Ladies Home Journal... so here the webpage referring to the "dots" on fabric, http://www.costumegallery.com/LHJ/Sept_1893/Color/silk_fabrics.htm It is actually referred to as dots at this point. This reference is near the bottom of the section. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com dave;editors(heritage matters) [19,403]CSuX:ot: ft. edmonton (was: exhibit of princess diana s dresses) Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Ft. Edmonton (was: EXHIBIT OF PRINCESS DIANA'S DRESSES) From: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:12:26 +0100 -Poster: "dave;editors(Heritage Matters)" Poster L D Mundy > Margo Anderson < wrote: > >I'll just quote the book: "Pale pink period costume > >borrowed from the BBC'S wardrobe for the Princess of Wales for her trip to > >the historical monument of Fort Edmonton, where time has stood still". >Angela Gottfred wrote And we wonder why people get historical facts wrong, when so many writers > can't accurately report the recent past!? Obviously Princess Charles went to > Fort Edmonton PARK, which is _not_ an historical monument, but a living > history village in the city of Edmonton. Was this the famous Princess David trip? susannah eanes [28,404]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: "Susannah Eanes" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 05:50:39 PDT -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" In Ackermans (Blum, ed.), "1820...a round dress of white crape, spotted with white satin." (p. 25). "1826... Ball dress...with... blond spotted scarf..." (p. 66). In the famous 1810 Gilray print of the lady dressing, the lady is drawn wearing a spotted gown. However, in other prints, (Arnold, Cunnington, Blum) wherein it appears that the fabric of a gown or trimming is spotted, the period description uses things like, "figured muslin," or "hailstone," instead of the word "spot," to describe these things that look like dots, and sometimes in these cases there is a close-up that shows the spots to be shaped more like lozenges, leaves, or other geometric shapes. Hope this helps. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com david w. rickman [38,405]CSuX:wedding costume Subject: H-COST: Wedding Costume From: "David W. Rickman" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 99 9:20:26 EDT -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Gail wrote, concerning early-19th century clothing, >What would working-class people wear to their weddings? Just their Sunday >best, or special clothing? Also, WHEN would they get married? I understand >(or I THINK I understand) that, for instance, urban workers generally worked >long days, six days a week. So would they get married on Sunday? Nobody does >that today. Would they get married in a church, or at a JP's office? Generally speaking, you are right that people got married in their Sunday best. They couldn't afford dresses and suits that they wore once and put away forever. Often, though, it is my understanding that women might make a dress especially for their wedding with the plan that they would wear it for best dress after that - often for years. Most weddings would take place in a church, of course, but there were civil weddings. There is a wonderful painting in the Walter Art Gallery in Baltimore, by the American genre artist Richard Caton Woodville, Sr. It is called, I believe, "The Sailor's Wedding" and it shows a big, strapping young sailor in white frock and blue roundabout standing with his bride in the justice of the peace office in a port town. They are in a small, shabby room, with desks and ledgers and a few government clerks. A justice of the peace office would not be open on a Sunday. Also, even today it is not common for those who are married in church to have the service performed on a Sunday. I believe it was the same then. I suggest that you look at period genre paintings of weddings to get details of dress, etc. It was a popular theme for paintings, prints, etc., and the subjects were usually poor or middle class people's weddings, not upper class, so you should certainly find what you are looking for. Good luck! David Rickman drickman@state.de.us albrakat@aol.com[10,406]CSuX:tartan fabric Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan Fabric From: AlbraKat@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:31:59 EDT -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com I'm very interested! Which tartans are available?That's 20 meter lengths---at 7.50 ---about $150. How much do you suppose for shipping? And how would you want your funds sent? Thanks-- Albra danielle nunn [15,407]CSuX:nelson bustle? Subject: H-COST: Nelson bustle? From: Danielle Nunn Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:54:14 -0400 -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, I have a question regarding the "Nelson bustle." I've been reading a novel recently which is set in London in 1820 and referrs to one of the characters wearing a Nelson bustle. This doesn't seem right to me (not my period). Can anyone tell me whether or not such a thing existed as the "Nelson bustle" and if so, when would it have been worn? 1890's? Just wondering, Danielle danielle nunn [19,408]CSuX:polka dots Subject: Re: H-COST: Polka Dots From: Danielle Nunn Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 01:24:49 -0400 -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >About polka dots...... >Does anyone know.....When do they appear? Surely before the actual >Polka does...no?...It looks particularly good over the Robin's egg >blue/green >silk I also have but how early a garment can I get away >with? 1800s? 1850s? 1890s? 1950s[!]? I've seen stuff from the 16th century which looks an awful lot like polka dots. I couldn't tell you *where* I saw it, it was just one of those things where I said "oh, cool!" and kept on going. Sounds lovely, have fun. Cheers, Danielle franchesca havas [74,409]CSuX:glove pattern Subject: H-COST: Fw: glove pattern From: "Franchesca Havas" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:58:41 -0500 -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Here is a glove pattern that I have used that is very good. You can get it from these guys or from amazon dry goods. The price is the same. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas -----Original Message----- From: Moscow Hide and Fur To: 'Franchesca Havas' Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 1:26 PM Subject: RE: glove pattern :We've added a picture of the glove pattern to our web site: : :http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/95000760.html : :You may have to "Reload" the page in your browser to :see the pictures. : :Thank you for your interest in Moscow Hide and Fur and our web site! : :> ---------- :> From: Franchesca Havas[SMTP:ches@io.com] :> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 1:09 PM :> To: Moscow Hide and Fur :> Subject: Re: glove pattern :> :> Sounds great! Thank you! I collect glove patterns and I may have this :> one if :> not I will buy it. :> :> Sincerely, :> F. Havas :> Dallas, Texas :> :> -----Original Message----- :> From: Moscow Hide and Fur :> To: 'Franchesca Havas' :> Date: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 3:04 PM :> Subject: RE: glove pattern :> :> :> :I've done some checking, and we could probably have a photo :> :posted on the web site next week some time, if you're not in :> :a hurry. :> : :> : :> :> ---------- :> :> From: Franchesca Havas[SMTP:ches@io.com] :> :> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 1999 12:45 PM :> :> To: CustomerService@hideandfur.com :> :> Subject: glove pattern :> :> :> :> lot # 9500-0760 :> :> :> :> I am interested in this pattern but want to make sure it is not one :> :> that I :> :> already have. Can you send me an image of the cover please? :> :> :> :> Sincerely, :> :> F. Havas :> :> Dallas, Texas :> :> :> :> :> : :> : melanie wilson [43,410]CSuX:tartans Subject: H-COST: Tartans From: Melanie Wilson Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:13:00 -0400 -Poster: Melanie Wilson >I'm very interested! Which tartans are available? Anderson -blue, white, red, yellow Black Stewart- Dress Stewart Muted- Dress Mccloud Erracht Cameron Erskine- black & white Green Douglas Hay-red, black, yellow Hunting Chisholm-blue/slate, red white Hunting Mcinnes-reds yellows Hunting McKellar-green blue yellow white Hunting Chisholm Old Colours-browns Hunting Mccloud King George Lynsey 7-8 M-red green Mcduff red blue black Mcnab-red black Princess Elizabeth Princess Mary Muted Red Fraser-reds Wallace-black red bit yellow >That's 20 meter lengths---at 7.50 ---about $150. You don't need to take the whole 20m > How much do you suppose for shipping? Surface or air ? > And how would you want your funds sent? Visa, Mastercard, Cheque, money order anything except debit cards really ! Mel henk t jong [22,411]CSuX:bayeux tapestry Subject: Re: H-COST: Bayeux Tapestry From: "Henk 't Jong" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:10:55 +0200 -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advis