=?iso-8859-1?q?michelle=20munzone?= [11,0]CSuX: un subscribe Subject: [h-cost] UN SUBSCRIBE From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michelle=20Munzone?= Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 15:23:51 +1000 (EST) PLEASE take me OFF, your mailing list, as I'm not interested any more. My email address is - michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mobile - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michelle munzone [28,1]CSuX: un subscribe Subject: [h-cost] UN SUBSCRIBE From: "Michelle Munzone" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 01:37:07 -0400 The info for un-subscribing is at the bottom of this message. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com ----- Original Message ----- > PLEASE take me OFF, your mailing list, as I'm not interested any more. My email address is - michelledolls2000@yahoo.com.au > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mobile > - Check & compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile. > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [59,2]CSuX: ...and now, back to our regularly scheduled costuming Subject: Re: [h-cost] ...and now, back to our regularly scheduled costuming From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 08:35:55 -0700 (PDT) I had help that one Saturday from 2 parents and a teacher, none with tremendous amounts of sewing background, and none with real costuming experience. I had them build the really simple pieces of the Munchkin costumes. One of our school secretaries is a former first hand, and she helped me out by doing the handwork on the crows (lots of "feathers: to cut). Other than that... I'm also serving as wardrobe mistress, so the work hasn't finished yet. I'm out the door to get a zipper to replace the one that broke last night in the Cowardly Lion's costume before going to the theater for today's matinee (rented piece--I don't use nylon zippers 'cause they break at the worst possible time). On the up side: I've picked up dresser who's a quick learner, and 2 kids have approached me about becoming costume assistants. Dawn --- Kimiko Small wrote: > At 11:54 AM 5/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >100 costumes. 5 weeks. I can't believe it's ready. > > > >The "Wizard of Oz" opens tonight. > > Congratulations!! My goodness, that's a lot of > costumes. > > I have tried to follow your comments on it, but I > wasn't sure if it was > just you working on the costumes, or if you did get > some people to help on > that Super Costuming Saturday (I think you said > Saturday, my memory gets hazy). > > And get some much deserved rest. You did great! > > Kimiko > > > Kimiko Small > Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and > Mother > kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com > > Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery > http://www.costumegallery.com > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume land of oz [21,3]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: "Katie Lewis" Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 13:45:11 -0400 ofhome-sewing --------- Original Message --------- >pink bows on everything. Earth tones anyone? :-) Out of curiosity, where/when were your pregnant? I just had my baby (4 weeks ago tomorrow) and one thing that *really* surprised me was how "fashionable" maternity clothes are nowadays. I was thrilled of course, because I was able to dress in clothes that were not substantially different than what I normally wear. As a historic tie-in: both my mother (had kids in the late 1970's to mid-1980's) and grandmother (had kids in the late 1950's to early 1960's) were envious of the variety and stylishness of modern maternity clothes. According to them, when they were having kids maternity clothes were really expensive and/or didn't fit past the 7th month and/or were really ugly "I-Love-Lucy" smock things. -Katie Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume j.e. m-c [18,4]CSuX: getting smells out of wool Subject: Re: [h-cost] Getting smells out of wool From: "J.E. M-C" Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:36:28 -0400 Never use ammonia for urine smells. Urine contains ammonia-like compounds. While it might make the smell disappear to you, it will only heighten it for your cat. Jennifer (RVT) At 12:29 29-05-03 -0400, you wrote: >I have had success getting icky smells out of wool by soaking them in >water with ammonia (see label for details, especially good for wool >blankets). You may want to check the fabric first as some dyes are >ph-sensitive & can shift with an ammonia bath. > >Constance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katie lewis [39,5]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: "Land of Oz" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 16:22:58 -0500 > DATE: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:12:12 > From: "Land of Oz" > >I made several maternity items because I didn't like the yellow ducks and > >pink bows on everything. Earth tones anyone? :-) > weeks ago tomorrow) and one thing that *really* surprised me was how "fashionable" maternity clothes are nowadays. I was thrilled of course, because I was able to dress in clothes that were not substantially different than what I normally wear. -------------- When I was pregnant in '91 and '94 (living in the Midwest) my everyday attire was jeans and a pullover (sweater, tee-shirt, sweatshirt) both at work and at home. The only local maternity specialty shop had sizes to 14 (US). Several sizes too small. The maternity wear at stores like Target/Wal-Mart/JCPenney *rarely* went past size 16 and was almost always "cutesy" stuff. The one specialty maternity store I visited that carried plus sizes had two styles---business wear and "cute". Neither were anything like my usual style. I found maternity jeans in a catalog (nothing approaching my inseam requirements), but ended up wearing cotton knit stretch pants and shirts that were several sizes too big. Or I made my own stuff. I made a dress, some overall-style pants, a bathrobe and a couple of shirts. I did buy one very nice maternity dress to wear to a class reunion. I didn't gain very much weight with either pregnancy so just buying different styles, like shirts designed to be worn over pants instead of tucked in, worked out okay for me. To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information available. ? Denise landofoz@netins.net h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather rose jones [48,6]CSuX: ot history at your dorstep Subject: Re: [h-cost] ot history at your dorstep From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 10:03:41 -0700 At 7:05 PM -0600 5/31/03, Sue Clemenger wrote: >Saragrace Knauf wrote: >> >> What a cool story Bjarne. Is it his first or last name? I understand >> that Fitzroy was a common name for English kings to name their bastard >> sons. (Don't remember where I heard that). I think the word you are > > looking for is extinct? >"Fitz" is Norman French? for "son" (or something like that). It's where >you get names like Fitzpatrick and Fitzgerald and such. I always took >it to refer to those bastard children that were, in some way, >acknowledged. >--sue > That's a common misunderstanding (often promulgated by "pop history" books that don't bother to get their facts right). "Fitz" never had any sort of automatic "bastard" associations to its use -- all the "Fitz-Whatever" surnames are perfectly ordinary surnames with no more connotation of bastardy than "Johnson". The _specific_ case of "Fitz Roy" was used on a very few occasions as a surname for a royal bastard, but it wasn't chosen for that use because "fitz" already had connotations of bastardy. An interesting sideline -- you get a big concentration of Fitz-X surnames associated with Anglo-Irish families, where it seems to have been a hybrid practice, rendering the Irish style of family surname of the form "Mac X" (son of X) into an Anglo-Norman format. Powerful Anglo-Irish families that, back in England, would have ended up with a surname based on their major land holdings, instead evolved a surnamed referring to their earliest land-holding ancestor in Ireland. In England, the use of "fitz" in everyday language had tended to disappear before the major era of fixing hereditary surnames, so it was much less common for families based in England to end up with surnames of this type. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [35,7]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:53:19 -0700 >To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the >change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would >think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information >available. ? The two times I was pregnant, I went to the maternity section of the usual pattern catalogs and found everything I wanted there. I don't think I ever went into a maternity store, remembering the "I Love Lucy" maternity look only too well. I wore bikini-style underwear before, during, and after pregnancy, so those stayed the same. I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in the world that makes one look elegant in that condition. And a saree doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now - it will still fit no matter what. Very large women look elegant in them too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at all. If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six yards of any nice border print. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume claire clarke [27,8]CSuX: possible problem Subject: Re: [h-cost] Possible problem From: Claire Clarke Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 08:18:20 +1000 > Has anyone else had a problem with a Trojan virus since that spam went > across the list the other night? Susan, Sharon, and I Aaaaargh! I used to use Netscape (for just such reasons as have been quoted in this thread, and the principle of course). We just got a new computer and my husband convinced me to use OE on it. Barely a week later and here comes a virus. You know, I could not find a way of deleting those spam messages without opening them in OE? That was really annoying. Anyway, it doesn't look like I've got it. Whew! Trojan horses are a pain in the proverbial. We had one on the old PC attached to a Diablo file. We didn't notice it until we'd uninstalled the game, and then we couldn't delete the file because the computer didn't think it was there anymore. Luckily it didn't seem to do anything - just lurked and set off all the virus warnings. Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [17,9]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: "Tonkin, Rebecca (PIRSA-SARDI)" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:29:42 +0930 The Dolmetsch Historical Dance Society may be the type of thing you're looking for. They also have links to similar organisations. http://www.dhds.org.uk I have no idea whether there is any interest in textiles there however. Rebecca ------------------------------ thread. I'm not looking for dancers, nor a dance group in any particular area. I'm wondering if there's a professional or academic association that links researchers and/or performance groups of historical dance. (Or performers of early music or theater, for instance.) I've noted the Medieval and Renaissance Drama Society, for instance (an academic society for researchers). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [23,10]CSuX: testing and possible problem Subject: [h-cost] TESTING and Possible problem From: "H. Law" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 09:41:14 -0400 I see you loud and clear! I run OE and IE, and I have not had any problems. Then again, I never open attachments unless I have been told to expect them, and my programs are configured to ask before opening anything. Once burned, twice shy. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- > First... Am I getting thru to this list at all? (Everyone who doesn't > receive this please raise your hand :-P > > Second (presuming I am getting thru at all) How many folks who have > gotten these "Possible Problems" are running McAfee and/or Netscape? > > Edwinna the Already Easily Confused > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume martyr@gti.net[18,11]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: martyr@gti.net Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 22:49:36 -0400 I'm 5 mos pregnant right now & so far I have found a pretty good variety of clothing & haven't had to resort to anything with bows or ditzy florals. I stocked up on jeans, slip on skirts & T-shirts from Gap Maternity & Old Navy, especially from clearance, but by far the best source so far has been eBay. There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a lot of my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought. Deb R. > The two times I was pregnant, I went to the maternity section of the usual > pattern catalogs and found everything I wanted there. I don't think I ever > went into a maternity store, remembering the "I Love Lucy" maternity look > only too well. I wore bikini-style underwear before, during, and after > pregnancy, so those stayed the same. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [23,12]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 20:05:27 -0700 >There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a lot of >my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought. Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter baby clothes, three quarters everything else. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [75,13]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: "Robin Netherton" Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 23:18:36 -0500 Unfortunately for me I actually had to go get business maternity close or alter clothing for myself. I worked in an office that required business attire. What saved me was a Folkware Afternoon Tea Dress. It was perfect. With a little altering it was both elegant and very business. :) What it is, is a pleated strap empire waist dress with a slit up the back skirt, this is attached to the bodice. There is a Pullover tunic that is loose with a-shaped front hemline that is deep. Over all that is a jacket with the v-shaped hemline in the back. Over this is a belt that goes under your breasts. Last is a drape that is attached to the dress at one side and comes around and tucked into the belt. It is very nice and easy to alter for what you need. All other clothing I got from JC Penney. All the maternity specialty stores' costs were astronomical in comparison to them and I was in no mood to sew the entire time I was pregnant with my three. Thrift stores around here only carried (no offense to anyone) casual maternity wear as in shorts, denim pants, very strange patch work smocks, and dresses that were muumuu's. I have not given away or sold my stuff, only loaned it out once. I am not sure if anyone is even remotely interested in my stuff as it was very expensive and do not know anyone willing to pay even 50% of what I paid for it. The afternoon tea dresses I will not let go. I love them that much! :) Great for summer wear just cause of the layers. For sca, I went with Italian ren. Sincerely, Chiara ----- Original Message ----- : : On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: : : > >There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a : > >lot of my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought. : > : > Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter : > baby clothes, three quarters everything else. : : When I was pregnant, I found that the best place to find decent maternity : clothes was in consignment shops -- but not the usual women's consignment : shops. The children's consignment shops typically had maternity sections : too, and the quality was fabulous. I lived in a city with a high : proportion of professional women, and apparently a lot of them would buy : office clothing, dressy dresses, and attractive casual clothing at the : high-priced maternity boutiques, wear them only a few months (or sometimes : only a few times!), and them dump them in a load at the consignment shops. : I learned to make the rounds of my favorite places about once a month; : when I found my size, I usually found a large number of items because they : were all from the same consigner. : : I continue to buy children's toys, furnishings, and other stuff at the : same shops, as well as at children's resale shops (even better than : consignment if you're bringing in goods, because you get your cash up : front and don't have to pick anything up later). Childrens' everyday : clothes aren't a great bargain, as they are worn hard and washed often, : but children's dress clothes and outerwear are frequently near-new. : : Today, I think eBay is now serving the purpose of a global consignment : shop. But for things I'm going to wear, I really like the chance to touch : them and try them on without having to commit to postage or purchase. : : --Robin : : : h-costume mailing list : h-costume@mail.indra.com : http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [17,14]CSuX: giornea Subject: Re: [h-cost] Giornea From: Sue Clemenger Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:28:52 -0600 Thanks, I'd appreciate it. I've got some pretty good, appropriate ideas for outer wear with some of the other clothing/time periods I'm working on, but ItalianRen has me stumped. --sue Beteena Paradise wrote: > > It is interesting that you ask about the outer garments as I had already > noticed that there doesn't seem to be any in all of the paintings I have > seen. As I generally freeze rather than ruin my "look" it hasn't been much > of an issue! I am looking through all of my stuff now and will let you know > if I find anything! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [39,15]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Robin Netherton Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 22:59:10 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > >There is such a great selection of stuff on eBay & I am guessing a > >lot of my baby clothes will be also be eBay bought. > > Thrift stores and, in my experience, yard sales, are about one quarter > baby clothes, three quarters everything else. When I was pregnant, I found that the best place to find decent maternity clothes was in consignment shops -- but not the usual women's consignment shops. The children's consignment shops typically had maternity sections too, and the quality was fabulous. I lived in a city with a high proportion of professional women, and apparently a lot of them would buy office clothing, dressy dresses, and attractive casual clothing at the high-priced maternity boutiques, wear them only a few months (or sometimes only a few times!), and them dump them in a load at the consignment shops. I learned to make the rounds of my favorite places about once a month; when I found my size, I usually found a large number of items because they were all from the same consigner. I continue to buy children's toys, furnishings, and other stuff at the same shops, as well as at children's resale shops (even better than consignment if you're bringing in goods, because you get your cash up front and don't have to pick anything up later). Childrens' everyday clothes aren't a great bargain, as they are worn hard and washed often, but children's dress clothes and outerwear are frequently near-new. Today, I think eBay is now serving the purpose of a global consignment shop. But for things I'm going to wear, I really like the chance to touch them and try them on without having to commit to postage or purchase. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [22,16]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:56:52 -0700 >For sca, I went with Italian ren. I did one from the family portrait of Thomas More's family, in which two women are pregnant. I called my "Tudor station wagon". CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [33,17]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 05:48:35 -0400 When I was pregnant in 1976 the smocks and high-waist were already in fashion. The only thing I needed to purchase were the maternity pants. I was pregnant on and off (four times) between 1980-1987. Needless to say by the end of 1987 my maternity wear was worn out. I wore a little of the cutesy stuff, but I made the majority of my clothes. Since two of my sons were born this time of the year (one's birthday was yesterday) and the other two in the autumn, I never needed winter maternity wear. Heaven help trying to find a maternity coat during the 1980s. I really do not like the present day maternity wear. I find it a little insulting, skin tight maternity wear. I also did not like seeing Brooke Shields almost nude and pregnant on the recent issue of Vogue. I didn't like being photographed when I was pregnant. And didn't even show up for my 10 year class re-union because I was pregnant. I guess I am old-fashioned in that manner. Pregnancy is a personal time... yes, your husband may say you look beautiful with a bowling ball under your dress. They will say anything to keep the peace during the raging hormones of pregnancy. I just don't think it is a *pretty time.* Well, maybe the first tri-mester if you don't have morning sickness. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lola lee [25,18]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Lola Lee Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 06:42:28 -0400 At 3:47 AM -0600 6/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in >the world that makes one look elegant in that condition. And a saree >doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now - >it will still fit no matter what. Very large women look elegant in them >too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at >all. If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six >yards of any nice border print. You can get good deals on eBay, plus there is a good site where you can "bargain" at . I would also suggest salwar kameez - the pants are cut to have a wide ease with drawstring, plus the tunics are cut to be about a size larger than your normal size - the fit is intended to be very loose. Search for "salwar kameez" on eBay. -- Lola - mailto:lola@his.com http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/ http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume tania gruning [36,19]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Tania Gruning Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 04:55:15 -0700 (PDT) Could anyone point the way for directions for putting saris on, I live in Denmark and we have a very small minority of ethnic people wearing saris. Tania Lola Lee wrote: At 3:47 AM -0600 6/2/03, Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: >I recommend sarees for pregnant women, as they seem to be the only style in >the world that makes one look elegant in that condition. And a saree >doesn't care what size you are today, next month, or three years from now - >it will still fit no matter what. Very large women look elegant in them >too, regardless of your height, as do skinny women with no cleavage at >all. If there are no saree stores within a hundred miles of you, use six >yards of any nice border print. You can get good deals on eBay, plus there is a good site where you can "bargain" at . I would also suggest salwar kameez - the pants are cut to have a wide ease with drawstring, plus the tunics are cut to be about a size larger than your normal size - the fit is intended to be very loose. Search for "salwar kameez" on eBay. -- Lola - mailto:lola@his.com http://www.lolajl.net | Blog at http://www.lolajl.net/blog/ http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume marionetta@aol.com[26,20]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Marionetta@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 08:46:53 EDT I was pregnant in 2000 and am again now and it's interesting to see how much the styles have changed just in a few years. I really liked the tunics and oxford-type blouses I got in the maternity section at target the first time around. I'm glad I saved them all because the current trend seems to be towards brightly printed, almost clownlike very fitted clothing, not my style pregnant or not. Costuming while pregnant is a bit of a challenge, depending on the era. I tend to make costumes for time periods that make me look preggo anyway (Italian ren, regency, 1830s) and try to convince our little costume group to have events that include those time periods. I've always thought certain garments seemed like they were probably maternity/nursing wear by their very nature - short gowns for instance. But then other periods I wonder whether anyone was nursing their kids - how does one nurse a child in a 1880s basque with all the typical underpinnings? Cheers, Loren Who's currently working on an italian ren to wear to Ren faire this year by which time I should be 8 months along... h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [18,21]CSuX: henry viii inventory--the next book? Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? From: Drea Leed Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:07:48 -0400 (EDT) Dear List, Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc. I was sure I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the original emailer re-post that info, if they have it? Thanks, Drea h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume chris laning [37,22]CSuX: henry viii inventory--the next book? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? From: Chris Laning Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that. When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript. I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives... -------Original Message------- From: Drea Leed Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? > > Dear List, Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc. I was sure I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the original emailer re-post that info, if they have it? Thanks, Drea h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume chris laning [37,23]CSuX: henry viii inventory--the next book? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? From: Chris Laning Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that. When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript. I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives... -------Original Message------- From: Drea Leed Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? > > Dear List, Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc. I was sure I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the original emailer re-post that info, if they have it? Thanks, Drea h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > 0 Chris Laning | + Davis, California h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [52,24]CSuX: henry viii inventory--the next book? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? From: Drea Leed Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 14:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Hmm...maybe that's where I heard it. I did a desultory search through the archives, but didn't find what I was looking for. Thanks, Drea On Mon, 2 Jun 2003, Chris Laning wrote: > Drea, that might have been me. Last year at Kalamazoo (the International Medieval Congress) I talked to a publisher's rep from Boydell, which currently (I think) still has the option to publish that. When I asked when it was coming out, he rolled his eyes and said they would be _glad_ to publish it if the author would give them a manuscript. > > I believe someone else then posted that this wasn't quite the whole story and that there were some rights or other legal issues standing in the way, but I don't remember. You might try the archives... > > -------Original Message------- > From: Drea Leed > Sent: 06/02/03 08:07 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? > > > > > > Dear List, > > Some time ago, a person posted some information about the Henry VIII > Inventory situation--why the second book wasn't coming out, the name of > the publisher/producer who was having the funds problem, etc. I was sure > I saved the info, but now it's no-where to be found. I know someone who's > interested in contacting the unfortunate editor in question--can the > original emailer re-post that info, if they have it? > > Thanks, > > Drea > > > > > 0 Chris Laning > | > + Davis, California > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [59,25]CSuX:price of henry s inventory, was: pinned on stomachers. Subject: FW: Price of Henry's inventory, was: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 11:43:44 -0700 Drea, I know this is not exactly what you were looking for, but wonder if the discussion didn't take place 'round the same time...also, might one contact the publisher of the first to get to the second?? Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-admin@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-admin@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of ailith ~Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 4:01 PM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: Price of Henry's inventory, was: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. ~ ~Go here for an American site that sells this lovely book...it's just over ~$260 with shipping. ~ ~http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm?&ID=8788 ~ ~kate ~ ~----- Original Message ----- ~From: "Sue Clemenger" ~To: ~Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:22 AM ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Pinned on stomachers. ~ ~ ~> *drooool!* ~> It's 232 euro, though....what's that in US dollars, these days? About ~> 300? ~> --sue ~> ~> > ~> > At 08:10 AM 1/22/2003 -0800, you wrote: ~> > >The title is _The Inventory of King Henry VIII: the transcript_. It's ~> > >edited by David Starkey. It's published by Harvey Miller Publishers ~> > >for The Society of Antiquaries of London. ISBN 1-872501-89-3. I hope ~> > >that helps. ;) ~> > >Kat ~> > > ~> > > > Who's the publisher, though? Editors? I'd love to get a copy, but ~I'd ~> > > > need all the normal info (including title ). Thanks, Sue ~> > > ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume colleen mcdonald [14,26]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: "Colleen McDonald" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700 Hello, I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work). I do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_. I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques. Thanks in advance! Colleen h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume colleen mcdonald [34,27]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: "Colleen McDonald" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700 The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and techniques. Sabrina ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- >Hello, > >I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work). I do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_. > >I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques. > >Thanks in advance! > >Colleen > > Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume land of oz [28,28]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: "Katie Lewis" Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:48:48 -0400 --------- Original Message --------- >When I was pregnant in '91 and '94 (living in the Midwest) my everyday >attire was jeans and a pullover (sweater, tee-shirt, sweatshirt) both at >work and at home. The only local maternity specialty shop had sizes to 14 >(US). That is icky ƒ¼ Finding plus size maternity clothes isstill difficult, the largest size that I recall seeing is a 20, which is still a bit better than it was. My main problem with maternity clothes was that some stuff (especially pants) that fit early on were way too small by the end. Of course, I was carrying high and big, which made fitting a bit more challenging. As far as finding maternity clothes went, I got really lucky. A good friend of mine gave me all of her maternity clothes, and since she stopped having kids after her 4th pregnancy she had plenty of clothes. I also got a lot of clothes from a consignment shop that was going out of business so I had quite a nice wardrode and didn¡¦t have to spend a ton of money. > >To bring this back on topic, maybe someone could give an overview of the >change in a style worn during pregnancy for various time periods. I would >think that in many time periods, there would not be a lot of information >available. ? True. Of course this lack of information may be because for many periods normal styles worked quite well for pregnancy. From my own experience of wearing historic costume while pregnant I can say that most of my costumes fit until the 4th or 5th month, and a few like my caftan fit until the very end. For my mid-19th century stuff the fitting problem was in the waist, there was just a limit to how much the waist band could expand. For my SCA garb the only fitting problem was with garments that were fitted in the bust, since I went from a B to a C-on-the-edge-of-D cup. When I made a petticoat bodies for maternity wear I got smart and drafted the bodice for a D cup, so it fits perfectly now that I¡¦m not pregnant. The only change needed for my loose gown is to shorten the hem in front, since it is now a little bit too long now that I no longer have a huge stomach to hold it out. -Katie Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sabrina tragus [62,29]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: "Sabrina Tragus" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:12:34 +0200 Hi. Yes i have this book from Royal School of Needlework. It has chapters about goldwork, crewelwork, silk shading and Blackwork. It is very detailed and it has some praktis lessons. There is a very beautifull gold purse, in Elizabethan style you could make. It has something about the history two. It does not say much about middle age embroidery, but i am sure, you could use the teckniques. Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques ISBN Nr. 0 7134 08401 2 Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has > a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked > at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and > techniques. > > Sabrina > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Colleen McDonald" > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700 > > >Hello, > > > >I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the > embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work). I > do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay > Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_. > > > >I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques. > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > >Colleen > > > > > > > Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume claire clarke [42,30]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Claire Clarke Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 07:56:25 +1000 > I really do not like the present day maternity wear. I find it a little > insulting, skin tight maternity wear. I also did not like seeing Brooke > Shields almost nude and pregnant on the recent issue of Vogue. I didn't > like being photographed when I was pregnant. And didn't even show up for my > 10 year class re-union because I was pregnant. I guess I am old-fashioned > in that manner. Pregnancy is a personal time... yes, your husband may say > you look beautiful with a bowling ball under your dress. They will say > anything to keep the peace during the raging hormones of pregnancy. I just > don't think it is a *pretty time.* Well, maybe the first tri-mester if you > don't have morning sickness. > I disagree with you Penny (in the best possible way of course). A little bit before I got pregnant there was a bit of a furore here about a game show hostess (you know, the kind who are basically decoration), who continued to work whilst fairly pregnant. She still wore the lovely evening gowns and so forth, and she looked fabulous. It gave me a lot more confidence about being pregnant. I think pregnancy is great (easier to say that with a 2 yr space between me and it *grin*), and the further we can distance ourselves from the Victorian attitude of being 'in an interesting condition', the better. Get out there and flaunt those bellies people.... On a costuming note, maybe that is why high Victorian fashion looks fairly impossible to be pregnant in - if you were along enough to show much you just lurked in the house and pretended to be invisible. Not a solution for working class women obviously - I wonder what they did. Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cynthia j ley [90,31]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: Cynthia J Ley Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 15:43:05 -0700 There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, but you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD EMBROIDERY: TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, 1987, ISBN 0-7134-5577-2. Not a lot of stuff on medieval but highly recommended by some Costuming Laurel friends who are extremely knowledgable and classify this book as a prime resource. Tons of information. Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work? Arlys On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 23:12:34 +0200 "Bjarne og Leif Drews" writes: > Hi. > Yes i have this book from Royal School of Needlework. > It has chapters about goldwork, crewelwork, silk shading and > Blackwork. It > is very detailed and it has some praktis lessons. There is a very > beautifull > gold purse, in Elizabethan style you could make. It has something > about the > history two. > It does not say much about middle age embroidery, but i am sure, you > could > use the teckniques. > > Royal School of Needlework Embroidery Techniques > ISBN Nr. 0 7134 08401 2 > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sabrina Tragus" > To: "Historical Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 1:31 AM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources > > > > The Royal School of Needlework has an embroidery book out that has > > a large section on goldwork. It was beyond my skill when I looked > > at it, but I seem to remember them referencing older pieces and > > techniques. > > > > Sabrina > > > > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > > From: "Colleen McDonald" > > Reply-To: Historical Costume > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 13:06:54 -0700 > > > > >Hello, > > > > > >I'm currently searching for sources on medieval gold work (of the > > embroidery/couching kind, not gold smithing or jewelry work). I > > do have a copy of _A Pictorial History of Embroidery_ and Kay > > Staniland's _Medieval Embroiderers_. > > > > > >I'm specifically looking for sources on techniques. > > > > > >Thanks in advance! > > > > > >Colleen > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your own evilemail.com address at http://www.evilemail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [16,32]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 19:59:09 -0400 Loren, Congratulations! When are you due? Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [31,33]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2003 21:53:40 -0400 On Monday 02 June 2003 08:46 am, Marionetta@aol.com wrote: > I was pregnant in 2000 and am again now and it's interesting to see how > much the styles have changed just in a few years. I really liked the > tunics and oxford-type blouses I got in the maternity section at target the > first time around. I'm glad I saved them all because the current trend > seems to be towards brightly printed, almost clownlike very fitted > clothing, not my style pregnant or not. > > Costuming while pregnant is a bit of a challenge, depending on the era. I > tend to make costumes for time periods that make me look preggo anyway > (Italian ren, regency, 1830s) and try to convince our little costume group > to have events that include those time periods. I've always thought > certain garments seemed like they were probably maternity/nursing wear by > their very nature - short gowns for instance. But then other periods I > wonder whether anyone was nursing their kids - how does one nurse a child > in a 1880s basque with all the typical underpinnings? I suspect that's part of what wrappers were for. :-) -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume annora [20,34]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: annora Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:03:03 -1000 (HST) > There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, but > you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD EMBROIDERY: > TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, 1987, ISBN > 0-7134-5577-2. It's back in print and available at Amazon for $20.97. Amazon.com.uk also has a paperback edition but the price is about the same as the new hardcover in the US. > Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work? Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how to do it. Or did you want info on historical pieces? --annora h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [25,35]CSuX: maternity clothes Subject: Re: [h-cost] Maternity clothes From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:09:14 -0700 >how does one nurse a child > > in a 1880s basque with all the typical underpinnings? > > >I suspect that's part of what wrappers were for. :-) I've seen things like that for 1880s - shapeless and relatively corset-free. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume annora [12,36]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: annora Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 19:14:16 -1000 (HST) > Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how to do > it. Oops, no it doesn't--the book I was actually thinking of is Ecclesiastical Embroidery by Beryl Dean. Sorry for the bad lead. --annora h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [14,37]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:40:47 +0200 Hi, I finally started working on my partlet! And I made some digital pictures of it. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [20,38]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: "Deredere Galbraith" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:54:37 -0400 Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece! Dianne ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, > > I finally started working on my partlet! > And I made some digital pictures of it. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > > Greetings, > Deredere > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [16,39]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:38:39 -0500 Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I finally started working on my partlet! > And I made some digital pictures of it. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html That looks beautiful! What dress will you wear it with? Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [23,40]CSuX: henry viii inventory--the next book? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Henry VIII Inventory--the next book? From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 08:50:16 -0500 Speaking of the Henry VIII Inventory, after looking over the last messages about it, which point to the David Brown Book Co. website, I feel I should point out that it can be ordered from Oxbow Books, their UK affiliate, at 80 pounds. That's roughly $130 US, as opposed to the list price on David Brown, which is $256. Though it's a heavy book, even with shipping (especially if you choose the slow boat) that's a much better deal. And while I'm on the subject of expensive but very useful books, Textile Conservation and Research by Mechtild Flury-Lemberg, which sometimes goes for over $200 used, can be had new from the Abegg-Stiftung (the original source) for under $100. http://www.abegg-stiftung.ch It's not listed on their website, but I've emailed them and confirmed that it is indeed currently available. (Thanks to Danielle Nunn-Weinberg for that tip!) Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [36,41]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 15:07:57 +0200 > > That looks beautiful! What dress will you wear it with? By the end of this month we will go to a big SCA event. And I will probably wear this partlet with my weddingdress. I am affraid this is not hystorical correct. I wanted my weddingdress to be Italian but I think it turned out to be more spanish. But I will make this dress http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent_dress/16thcent_dress.html But then the partlet would be a little rich for such a plain dress :-( . I probably wil have to make or adjust a dress to fit with the partlet ;-) . Greetings, Deredere > > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dianne & greg stucki [33,42]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 06:33:58 -0700 Just what I thought......... Lisa ----- Original Message ----- > Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece! > > Dianne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Deredere Galbraith" > To: "H-Costume" > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 6:40 AM > Subject: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet > > > > Hi, > > > > I finally started working on my partlet! > > And I made some digital pictures of it. > > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > > > > Greetings, > > Deredere > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [11,43]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: RE: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:07:38 -0700 Ditto! I am so impressed! What an inspiration to us all! Sg ~ ~> Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [20,44]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 10:22:15 -0500 Deredere Galbraith wrote: > But I will make this dress > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/16thcent_dress/16thcent_dress.html > But then the partlet would be a little rich for such a plain dress :-( . Oh, I don't know. The dress will be silk, after all, and the partlet will be a lovely accent. > I probably wil have to make or adjust a dress to fit with the partlet ;-) . That works, too--we're always happy to see more of your creations! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [20,45]CSuX: update of my partlet. Subject: [h-cost] update of my partlet. From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:39:28 +0200 Hi Deredere, What a job you are doing here. Oh it looks sooooooooooooo good. Congratulations, you solved an impossible task. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [22,46]CSuX: another website i lost. Subject: [h-cost] another website i lost. From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:41:04 +0200 Hi. There was one lady who shared her renaissance middleclass dress with us. I never had a look. Would somebody please email the address again? Thanks Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [16,47]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Sue Clemenger Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:07:12 -0600 Hear, hear! --sue Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Ditto! I am so impressed! What an inspiration to us all! > > Sg > > ~ > ~> Holy smoke, Deredere! That is going to be a masterpiece! > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[19,48]CSuX: another website i lost. Subject: Re: [h-cost] another website i lost. From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:08:31 EDT In a message dated 6/3/2003 9:37:41 AM Central Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > Hi. > There was one lady who shared her renaissance middleclass dress with us. I > never had a look. > Would somebody please email the address again? > Was that me? I know there's a lot of middle class dress diaries out there. If it was me, my diary URL is in my sig line. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[12,49]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:09:58 EDT Oh my good golly! Zowie! That is gorgeous! NOw *I* wanna learn how to make those buttons/jewels. *covet* -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cynthia j ley [35,50]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: Cynthia J Ley Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:55:56 -0700 On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:03:03 -1000 (HST) annora writes: > > There is also a very good book on Goldwork by Jane Lemon--it is OP, > but > > you might be able to find it in a library. METAL THREAD > EMBROIDERY: > > TOOLS, MATERIALS, AND TECHNIQUES, B.T. Batsford, Ltd, London, > 1987, ISBN > > 0-7134-5577-2. > > It's back in print and available at Amazon for $20.97. > Amazon.com.uk also has a paperback edition but the price is about > the same as the new hardcover in the US. Cool! :-) > > > Does anyone know of any sources on Or nue work? > > Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how > to do it. Or did you want info on historical pieces? Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used in historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to what substitutes might. And also how to do the technique. thanks, Arlys The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [29,51]CSuX: =?iso-8859-1?q?update_of_toill=e9_=28robe_francaise=29?= Subject: [h-cost] =?iso-8859-1?q?update_of_toill=E9_=28robe_francaise=29?= From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:19:16 +0200 Hi. there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today. I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it, they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok? I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job every week, really pushes my work with sewing.......... Anyway the update is here: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping. Hope you enjoy! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [15,52]CSuX: another website i lost. Subject: RE: [h-cost] another website i lost. From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:18:04 -0700 I had missed this too. Very nice work! Is your name really Sarra? Saragrace (always curious about names since mine is a little odd) "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [20,53]CSuX: help with removing "back dye"?? Subject: [h-cost] Help with removing "back dye"?? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:24:39 -0700 Oooooooh I am sooo mad at myself. I had just worn my new 'fighter practice' gown and need to wash it. I forgot and left it in the machine overnight and now the blue/green dye on the linen has set up on the dupioni lining and insets. I had washed it with synathropol which would probably have kept the dye in solution but since it lay all over itself... Should I wash it right away again? I thought I would ask because I want to keep it as new looking as possible, so if there is no hope for it, I will just let it be. I dyed the linen with Dharma's procion dyes. and washed it numerous times to prevent this, but..grumble, kick, spit.. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[57,54]CSuX: Subject: Re: [h-cost] From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:32:46 -0500 In a message dated 6/3/2003 10:18:53 AM Central Standard Time, saragrace@earthlink.net writes: > I had missed this too. Very nice work! > > Is your name really Sarra? > > Saragrace (always curious about names since mine is a little odd) > Thanks! Nah, it's Sarah..."Sarra" is my Kewl 'Bethan Spelling. "Saragrace" is so pretty! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Hi Bjarne, The dress looks fantastic! It looks so good in the muslin, I can't wait to see what the real fabric looks like. Of course the embroidery is outstanding as well. I hope that someday we can all get together so that we can see your work in person, I'm sure it's even better up close. You are right that the arms are set into the shoulders in a way that seems very far back to our modern eyes. The 18th century corsets drew the shoulders back and down to give a broad front with sloping shoulders and a narrow back. I made a classic mistake years ago when I was a teenager and frist learning to do 18th century costumes- I enlarged one of Janet Arnold's 18th century patterns from 'Patterns of Fashion' but didn't realize the difference in silhouette until I tried to wear it and it cut into my rather broad, square shoulders to such an extent that I couldn't wear the riding habit comfortably. I learned THAT lesson really well! You need to make sure that either the lady who will wear the gown is going to keep her body held in the 18th century posture, or that you modify the shoulder design to accomodate a more modern style. If you don't, the dress will be agony for her to wear. Just my tuppence worth! Karen The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [24,55]CSuX: update of =?iso-8859-1?q?toill=e9_=28robe_franc?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?toill=E9_=28robe_franc?= From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:26:38 -0500 seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > You are right that the arms are set into the shoulders in a way that > seems very far back to our modern eyes. The 18th century corsets drew the > shoulders back and down to give a broad front with sloping shoulders and > a narrow back. In fact, if you make a good solid corset and make sure to put in those diagonal bones over the shoulderblades, you can achieve something of this effect even with a modern body. The diagonal bones are there to push the shoulderblades in and keep them there, which to some extent enforces the proper posture. Of course, there are quotes in Waugh's Corsets and Crinolines from 18th-century letters about how the corsets are cut so wide at the front that they cut into their arms. So it's not just us! ;) Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kat@grendal.rain.com[22,56]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: kat@grendal.rain.com Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:43:23 -0700 > > Metal Thread Embroidery by Barbara Dawson has a bit on how > > to do it. Or did you want info on historical pieces? > > Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used > in historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to > what substitutes might. And also how to do the technique. Arlys, do get the Dawson book if you can. It addresses this specifically. (I had out my stack of metal threads embroidery books this morning and was looking through them to make sure which books would be best to recommend to Cainder. Since what Cainder is doing is essentially a form of Or Nue, I wanted to make sure that she had a book which described the technique well enough.) Kat h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [31,57]CSuX:=?iso-8859-1?q?___update_of_toill=e9_(robe_?= francaise) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_[h-cost]__update_of_toill=E9_(robe_?= francaise) From: Kimiko Small Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:05:55 -0700 At 05:19 PM 6/3/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Anyway the update is here: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html >Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping. >Hope you enjoy! Wow, that is all just lovely and beautiful. And I am glad you shared the toille as well, as I have never really seen a full toille workup before. I work from patterns or a sloper, but I can see how a toille really is a useful skill to learn. The way it all drapes and such on the form is wonderful. You can really see how things are going to go, which I always fret over when I am making out a pattern on paper. Thanks Bjarne! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [34,58]CSuX: udated website of my partlet Subject: Re: [h-cost] Udated website of my partlet From: Kimiko Small Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:01:31 -0700 Wow, Deredere, that is wonderful how those buttons are looking. I am glad to see that the polymer clay idea is working for you. The partlet is going to be wonderful! And if you have to make a new dress to match the partlet, then so much the better in my mind. But then for me, any excuse to make a pretty new dress. Kimiko At 12:40 PM 6/3/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >I finally started working on my partlet! >And I made some digital pictures of it. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > >Greetings, > Deredere Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [42,59]CSuX: update of =?iso-8859-1?q?toill=e9_=28robe_fran?= Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of =?ISO-8859-1?Q?toill=E9_=28robe_fran?= From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:48:39 +0200 That is looking good! Greetings, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Hi. >there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today. >I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards >the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it, >they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok? >I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered >panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job >every week, really pushes my work with sewing.......... >Anyway the update is here: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html >Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping. >Hope you enjoy! > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [28,60]CSuX: help with removing "back dye"?? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Help with removing "back dye"?? From: Sue Clemenger Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 20:07:48 -0600 You might try washing it again, or washing it with Biz. Of course, I don't know what the Biz would do to your black bits, but it worked well for me when the red silk embroidery on a coif-to-be ran and stained the linen varying shades of pink. --sue Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Oooooooh I am sooo mad at myself. I had just worn my new 'fighter > practice' gown and need to wash it. I forgot and left it in the machine > overnight and now the blue/green dye on the linen has set up on the > dupioni lining and insets. I had washed it with synathropol which would > probably have kept the dye in solution but since it lay all over > itself... > > Should I wash it right away again? I thought I would ask because I want > to keep it as new looking as possible, so if there is no hope for it, I > will just let it be. > > I dyed the linen with Dharma's procion dyes. and washed it numerous > times to prevent this, but..grumble, kick, spit.. > > Sg > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume annora [32,61]CSuX: gold work sources Subject: Re: [h-cost] Gold work sources From: annora Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 17:56:34 -1000 (HST) > Historical and how-to. One of my sources tells me that the gold used in > historic or nue pieces can't be found anymore--I am curious as to what > substitutes might. And also how to do the technique. The Jane Lemon book does say that Japanese gold "became impossible to buy from the 1970s onwards" but it has the following about Jap gold and silver substitutes. "A thread made in a similar manner to the original jap gold, but using a plated alloy instead of the gold leaf. It is handled in exactly the same manner, but it is easier to use because it does not come unwound so easily." For historical pieces, one of my favorite sources is The Conservation of Tapestries and Embroideries - Proceedings of Meetings at the Institut Royal du Patrimoine Artistique, Brussels, Belgium, September 21-24, 1987. There are three papers on the conservation attempts on pieces from the 13th, 15th, and early 16th centuries. One of them is the set of Burgundian vestments that are shown in figures 254-268 of Schuette (which IIRC you said you have). The pictures aren't as large or as clear as the ones in Schuette but there's a short discussion of technique. Because the book deals with conservation, there are some nice closeups of the work, although they're of small areas. --annora h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [13,62]CSuX: need norris quote Subject: [h-cost] Need Norris quote From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 01:12:56 -0500 (CDT) Believe it or not, I need a quote out of Norris (the volume that covers 14th c.), and I don't have it on my own shelf. Can someone who has a copy and a few minutes to look something up for me, please email me privately? Thanks. --Robin, slapping together a lecture for this weekend h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [25,63]CSuX: june online classes Subject: [h-cost] June Online Classes From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:25 -0400 The following is a list of June online classes at the Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com : Starts June 2: (can enter this class as late as Saturday) ***Propriety, Plain and Fancy: Victorian and Edwardian Fashions from Bustle to Gibson Girl (enrollment is open until June 7) Starts June 23: ***No Lady of Leisure- Dress for the Working Class Victorian/Edwardian Woman (1850-1910) ***Elizabethan Glove Making: Make your own pair of gloves ***Costume Analysis of Four Films Set in Elizabethan England Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [22,64]CSuX: need norris quote Subject: [h-cost] Need Norris quote From: "Robin Netherton" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 05:27:09 -0700 you probably have 500 responses already, but I own up to possessing a copy! What would you like? Lisa ----- Original Message ----- > > Believe it or not, I need a quote out of Norris (the volume that covers > 14th c.), and I don't have it on my own shelf. Can someone who has a copy > and a few minutes to look something up for me, please email me privately? > Thanks. > > --Robin, slapping together a lecture for this weekend > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [9,65]CSuX: need norris quote Subject: Re: [h-cost] Need Norris quote From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:04:34 -0500 (CDT) I'm covered now! Thank you! --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lisa sinervo [9,66]CSuX: need help with a colour scheme? Subject: [h-cost] need help with a colour scheme? From: "Lisa Sinervo" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 06:22:45 -0700 Just found this free download program. Will help you select a colour scheme which can be used for anything including ...... historic garments! Lisa h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [9,67]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:17:05 -0700 Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches (breeches)"?. I learned it from my mother who was from the southern US. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[27,68]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:12:44 -0500 I haven't heard of 'too good for his britches' but I have heard 'he's getting too big for his britches' meaning someone who has a great deal of attitude/arrogance. Karen from Chicago On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:17:05 -0700 "Saragrace Knauf" writes: > Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his > britches (breeches)"?. I learned it from my mother who was from the southern > US. > > Sg > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume grace morris [17,69]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: Grace Morris Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:32:05 -0400 In North Carolina it's "too big for his britches", i.e. he's got a lot of growing up to do/behavior above his station, etc.. Grace /Jessamyn On Wednesday, June 4, 2003, at 10:17 AM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches > (breeches)"?. I learned it from my mother who was from the southern > US. > > Sg > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume tania gruning [23,70]CSuX: christian iv Subject: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Tania Gruning Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 07:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Hi all Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago. http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html Sorry about the banners and stuff, but that is the way it is. The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known picture of Christian IV as a child. I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet. Tania --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate m bunting [17,71]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come From: "Kate M Bunting" Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:06:17 +0100 The version I know (in the UK) is "too big for his boots", with similar meaning. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby >>> grace.morris@providenceday.org 06/04/03 03:32pm >>> In North Carolina it's "too big for his britches", i.e. he's got a lot of growing up to do/behavior above his station, etc.. Grace /Jessamyn h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume elizabeth hervey [29,72]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: elizabeth hervey Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Hi The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy! Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them. Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/ 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for! Tudor Links Costume page www.tudorlinks.com/textiles Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before. Bess --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [19,73]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:17:32 -0500 elizabeth hervey wrote: > Tudor Links Costume page > > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles This is a great site, and I'd never seen it before, but to get to it I had to add .html to the end: http://www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html Happy Surfing! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [21,74]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 09:30:30 -0700 (PDT) > elizabeth hervey wrote: > >> Tudor Links Costume page >> >> www.tudorlinks.com/textiles > > This is a great site, and I'd never seen it before, but to get to it I > had to add .html to the end: > > http://www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html > What a great collection of 16th C. info!! I am bookmarking this one! Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [42,75]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Drea Leed Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:13:50 -0400 (EDT) Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations and all. :} Drea On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote: > > Hi > > The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy! > > Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them. > > Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion > > www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/ > > 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for! > > Tudor Links Costume page > > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles > > Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before. > > Bess > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[17,76]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:24:02 EDT Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool. Poop. Opinions? http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the right is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two different dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [19,77]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 12:59:09 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote: > Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was > nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations > and all. So ... you're going to require them to remove it, I hope? And post a link to you? And the same for anything else they may have "borrowed"? (In my business we also ask for money and/or apologies, depending on how we feel.) --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [37,78]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Drea Leed Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:46:32 -0400 (EDT) Well, the links aren't really my property. I myself cruise other sites looking for links to interesting new elizabethan costume sites, so I can add the sites to my page. I consider it a bit rude to do wholesale cut-and-paste like this person did without telling me...but as it is, I've added a lot to my site since these links were nabbed, and have kept my links updated while some of these have fallen victim to link rot. Besides which, the more places that links to Elizabethan costume can be found on the web, the better. Drea On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Robin Netherton wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote: > > > Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was > > nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations > > and all. > > So ... you're going to require them to remove it, I hope? And post a link > to you? And the same for anything else they may have "borrowed"? > > (In my business we also ask for money and/or apologies, depending on how > we feel.) > > --Robin > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [23,79]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:23:41 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, Drea Leed wrote: > Well, the links aren't really my property. I myself cruise other sites > looking for links to interesting new elizabethan costume sites, so I > can add the sites to my page. I consider it a bit rude to do > wholesale cut-and-paste like this person did without telling me...but > as it is, I've added a lot to my site since these links were nabbed, > and have kept my links updated while some of these have fallen victim > to link rot. Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about an *article* that had been lifted, not a links list. I hadn't looked at the page. (And I thought you seemed awfully calm about it...) As Emily Litella says, "Never mind..." --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [37,80]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Kimiko Small Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 11:24:32 -0700 Hi Tania, Thanks for the link to the image. I have a baby boy, and while it will be a few years before he gets such garb, I am trying to collect as much children's images from the time period as I can to get ideas from. With your info, I have started my google search on this person. Thanks again! Kimiko At 07:49 AM 6/4/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago. > >http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html > ><> > >The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known >picture of Christian IV as a child. <> Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca[37,81]CSuX: archives? Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives? From: fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:47:33 -0400 (EDT) > On Thu, 29 May 2003, chiara wrote: > > > Well, I have them in email format. If someone can tell me how to convert > > them in mass into something downloadable I will put them on my site with the > > others. :) > > We really need a proper archive with a full-text search; Eric's is > helpful, but not as good as it could be. There are huge volumes of > valuable information in those years of postings, and I would hate for them > to be lost. I do have complete archives upto this very day - I was just deleting all of that @#$#@$ spam that the list recieved. The search engine had to be moved to a new URL because of the new version of Linux I'm running. So just go to http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion I'm just working on the May archives right now. I'd work on my archives a bit more but the twins are still a handfull. At almost 3 months old now they're just getting out of "newborn" sized clothes. At almost 10 lb Ian is starting to feel like a heavyweight. But as long as these kids are a black hole for time I've got no time to update the search engine. If anyone has a good search engine - I have all of the archives going back to the dawn of time - 1993 - Eric h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [30,82]CSuX: archives? Subject: Re: [h-cost] archives? From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 15:29:02 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 fashion@sca.uwaterloo.ca wrote: > I do have complete archives upto this very day - I was just deleting all > of that @#$#@$ spam that the list recieved. Thank you! > So just go to http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Fashion > > I'm just working on the May archives right now. > > I'd work on my archives a bit more but the twins are still a handfull... > But as long as these kids are a black hole for time I've got no time > to update the search engine. > > If anyone has a good search engine - I have all of the archives going back > to the dawn of time - 1993 Eric, you do an invaluable service making these accessible. If someone can combine forces with you to get us full-text search, that would be icing. But I'm really, really glad you're willing to do as much as you do! --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [28,83]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 03:03:31 +1000 ----- Original Message ----- > Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight > difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool. Poop. > > Opinions? > http://hometown.aol.com /loreleimorte/uk5.html > > btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the right > is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two different > dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona. > They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just my monitor but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only barely in the bottom one. I say don't worry about it. Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jean waddie [43,84]CSuX: Subject: Re: From: Jean Waddie Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:11:27 +0100 Bjarne, Don't worry about the sleeves, just follow the pattern. My mother made me a dress like this, from 400 miles away, and she didn't think it could possibly be right, but when I tried it on for the first time it was perfect. Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote >Hi. >there also is update of the francaise dress. I made the toille today. >I am a little conserned about the sleaves. They sit very long way towards >the back i think. But it fits in with the corset and when it comes to it, >they had to stand straight and push their shoulders back ok? >I have also cut the overskirt and now i am going to apply the embroidered >panels to the blue silk. I am so happy, because these 3 days off my job >every week, really pushes my work with sewing.......... >Anyway the update is here: >http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/dressdiary.html >Click at the bottom to go to the toillé draping. >Hope you enjoy! > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > -- Jean Waddie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume shea young [35,85]CSuX: madder red book Subject: [h-cost] Madder Red book From: Shea Young Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 16:13:38 -0700 Dear List, This book came through today and I don't recall it being mentioned before, but it appears to be chuck full of information! Madder Red, a history of luxury and trade, by Robert Chenciner, 2000 ISBN 0-7007-1259-3, cost $49.95 A bit of the jacket states, "The Industrial Revolution sparked a boom in printed textiles and, as a result, demand grew for wool, silk and cottons dyed bright red. An international madder race between Holland, France, Turkey, the Causasus and Central Asia got underway to supply the massive world textile market which was led by Britain. The quest for Turkey red went hand in hand with an avalanche of scientific research, which not only improved the yield of dye stuff from the roots but led to its chemical synthesis and to the inevitable collapse of the worldwide madder industry in the 1870s. May of the nascent dye companies from this period subsequently became chemical giants of our time." Included is a glossary, appendices, notes, select bibliography, several charts, lithographs, and pictures! Enjoy, Shea Shea Young ~ ~ ~ ~ "As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. JUMP! It is not as wide as you think." ~ Joesph Campbell h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [15,86]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: RE: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:23:50 -0700 Same here. ~They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just my ~monitor ~but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only barely in ~the bottom ~one. I say don't worry about it. ~Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather rose jones [28,87]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:10:08 -0700 At 7:17 AM -0700 6/4/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote: >Anyone know the origins of "He thinks he is too good for his britches >(breeches)"?. I learned it from my mother who was from the southern US. > I've always heard it as "too _big_ for his britches" (emphasis mine), which would fit better with the usual metaphoric patterns. (Consider the whole range of body-part metaphors invoking the metaphor "Size is Importance", such as "swelled head", "puffed up with importance", and so forth.) That is, I read the saying as "he's so swelled up with self-importance that his clothes don't fit anymore". I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple substitution, but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as a completely independent saying unless it were in a context where "britches" were somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's too good to wear pants") which doesn't ring any historic resonances. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lavolta press [27,88]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: Lavolta Press Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:23:52 -0700 >ore". > >I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple substitution, >but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as a completely >independent saying unless it were in a context where "britches" were >somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's too good to wear pants") or obscene! >which doesn't ring any historic resonances. I've never heard the "too good" saying, just the "too big." Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume agnes gawne [20,89]CSuX: too big for his breeches Subject: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches From: Agnes Gawne Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 17:48:39 -0700 Here's the quote from the OED with this statement in it (it is under big, not breeches, sorry. Incidentally 'britches' isn't in the OED at all so it must be an Americanism).  e. Fig. phr. to get, grow, etc., too big for one's boots (breeches, etc.), to become conceited, put on airs.     1835 D. CROCKETT Tour to North 152 When a man gets too big for his breeches, I say Good-bye. 1879 [see BOOT n.3 1c]. 1893 H. MAXWELL Life of W. H. Smith I. ii. 57 Sometimes a young man, Œtoo big for his boots¹, would..sniff at being put in charge of a railway bookstall. 1905 H. G. WELLS Kipps III. ii. §1 He's getting too big for 'is britches. 1929 W. FAULKNER Sound & Fury 270 You're getting a little too big for your pants. 1952 M. LASKI Village xv, A young man who was getting too big for his boots. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [55,90]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: "H. Law" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 00:13:03 -0500 I'd say go for it, the SCA-Garb list has been in an ongoing and fascinating discussion about differing color vision. Seems some folks see color slightly differently in each eye! *Caveat*: Haven't read the whole thing. (Apologies if this annoys folks on both lists - i've been offline for looong time) Heather L Claire Clarke wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 3:24 AM >Subject: [h-cost] Do these match enough? > > > > >>Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight >>difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool. Poop. >> >>Opinions? >>> >> >HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/uk5.html">http://hometown.aol.com >/loreleimorte/uk5.html > > >>btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the >> >> >right > > >>is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two >> >> >different > > >>dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona. >> >> > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume elizabeth hervey [21,91]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites From: elizabeth hervey Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:01:18 -0700 (PDT) Melanie's right there's .html on the end of those www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/index.html BTW very irritating for you if it's true Drea but it's nice you're generous about it & not greedy for money. It doesn't look like a commercial site to me and you're already mentioned twice in the costume page and you're on their recommended site list too http://www.tudorlinks.com/essential.html so at least if they have taken they've given too. ATB, Bess --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume elizabeth hervey [21,92]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites From: elizabeth hervey Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:46:09 -0700 (PDT) Melanie's right there's .html on the end of those www.tudorlinks.com/textiles.html www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/index.html BTW very irritating for you if it's true Drea but it's nice you're generous about it & not greedy for money. It doesn't look like a commercial site to me and you're already mentioned twice in the costume page and you're on their recommended site list too http://www.tudorlinks.com/essential.html so at least if they have taken they've given too. ATB, Bess --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [22,93]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:39:20 -0600 I'd say go for it. I can see *very* slight color differences in both the top example and the second example, but it is very slight. Good luck.... sue Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Same here. > > ~They look as near enough to make no difference to me. Maybe it's just > my > ~monitor > ~but I can't tell the difference at all in the top photo, and only > barely in > ~the bottom > ~one. I say don't worry about it. > ~Claire > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [27,94]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:42:37 -0600 Oooh! I like the fabric! And you're right, the sleeves do look sewn in.... --sue Tania Gruning wrote: > > Hi all > > Here is a link to a picture I mentioned a month or so ago. > > http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/taniagruning/index.html > > Sorry about the banners and stuff, but that is the way it is. > > The picture is painted by Hans Kniebel in 1582-84 and is the only known picture of Christian IV as a child. > > I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet. > > Tania > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [47,95]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:47:49 -0600 Yeah, parts of it certainly "sound" familiar. Lazy, at the very least, I'd think.... --sue's two pence worth... Drea Leed wrote: > > Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was > nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations > and all. > > :} > > Drea > > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy! > > > > Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them. > > > > Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion > > > > www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/ > > > > 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for! > > > > Tudor Links Costume page > > > > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles > > > > Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before. > > > > Bess > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [48,96]CSuX: too big for his breeches Subject: RE: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:37:08 -0700 Thanks to everyone for their replies and yes you all are correct, I had said it incorrectly-It was "too big" not "too good". And yes, "britches" is a an American colloquialism. Thanks again, Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Agnes Gawne ~Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 5:49 PM ~To: H-costume ~Subject: [h-cost] Too big for his breeches ~ ~Here's the quote from the OED with this statement in it (it is under big, ~not breeches, sorry. Incidentally 'britches' isn't in the OED at all so it ~must be an Americanism). ~ ~ e. Fig. phr. to get, grow, etc., too big for one's boots (breeches, etc.), ~to become conceited, put on airs. ~ ~  1835 D. CROCKETT Tour to North 152 When a man gets too big for his ~breeches, I say Good-bye. 1879 [see BOOT n.3 1c]. 1893 H. MAXWELL Life of W. ~H. Smith I. ii. 57 Sometimes a young man, Œtoo big for his boots¹, ~would..sniff at being put in charge of a railway bookstall. 1905 H. G. WELLS ~Kipps III. ii. §1 He's getting too big for 'is britches. 1929 W. FAULKNER ~Sound & Fury 270 You're getting a little too big for your pants. 1952 M. ~LASKI Village xv, A young man who was getting too big for his boots. ~ ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lisa sinervo [28,97]CSuX: do these match enough? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Do these match enough? From: "Lisa Sinervo" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 06:59:04 -0700 Sarra, wrote: > Hmm, I got all set to cut out my skirt and suddenly noticed a very slight > difference is hue between my two lengths of raspberry wool. Poop. > > Opinions? > http://hometown.aol.com /loreleimorte/uk5.html > > btw, I'm thinking about using both anyway. the slightly off one on the right > is gonna be the piecing ..maybe it's period to have to resort to two different > dye lots if you're a middle class schmuck like my persona. I wasn't able to look at the fabric as the link didn't work, but even if the fabric doesn't match perfectly, unmatched fabric would have definitely occurred more often before synthetic dyes, especially while using small dye vats. Your slightly mismatched fabric would only add to the natural beauty of your garment and might even lead to an interesting discussing of period dyeing practices and pitfalls. Lisa h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [16,98]CSuX: best breughel books Subject: [h-cost] Best Breughel Books From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:31:34 -0700 Hi guys, I am looking to buy a book on Breughel and since I live in buckwheat egypt have limited access to stores where I can actually put my hands on the books to decide what I want. If any of you have suggestions about which volumes have the best pictures I'd like to hear what they are. I'd be interested in both paintings and woodblocks of all the relatives. Thanks in advance, Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate m bunting [16,99]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: "Kate M Bunting" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:56:19 +0100 Tania wrote: >>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet. Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michael tartaglio [17,100]CSuX: best breughel books Subject: Re: [h-cost] Best Breughel Books From: michael tartaglio Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 13:29:38 -0400 Hi, All. Saragrace, both Borders Press and Taschen have books out currently. Taschen is listed as being "complete" with all of the paintings (I haven't checked whether or not this is true, I wouldn't know if it wasn't). If you can find a copy (I have one), ther is a 1963 Dover book called "Graphic Worlds of Peter Bruegel the Elder" by H. Arthur Klein that has 64 engravings in it. I wouldn't know how complete of a work there is out there, but those are my usual sources. Cheers, Mike T. > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [35,101]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: [h-cost] shocking pink From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:58:46 +0200 Hi, I dont remember if i asked you before, well i do it again. I looked in my closet, and found a bunch of silk dupionis in a plastic bag, i had forgot all about them. Well there is a shocking pink, and i tell you it is really vivid colour, but nice. I have 12 meters of it. Then i have always wanted to make a robe anglaise, with this beautifull back cut. There is a lovely pattern by Arnold in the small Kyoto book, and there is a picture of it in the large Kyoto book, dated from 1785-90, so it is rather late date for this fashion. Now i have seen in the book, there are other garments made in pink, but would my shocking pink fit in? I want to make this as a gift for a lady i have met on another list. She is reenacting with the Swedish society of Gustafs Skål, because she has offered me acomodations at her place, when i am going next month for a Grande Fete a la Nature, at the Haga Castle. A dress like this, and a black huge hat with a large pink bow, with a pink ribbon trimmed at the hat brim, how does that sound? Any suggestions, oppinions are warmly welcomed, Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[11,102]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:24:57 -0400 It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole gown/hat thing sound fantastic to me. If you ever want to come to Florida let me know and you can stay at my house. I won't even ask for a gown, just to see some of your work up close. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [36,103]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 21:38:22 +0200 Dear Lalah. Oh that is very generous of you, thankyou. Well, one never knows, but i hate fly that long, and i have a fobia about flying over water for a long time, i know it is crazy, but it is because my worst dying nightmare is drowning. When i go to England, i fly over water, i know, but it is only a short time, and i sit and think, i think we make it, i think we make it. It is crazy. Florida sounds very tempting though, i love to swim in the ocean! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole gown/hat > thing sound fantastic to me. If you ever want to come to Florida let me > know and you can stay at my house. I won't even ask for a gown, just to > see some of your work up close. > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [57,104]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 13:27:50 -0700 Bjarne, Don't forget, you don't have to fly...you can take an ocean liner like I'm going to do on my way home! And if you get as far as Florida, you really should go the extra couple thousand miles and visit me in Seattle. We have the Pacific Ocean here, I think Lalah only has the Gulf of Mexico. Pam Dotson ----- Original Message ----- > Dear Lalah. > Oh that is very generous of you, thankyou. > Well, one never knows, but i hate fly that long, and i have a fobia about > flying over water for a long time, i know it is crazy, but it is because my > worst dying nightmare is drowning. > When i go to England, i fly over water, i know, but it is only a short time, > and i sit and think, i think we make it, i think we make it. > It is crazy. > Florida sounds very tempting though, i love to swim in the ocean! > > Bjarne > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink > > > > It isn't a period I am very familiar with, but the whole gown/hat > > thing sound fantastic to me. If you ever want to come to Florida let me > > know and you can stay at my house. I won't even ask for a gown, just to > > see some of your work up close. > > > > Lalah > > Never give up, Never surrender > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [21,105]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 16:32:52 -0500 David wrote: > Bjarne, > > Don't forget, you don't have to fly...you can take an ocean liner like I'm > going to do on my way home! And if you get as far as Florida, you really > should go the extra couple thousand miles and visit me in Seattle. We > have the Pacific Ocean here, I think Lalah only has the Gulf of Mexico. Ah, but I'm closer than both of them, so you don't have to fly (or sail) so far! I'm in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, which is on the Atlantic Coast, and this is known as a beach resort town! Just let me know when you'll be dropping by... Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [17,106]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:26:00 -0700 Okay, I have to make my pitch too...when it gets really cold in winter you and your honey could always stay at my place outside Phoenix to warm up!! About the pink fabric though......I don't know that period much either, but even if it were acceptable it would probably bug me. Would you consider over-dying it? I just love vat dying in my machine and you could get the crispness back by starching it. I have used Dharma's procion dye "bronze" to tone down everything from red to green with success. Wouldn't hurt to test a piece though. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jean waddie [23,107]CSuX: where does this clothing related saying come from? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Where does this clothing related saying come from? From: Jean Waddie Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 22:28:00 +0100 Lavolta Press wrote > >>ore". >> >>I could see going from "too big" to "too good" by a simple >>substitution, but I'd have a harder time understanding "too good" as a >>completely independent saying unless it were in a context where >>"britches" were somehow considered lower class (i.e. "he think's he's >>too good to wear pants") > >or obscene! > But now we do have "too sexy for my shirt". Did that phrase exist before Right Said Fred, or is it original? Jean > -- Jean Waddie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [15,108]CSuX: a fun way to experiment with color Subject: [h-cost] A fun way to experiment with color From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 15:12:52 -0700 I think Lisa may have turned us on the other day to a shareware program that allowed you to experiment with colors. I happened to see an add for Behr paint that had a similar tool on the web. They will suggest colors and you can change them easily. You can even put them on the their virtual walls. You can create an account to save your work. It is a great way to experiment not only with paint but garb palates as well http://www.behr.com/ Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jessica stier [34,109]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: "jessica stier" Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 22:33:45 +0000 Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and was hoping to get some good advice... My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as an early graduation present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm doing a little bit of research and would love to hear the opinions of the listmembers on what your favorite type of dress form is and why. I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. I currently have one of those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally purchased in a size too small for any real use. I decided to keep it in case I had daughters or early teen sized people I was making things for. However, now I want to get a real dress form that will earn it's keep. I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and dealer of forms such as I need. I will ask at school tonight, but until then... any tips or hints on your favorite dress form and why? Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you plan on using it regularly? At school, we use the industry standard - 8. But in my mind that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a 10. Any thoughts? Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. You guys are the best!!! :) jessica Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[19,110]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:38:38 -0400 <<>> Not so. I live in Central Florida almost equally distant from the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean (about an hour and a half drive in either direction). And near enough to Disney World and Universal and Sea World that I worked at Disney for four years a while back. However if Bjarne is worried about drowning, I am not sure a ship would be better than an airplane. Personally, I don't fly anywhere unless I absolutely have to so the ship would be the answer for me. But the invitation is open for any time you (and Lief) care to come visit. As long as you aren't allergic to cats, that is. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[22,111]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:54:38 EDT I thought you didn't like your melon orange gown and now you want to make one in hot pink???? Personally I love yards of bright color, especially if it's set off with touches of some other unexpected but beautiful color. Shocking pink is a 20th century color....though I have seen a bright fuchsia 1860s ball gown. Dupioni dyes easily but will go soft and not be as crisp. Still keeps the sheen though. You might want to tone it down a little. There is a stomacher that is bright pink in Fashion in Detail, I think. It's made to look like a waistcoat and was probably worn with some type of habit [I like to imagine it with a grey]. But the pink is kinda dark if I remember correctly. There are some bright pink gowns but, like with the electric blue, they usually have some kind of pattern brocaded or embroidered all over them. You could embroider say, oh, white peonies with dark green leaves all over the 12 meters..... If you start now you may finish before you die. [actually, knowing you, you'll be done by July!] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[13,112]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 18:56:21 EDT In a message dated 6/5/2003 4:04:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > but it is because my > worst dying nightmare is drowning. > I guess a cruise is out of the question..... h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [24,113]CSuX: a fun way to experiment with color Subject: Re: [h-cost] A fun way to experiment with color From: Heather Meadows Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:49:42 -0700 I love www.colorschemer.com -- it uses traditional color wheels to generate color schemes. On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:12 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I think Lisa may have turned us on the other day to a shareware program > that allowed you to experiment with colors. I happened to see an add > for Behr paint that had a similar tool on the web. They will suggest > colors and you can change them easily. You can even put them on the > their virtual walls. You can create an account to save your work. It > is > a great way to experiment not only with paint but garb palates as well > > http://www.behr.com/ > > Sg > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [49,114]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Heather Meadows Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:53:14 -0700 I love both the Wolf and Superior dress forms. they're so incredibly durable and sturdy. and you can pad them up the same way you do with other forms... what are you planning on using it regularly for? if it's for you, then I would get one a size smaller than you are, so you can pad it up for everyday, and have it be a bit smaller than you are for corseted looks. On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 03:33 PM, jessica stier wrote: > Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and was hoping to get > some good advice... > > My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as an early > graduation present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm doing a > little bit of research and would love to hear the opinions of the > listmembers on what your favorite type of dress form is and why. > > I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. I currently have > one of those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally purchased in > a size too small for any real use. I decided to keep it in case I had > daughters or early teen sized people I was making things for. > However, now I want to get a real dress form that will earn it's keep. > > I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and dealer of forms such > as I need. I will ask at school tonight, but until then... any tips > or hints on your favorite dress form and why? > > Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you plan on using it > regularly? At school, we use the industry standard - 8. But in my > mind that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a 10. Any > thoughts? > > Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. > You guys are the best!!! > > :) jessica > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [20,115]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:06:21 -0600 A lot of the extant garments (including sleeves) in _Patterns of Fashion_, which covers Christian IV's time period, are laced in place.... --sue Kate M Bunting wrote: > > Tania wrote: > > >>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet. > > Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place? > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [33,116]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:43:09 -0600 I agree with Saragrace's idea of overdying. You could get lovely shades from rose to magenta pretty easily. I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do a "test" Gothic Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an authentic color combination in that case--I WANT it to be eye-popping. (Teddy challenged me, a couple of years ago....) I've got a purpley-fuchsia wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange velvet for a sideless surcoat. And I'll put in my pitch for Bjarne to visit my neck of the woods...we have the Rocky Mountains, bee-yootiful scenery, and no oceans at all. We get nasty winters, too, but it'd be very different from Denmark, I think... --sue, who was more peeved that clouds were blocking her view of the Atlantic than anything....but then, I like flying, and hey, coming back, I got to see the whole country of Ireland from 30,000ft+.... Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Okay, I have to make my pitch too...when it gets really cold in winter > you and your honey could always stay at my place outside Phoenix to warm > up!! About the pink fabric though......I don't know that period much > either, but even if it were acceptable it would probably bug me. Would > you consider over-dying it? I just love vat dying in my machine and you > could get the crispness back by starching it. I have used Dharma's > procion dye "bronze" to tone down everything from red to green with > success. Wouldn't hurt to test a piece though. > > Sg > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [11,117]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 19:45:35 -0600 All this talk of bright colors reminds me of something.... A few months ago, wasn't someone asking for advice on how to dye with turmeric? Well, I actually ran across instructions for same in a book on natural dyes that I happened to buy. It's supposed to make a fairly intense, *relatively* light-fast yellow, at least on wool. When I get more yarn mordanted, I'm gonna try it.... --sue h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume chris laning [39,118]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink From: Chris Laning Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 20:00:10 -0700 At 6:54 PM -0400 6/5/03, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: >I thought you didn't like your melon orange gown and now you want to make one >in hot pink???? Personally I love yards of bright color, especially if it's >set off with touches of some other unexpected but beautiful color. > >Shocking pink is a 20th century color....though I have seen a bright fuchsia >1860s ball gown. Dupioni dyes easily but will go soft and not be as crisp. >Still keeps the sheen though. You might want to tone it down a little. There's a natural dye called orchil or archil that's made from certain species of lichen -- I brewed up a batch of it a number of years ago -- which can produce anything from a hot, almost fluorescent pink to a similarly vivid sort of purplish fuchsia -- the only natural dye I've ever seen that *clashes* with other natural dyes. (Unfortunately it isn't terribly light-fast.) Orchil was originally imported from around the Mediterranean until Europeans figured out how to make it, but it's been known in Europe since at least the third century. Admittedly, the documentary evidence is mostly about its use in recipes for faking a Tyrian purple color, or for stretching a limited supply of the expensive stuff to cover more yarn or fabric. There are also other, mostly rather vague bits of evidence for the use of orchil or something like it in parts of "Dark Age" Europe, specifically in Scandinavia and in Gaul. So it was at least _possible_ to produce a sort of "shocking pink" color even before the age of aniline dyes; the question then would be whether it was used alone, and if so, how popular it was. I certainly agree that there is far more "shocking pink" in the 20th century than in any previous era :) -- O Chris Laning | + Davis, California h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [19,119]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:36:17 -0400 On Thursday 05 June 2003 09:43 pm, Sue Clemenger wrote: > I agree with Saragrace's idea of overdying. You could get lovely shades > from rose to magenta pretty easily. Though I think Lalah made a good point--test dye a small piece first. It would be sad to ruin perfectly good silk in the name of authenticity. [rest cut] -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [26,120]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Kimiko Small Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 20:48:30 -0700 At 07:45 PM 6/5/2003 -0600, you wrote: >A few months ago, wasn't someone asking for advice on how to dye with >turmeric? Well, I actually ran across instructions for same in a book on >natural dyes that I happened to buy. Hi Sue, Mind sharing the name of that book? Any idea how well it dyes yellow on Linen? I am willing to test it myself sometime, but just wondering. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [16,121]CSuX: h-costume meeting netherlands?? Subject: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands?? From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 13:10:48 +0200 Hi, Since so many people are saying that they would like to meet I've got an idea. What about meeting eachother somewere in the Netherlands next year or so? (Less problems with water for Bjarne ;-) ) I would be glad to organise such an event. Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[20,122]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:15:58 -0500 Hello Everyone, I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue? Karen The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ms berard [33,123]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: Ms Berard Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 08:51:34 -0500 If you have any extra pearls you may wish to see what "oxygen cleaners" do to them. That would be the biggest concern. Since you've never used a bleach and it is not an antique there shouldn't be any adverse chemical reactions, but long term stability is always a question with anything that is "new". Onaree seamstrix@juno.com wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a > bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the > past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire > season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was > wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to > the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue? > > Karen > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! -- Proud list mom of Irish Crochet Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stephen bergdahl [15,124]CSuX: email change Subject: [h-cost] Email Change From: "Stephen Bergdahl" Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:36:16 -0700 To those of you who don't know already I have changed my Email for madly@2xtreme.net to madlystitching@earthlink.net Please make note of this. Stephen Bergdahl - Lord Vich "I don't suffer from insanity! I fact I rather enjoy it!" h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[27,125]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: RE: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 10:03:28 -0400 You will laugh, but grandma, who has a full set of teeth, uses denture-cleaning tablets (efferdent)to take organic stains out of fine washables. We did this to restore the silk and linen christening gown set her grandmother was christened in so my children could wear it. Before the treatment, the fabric was on the yellow side of "cream"...now it's alabaster white. :) Constance seamstrix@juno.com wrote: >Hello Everyone, > > >I have a silk and pearl Elizabethan partlet that is starting to look a >bit grungy around the neck. I have hand washed it with mild soap in the >past, but I'd really like to get it clean for the start of my RenFaire >season. I know that using bleach on it is a big ol' no-no, but I was >wondering if I could use the new oxygen cleaners for an added punch to >the wash. Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue? > > >Karen > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie wilson [15,126]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: "Melanie Wilson" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:14:51 +0100 Do you have vanish there ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[18,127]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:53:25 -0500 Over here Vanish is a toilet bowl cleaner. 8-) Karen On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:14:51 +0100 "Melanie Wilson" writes: > Do you have vanish there ? > > Mel The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie wilson [17,128]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: "Melanie Wilson" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 15:31:19 +0100 Here it is a rather nifty stain remover :) Do you want some ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [31,129]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: [h-cost] shocking pink From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 16:32:47 +0200 Hi. I asked an expert (lady who has ben reenacting in Gustafs Skål for many years) She advised me not to use the shocking pink. She said that a lot of the members would be making a lot of comments on that colour, and i think she is right. Well, what do i do then, should i overdye it, or should i perhaps boil it and hope some of the colour would dissapear, then i could make a round gown worn late in the century in stead. If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the thoaght about making an english gown would not go with it, Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole thing. Buy some new fabric for a robe anglaise. Many greetings Bjarne. Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jessica stier [41,130]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT - Dress form From: "jessica stier" Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:44:22 +0000 Thanks for your help! I think the tip about getting a size smaller then myself so I can pad it up is a good idea. It's not something I had factured in. I love to sew and do so fairly often. However, I have the hardest time (as does everyone else...) finding patterns that fit me perfectly, so I really want to use it to assist me in making clothes that fit better. I also LOVE to drape. My last quarter was a draping 1 and 2 class and really turned me onto the idea of making custom fitted items with out using my ruler (very much...). It was just so much fun that I really want to be able to do it all the time!!!!! Thanks again for your help. :) jessica >Message: 14 >Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 16:53:14 -0700 >From: Heather Meadows >Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form >To: Historical Costume >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > >I love both the Wolf and Superior dress forms. they're so incredibly >durable and sturdy. and you can pad them up the same way you >do with other forms... > >what are you planning on using it regularly for? if it's for you, then >I would >get one a size smaller than you are, so you can pad it up for everyday, >and have it be a bit smaller than you are for corseted looks. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [17,131]CSuX: shocking pink-don t give up!! Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink-don't give up!! From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:48:10 -0700 Bjarne! Don't give up! It will be so cool and you will be doubly proud of it! You can put the crispness back into it with sizing. I think you should over-dye it rather than boil it in the hopes that the color will come out. Try the vat dyeing. See how easy it is here: http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/vat_dye.html and look at your color selection: http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3796-AA.shtml Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [71,132]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Jessica-- What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress form and my overlock machine. My own personal preference for dress forms is the Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself. IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost more. Dawn --- jessica stier wrote: > Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and > was hoping to get some > good advice... > > My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as > an early graduation > present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm > doing a little bit of > research and would love to hear the opinions of the > listmembers on what your > favorite type of dress form is and why. > > I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. > I currently have one of > those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally > purchased in a size too > small for any real use. I decided to keep it in > case I had daughters or > early teen sized people I was making things for. > However, now I want to get > a real dress form that will earn it's keep. > > I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and > dealer of forms such as I > need. I will ask at school tonight, but until > then... any tips or hints on > your favorite dress form and why? > > Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you > plan on using it > regularly? At school, we use the industry standard > - 8. But in my mind > that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a > 10. Any thoughts? > > Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. > You guys are the best!!! > > :) jessica > > > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [24,133]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:04:37 -0700 (PDT) --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do > a "test" Gothic > Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an > authentic color > combination in that case--I WANT it to be > eye-popping. (Teddy > challenged me, a couple of years ago....) I've > got a purpley-fuchsia > wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange > velvet for a sideless > surcoat. Yowza! Thank ghod for sunglasses. 8-D I want to see picture when you get it finished. It should be something! ;-) Dawn h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume gail & scott finke [15,134]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink From: Gail & Scott Finke Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 12:21:35 -0400 I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume legends. I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast tour staying free with all the list members! Gail Finke h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katy bishop [88,135]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Katy Bishop Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:41:16 -0400 (EDT) I second the Uniquely You. It's also great if you use it for multiple people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into a period shape. I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large. Another plus is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays. Katy On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: >Jessica-- > >What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money >to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress >form and my overlock machine. > >My own personal preference for dress forms is the >Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton >cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) >adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had >one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on >it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my >own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally >use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself. > >IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the >Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost >more. > >Dawn >--- jessica stier wrote: >> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and >> was hoping to get some >> good advice... >> >> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as >> an early graduation >> present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm >> doing a little bit of >> research and would love to hear the opinions of the >> listmembers on what your >> favorite type of dress form is and why. >> >> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. >> I currently have one of >> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally >> purchased in a size too >> small for any real use. I decided to keep it in >> case I had daughters or >> early teen sized people I was making things for. >> However, now I want to get >> a real dress form that will earn it's keep. >> >> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and >> dealer of forms such as I >> need. I will ask at school tonight, but until >> then... any tips or hints on >> your favorite dress form and why? >> >> Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you >> plan on using it >> regularly? At school, we use the industry standard >> - 8. But in my mind >> that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a >> 10. Any thoughts? >> >> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. >> You guys are the best!!! >> >> :) jessica >> >> >> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >> > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [98,136]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT) I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms... about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never seemed quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit right on the form. > > > I second the Uniquely You. It's also great if you use it for multiple > people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into > a period shape. I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large. Another plus > is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays. > > Katy > > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > >Jessica-- > > > >What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money > >to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress > >form and my overlock machine. > > > >My own personal preference for dress forms is the > >Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton > >cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) > >adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had > >one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on > >it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my > >own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally > >use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself. > > > >IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the > >Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost > >more. > > > >Dawn > >--- jessica stier wrote: > >> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and > >> was hoping to get some > >> good advice... > >> > >> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as > >> an early graduation > >> present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm > >> doing a little bit of > >> research and would love to hear the opinions of the > >> listmembers on what your > >> favorite type of dress form is and why. > >> > >> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. > >> I currently have one of > >> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally > >> purchased in a size too > >> small for any real use. I decided to keep it in > >> case I had daughters or > >> early teen sized people I was making things for. > >> However, now I want to get > >> a real dress form that will earn it's keep. > >> > >> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and > >> dealer of forms such as I > >> need. I will ask at school tonight, but until > >> then... any tips or hints on > >> your favorite dress form and why? > >> > >> Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you > >> plan on using it > >> regularly? At school, we use the industry standard > >> - 8. But in my mind > >> that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a > >> 10. Any thoughts? > >> > >> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. > >> You guys are the best!!! > >> > >> :) jessica > >> > >> > >> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > >> > >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > >> > > > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [32,137]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink From: Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:02:07 -0000 Didn't someone recently mention trying to dye silk, and it lost it's body? Maybe that was the 18thC list. The silk taffeta became more crepe-like, and there was no convincing it otherwise. Anyway, here's a silly idea - why not exchange it with someone for a color you like? Everyone has a fabric stash, and maybe someone with a better 18thC color would really like the shocking pink silk for another project. The cost of postage is probably less than the time to dye and attempt to re-size the fabric, and the outcome is more predictable. I think a Bjarne US tour is a great idea! My own house is unsuitable for guests (I can't even sew, that's how under-construction it is) but I'll be happy to join you for dinner in the DC area. -Carol Gail & Scott Finke said: > I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I > don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume > legends. > > I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take > medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast > tour staying free with all the list members! > > Gail Finke h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kathryn wolters [27,138]CSuX: h-costume meeting netherlands?? Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands?? From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:50:37 -0700 (PDT) That sounds like such a neat idea---especially since my husband still has family over there:) Albra(decloaking for a moment) Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, Since so many people are saying that they would like to meet I've got an idea. What about meeting eachother somewere in the Netherlands next year or so? (Less problems with water for Bjarne ;-) ) I would be glad to organise such an event. Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[14,139]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:48:59 -0400 <<>> I washed my pearl covered partlet with Oxy Clean and it came out just fine. Don't know how silk would react, but it sure didn't hurt the pearls. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[9,140]CSuX: h-costume meeting netherlands?? Subject: Re: [h-cost] H-costume meeting Netherlands?? From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:47:13 -0400 How I wish I could do that. Finances and cats don't allow me to go anywhere overnight. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katy bishop [106,141]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: "Katy Bishop" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:56:12 -0500 I have a Uniquely You, but need to re-fit it, as I've lost weight since the purchase a few years ago. Where do I get extra covers? ********************** Rebecca Schmitt aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence A room without books is like a body without a soul ---Cicero lotsofteapots@charter.net ********************** ----- Original Message ----- > > I second the Uniquely You. It's also great if you use it for multiple > people as you just put on a customised cover, and you can corset it into > a period shape. I have 3: teeny, my size and extra large. Another plus > is that it is very light to lug with you to shows/displays. > > Katy > > On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > >Jessica-- > > > >What a lovely gift! My grandmother gave me the money > >to buy 2 things when I graduated college: a good dress > >form and my overlock machine. > > > >My own personal preference for dress forms is the > >Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton > >cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) > >adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had > >one for nearly 20 years now, and am completely sold on > >it--I can pin into it (I use it to drape toiles for my > >own costumes), put underpinnings on it, and generally > >use it a lot when I'm building stuff for myself. > > > >IIRC, you can pick one up for about $130 via the > >Internet; in a retail store it will probably cost > >more. > > > >Dawn > >--- jessica stier wrote: > >> Sorry for the OT post, but I trust your opinions and > >> was hoping to get some > >> good advice... > >> > >> My mother-in-law is going to buy me a dress form as > >> an early graduation > >> present. She wants me to pick it out and so I'm > >> doing a little bit of > >> research and would love to hear the opinions of the > >> listmembers on what your > >> favorite type of dress form is and why. > >> > >> I'd really like to get a professional/durable form. > >> I currently have one of > >> those flimsy adjustable forms that we accidentally > >> purchased in a size too > >> small for any real use. I decided to keep it in > >> case I had daughters or > >> early teen sized people I was making things for. > >> However, now I want to get > >> a real dress form that will earn it's keep. > >> > >> I'm having a hard time pinpointing the maker and > >> dealer of forms such as I > >> need. I will ask at school tonight, but until > >> then... any tips or hints on > >> your favorite dress form and why? > >> > >> Also, size-wize... what size would you get if you > >> plan on using it > >> regularly? At school, we use the industry standard > >> - 8. But in my mind > >> that is just a bit too small. I'm thinking about a > >> 10. Any thoughts? > >> > >> Thanks for tolerating my OT conversation and typos. > >> You guys are the best!!! > >> > >> :) jessica > >> > >> > >> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > >> > >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > >> > > > > > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com > Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stacey [23,142]CSuX: uniquely you Subject: [h-cost] Uniquely You From: Stacey Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:16:03 -0700 (PDT) I, too, would like to know if Uniquely You makes other covers. I think that's the model I got, used. The top half measurements are just like mine, but the bottom half is too small. Although I'm trying to make my measurements to match the form, I need to pad it out a bit with some firm batting. ...OK, I found that the Farthingales site sells them new and recommends simply letting out the seams on the outer cover. Since mine is older, I'll have to see if there's enough allowance for that. Pictures at 11:00 ... Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [26,143]CSuX: silk cleaning question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk Cleaning Question From: Kimiko Small Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:10:24 -0700 At 08:15 AM 6/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Anybody have any experience or insight as to this issue? All I know is that it can really get the ground in dirt that accumulates on bras, that bleach didn't even touch. I let them soak for a half hour before washing and rinsing. Do you have a spare piece of silk and a few pearls that you can get dirty and use as a tester? Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [51,144]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:30:41 -0700 (PDT) --- Heather Meadows wrote: > I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely > you forms... > about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they > almost > uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never > seemed > quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours > getting the fit > right on the form. > Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress forms. Were the people in your draping class trying to fit the cover themselves, or did they get help from someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer help me with this process, as the cover must fit absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form. The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack" size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from other retailers). They can also be difficult to store and transport, because they have a very heavy iron stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over easily). I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are: When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby (still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it. These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather than a dress form that gets only periodic use. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jessica stier [45,145]CSuX: ot dress forms Subject: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms From: "jessica stier" Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:28:34 +0000 Thanks for the opinions. This is one of those purchases that I really want to make a good decision so that it will be durable and sturdy for many years of use. I looked up the Uniquely You form online and found this website: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/judy.htm I think you can purchase extra covers from them too, I believe. You could email them and ask. She responds really quickly and gives great answers. I emailed a list of questions to Linda at Farthingales and she responded really quickly with very honest answers. I was impressed with her candor. I am quite concerned about the sturdiness of the dress form and she mentioned that I might want to attach the feet to a piece of plywood to make it more sturdy. She says that when she uses hers she has to put her foot on the base to help stabilize it. I am also wondering about the fact that the shoulders are not collapsible. Has anyone who owns one had any problems with removing fitted bodices with out being able to collapse the shoulders? Dawn, or anyone else who has a Uniquely You form... Do you think the foam is withstanding the test of time? Linda suggested that I make a jersey cover for it so that the foam didn't flake and crumble in the areas that are frequently pinned. Would you also suggest doing this (if I choose this form...)? Heather... Interesting about the comments brought up by school. I wonder why it would be difficult to use? Any ideas on that? Thanks again for all your opinions and help! I really want to make an informed and smart decision. :) jessica Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jasper hampton [27,146]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: [h-cost] Re: Inventory & Costume Sites From: Jasper Hampton Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Think before you post. Archive h-costume messages are made available online for the public. So we need to take care about what we post. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND this thread, including mine, should be DELETED or KEPT BACK from the public archives, to avoid recriminations and accusations of slander or sour grapes in the future. If anyone thought Tudor Links copied from Drea's site they would have emailed them directly to enquire instead of posting comment here. If they did not want to ask, they should have kept their complaints to themselves. I've already seen the Tudor Links site. Their 'Textiles and Costume page' already linked to a stack of sites Drea only added to hers recently, and still have some she doesn't. Out of the whole page there are only 2-3 links that might possibly have been copied directly. Sue says it's familiar. Well most pages of renaissance costume links have the same ones over and over these days and sometimes copied from others but no-one picks on them. And the 'Textiles and Costume page' is only one of several pages on this site. They might not have taken anything from her site at all. I checked out their About This Site page http://www.tudorlinks.com/about.html. They ask people to email suggestions. One of Drea's fans could have sent the links in so it may not be Tudor Links fault anyway. They say they're not a commercial site. They're not selling advertising, saying they're experts or selling goods just truly sharing. I think we should all pause before hitting that 'send' button next time. h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: Send h-costume mailing list submissions to h-costume@mail.indra.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to h-costume-request@mail.indra.com You can reach the person managing the list at h-costume-owner@mail.indra.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of h-costume digest..." sue clemenger [56,147]CSuX: inventory & costume sites Subject: Re: [h-cost] Inventory & Costume Sites From: Sue Clemenger Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 06:47:49 -0600 Yeah, parts of it certainly "sound" familiar. Lazy, at the very least, I'd think.... --sue's two pence worth... Drea Leed wrote: > > Hm, interesting....looks like the section on "Dress around the world" was > nabbed off my site as it stood a few months back, Title misCapitalizations > and all. > > :} > > Drea > > On Wed, 4 Jun 2003, elizabeth hervey wrote: > > > > > Hi > > > > The Inventory of Henry VIII is also £80 from Amazon.co.uk. Orders from England are no problem and they don't charge p&p on orders over £39, so this is a good time to buy! > > > > Two costume URLs I think you'll like & apologies to any who've already seen them. > > > > Ladies Treasury of Costume and Fashion > > > > www.tudorlinks.com/treasury/ > > > > 1 of my costuming finds of 2002. Victorian and Edwardian costumes and needlework. The articles are well-written and very informative and there are original patterns put online free. Can't wait to find a victim to make those men's drawers for! > > > > Tudor Links Costume page > > > > www.tudorlinks.com/textiles > > > > Unusually this Tudor site's got a page of links to costume sites with some I'd never seen before. > > > > Bess --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [35,148]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:43:00 -0700 (PDT) --- lotsofteapots@charter.net wrote: > I have a Uniquely You, but need to re-fit it, as > I've lost weight since the > purchase a few years ago. Where do I get extra > covers? > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > aka Agnes Cabot, wife of Master Peter Cabot > BRF FOF; Guilde of St. Lawrence > > A room without books is like a body without a soul > ---Cicero > > lotsofteapots@charter.net > ********************** Try SewTrue (http://www.sewtrue.com). I know they sell the dress form, and they probably sell the covers separately. Not affiliated; simply a satisfied customer. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [64,149]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:46:37 -0700 (PDT) yes, they actually worked together in another class with a professional fitter to fit their covers. they just didn't like working with them as well as Wolf and SUperior forms. They're built very differently, and the sturdier forms are a lot easier to use. They're also about 3 to 4 times as expensive, so they certainly aren't for most home sewers. > > --- Heather Meadows wrote: > > I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely > > you forms... > > about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they > > almost > > uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never > > seemed > > quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours > > getting the fit > > right on the form. > > > > Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own > them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress > forms. > > Were the people in your draping class trying to fit > the cover themselves, or did they get help from > someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate > enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer > help me with this process, as the cover must fit > absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form. > > The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior > dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack" > size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They > are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from > other retailers). They can also be difficult to store > and transport, because they have a very heavy iron > stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over > easily). > > I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are: > When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby > (still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and > didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it. > These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment > I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather > than a dress form that gets only periodic use. > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [92,150]CSuX: ot dress forms Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:50:53 -0700 (PDT) --- jessica stier wrote: > > Thanks for the opinions. This is one of those > purchases that I really want > to make a good decision so that it will be durable > and sturdy for many years > of use. > > I looked up the Uniquely You form online and found > this website: > > http://www.farthingales.on.ca/judy.htm > > I think you can purchase extra covers from them too, > I believe. You could > email them and ask. She responds really quickly and > gives great answers. > > I emailed a list of questions to Linda at > Farthingales and she responded > really quickly with very honest answers. I was > impressed with her candor. > > I am quite concerned about the sturdiness of the > dress form and she > mentioned that I might want to attach the feet to a > piece of plywood to make > it more sturdy. She says that when she uses hers > she has to put her foot on > the base to help stabilize it. > > I am also wondering about the fact that the > shoulders are not collapsible. > Has anyone who owns one had any problems with > removing fitted bodices with > out being able to collapse the shoulders? > > Dawn, or anyone else who has a Uniquely You form... > Do you think the foam > is withstanding the test of time? Linda suggested > that I make a jersey > cover for it so that the foam didn't flake and > crumble in the areas that are > frequently pinned. Would you also suggest doing > this (if I choose this > form...)? > > Heather... Interesting about the comments brought > up by school. I wonder > why it would be difficult to use? Any ideas on > that? > > Thanks again for all your opinions and help! I > really want to make an > informed and smart decision. > > :) jessica > Jessica-- I bought mine in May 1984, have used it extensively since, and it looks almost brand-new. I did cover the exposed foam at the top (neck and arm holes) with cotton knit (an old ripped-up T-shirt), simply because I didn't like the look of the exposed foam, and because I tend to use the top of the neck as a pincushion when I'm draping something. Mine isn't "tippy," but I would think that you could put a couple of bags of beans or the little sand bags photographers use to stabilze their tripods on the feet and make it more secure. I've never had any problem getting the shoulders out of bodices; getting a very narrow waist over the top can be a bit tricky, but over the years I've started making the openings a tiny bit larger to accommodate; it means it's usually easier to get a dress on or off with already-done hair a bit easier too. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [50,151]CSuX: shocking pink-don t give up!! Subject: RE: [h-cost] shocking pink-don't give up!! From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:06:10 +0200 Dear Saragrace. Thanks for your advises, but I dont have my own washingmachine, we use shared washingmachines in this house with all the other flats, and it is not allowed to use dyes in them. And secondly, when i have washed shirts in dupioni, they gets full of crinkles because you wash, and you cant get those out again. It has happened for me several times, even if it is handwasned. Those crinkle marks is impossible to get rid of! It could be fun to make some experiments, but i dont have enough time for that. I must get the embroidered dress finished in 14 days, because i go to Stockholm 26. of july, and i want to make a costume for the lady i am going to stay with. So i will be very buisy. No i have desided to go hunting for a lovely taffeta somewhere in Copenhagen, A cream coloured one i think. But thanks for the advises Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Bjarne! Don't give up! It will be so cool and you will be doubly proud > of it! You can put the crispness back into it with sizing. I think you > should over-dye it rather than boil it in the hopes that the color will > come out. Try the vat dyeing. See how easy it is here: > http://www.dharmatrading.com/info/vat_dye.html > and look at your color selection: > http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3796-AA.shtml > > > Sg > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume gail & scott finke [37,152]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: [h-cost] Re: shocking pink From: "Gail & Scott Finke" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:08:53 +0200 Chokles! Laughs :-) That would be lovely, very tempting, but i think i want to skip......... Very nice offers from you all. I have a job here to take care of and i have not got the time right now, so many schedules to catch. It would have ben lovely though, and very interresting Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > > I thought shocking pink was a historical color, good for many periods. I > don't know where I heard that, though. Maybe it's one of those costume > legends. > > I think Bjarne needs to take a tour of the USA! Get on the plane, take > medicine to make you fall asleep, and then you can take the coast to coast > tour staying free with all the list members! > > Gail Finke > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [24,153]CSuX: o.t. launch of an 18th century china vessel Subject: [h-cost] o.t. Launch of an 18th century China Vessel From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:36:15 +0200 Hi. I just looked at the tv; the launch of a true copy of a swedish cargo wessel bound for China. "Gøteborg" is the name like the original. Everything on it was handmade, even the sails is going to be hand sewed. It will cost 300 million swedish kr. It was such a beautifull sight, wished you saw it! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [38,154]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:01:32 -0700 (PDT) --- Heather Meadows wrote: > yes, they actually worked together in another class > with a professional fitter to fit their covers. > > they just didn't like working with them as well as > Wolf and SUperior forms. They're built very > differently, and the sturdier forms are a lot easier > to use. They're also about 3 to 4 times as > expensive, > so they certainly aren't for most home sewers. Nor most smaller costume shops. The last time I remember seeing more than just 1 in a shop was on a tour of the costume shop at the Burbank Studios in the mid-1980s. I also remember the designer/shop head at LAVCC saying once that if you ever saw a Wolf or Superior for sale at a yard sale or other, snap it up, because they were bloody expensive if you had to buy them new. Oddly, my mother-in-law was a home sewer who had a custom-made Wolf. I believe my husband's great-uncle, who was a master tailor in the schmatte trade, got it for her at a sizeable discount. My sister-in-law has it now (what would I do with a size 4 Wolf anyway?). Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume allison pace [24,155]CSuX: uniquely you dress form Subject: [h-cost] Re: uniquely you dress form From: Allison Pace Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:16:14 -0500 On Friday, June 6, 2003, Dawn wrote: > My own personal preference for dress forms is the > Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton > cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) > adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've had Dawn - this sounds great! But my problem with standard sizing is that I my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips and I am short-waisted, so more often than not, the "standard" sizes of anything need major alterations. Do you think the Uniquely You zip-up cover can be altered for extreme size differences on the same body? My DTD isn't a good mold of me (a non-sewing friend helped me and I think she was too cautious with the topography.) And And if I could fit the cover to myself, then put it over the form, I wouldn't need any help! Thanks! Allison h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [36,156]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Really? I see them in all the shops I've been in. You can get them on eBay for about $200, sometimes. You can get them for around $500 new if you are an educational organization, also Dress-Rite sells very similar quality forms for $550, I think. I know many individuals that own them for smaller shops. > Nor most smaller costume shops. The last time I > remember seeing more than just 1 in a shop was on a > tour of the costume shop at the Burbank Studios in the > mid-1980s. I also remember the designer/shop head at > LAVCC saying once that if you ever saw a Wolf or > Superior for sale at a yard sale or other, snap it up, > because they were bloody expensive if you had to buy > them new. > > Oddly, my mother-in-law was a home sewer who had a > custom-made Wolf. I believe my husband's great-uncle, > who was a master tailor in the schmatte trade, got it > for her at a sizeable discount. My sister-in-law has > it now (what would I do with a size 4 Wolf anyway?). > > Dawn > > ===== > Dawn Jacobson > Vallejo, CA, USA > > Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume allison pace [22,157]CSuX: dress forms Subject: [h-cost] Re: dress forms From: Allison Pace Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 15:25:03 -0500 On Friday, June 6, 2003, Heather wrote: > I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms... > about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost > uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never seemed > quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit > right on the form. So, Heather, is there another one you would recommend? I am on what seems like a never-ending quest for a good dress form. I have a mostly unusable Duct-tape-double of me, and I will probably make a paper tape double of my Elizabethan-corsetted self, but I could sure use a "real" me form for mundane wear. TIA, Allison h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [40,158]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 16:35:45 -0500 Heather Meadows wrote: > I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely you forms... > about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they almost > uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never seemed > quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours getting the fit > right on the form. I also much prefer a Wolf or Superior form for draping. I'm a professional costumer, professor, and shop manager, and when I had to order everything to set up a university shop last year, I ordered just two Wolf forms rather than a bunch of foam ones. I concur with getting one a little small and padding it up--that's what I've always done. You'll especially need to pad the behind, as unlike most women these forms are flat in the back. Though they are extremely expensive, I find them worth it. The foam ones drive me bats unless I need a corsetted shape. Of course, I don't own ANY dress forms of my own, since I can always use the ones at work, so my perspective is different. Heather Meadows wrote: > also Dress-Rite sells > very similar quality forms for $550, I think. I know > many individuals that own them for smaller shops. I have used a Dress-Rite and not liked it. They have a very tough covering that is difficult to pin into, and it frustrated me every time I tried to drape on it. The one that I was using also had a strange shape--it was meant to be a male 44 with a bit of a belly, which was good, but it had the most terrible roundness in the shoulders across the back. I always had to compensate for the "slouch" in the form. Good luck finding what's right for you, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume tania gruning [29,159]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Tania Gruning Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:43:11 -0700 (PDT) The reason I think this is an unusual feature is, that it is my understanding that most sleeves were accessories and tied into the clothing. I do not think I have seen another portrait from the period with the sleeves sewn into the doublet. This feature might be a regional thing to the danish court or it might have something to do with Christian being a child. The fabric is gorgous, but I am now, after further study of the picture, in doubt as wether it is a brocade or gold embroidered velvet. The amount of work if it was indeed embroidered velvet would have been outragous, but the decorations on the skirt of the doublet is in the same theme as the main doublet, but is not the same. Tania Kate M Bunting wrote: Tania wrote: >>>I really like this doublet, but it does have an unusual detail, as far as I can see the sleeves are sewn into the doublet. Do you mean as opposed to tied on? I've noticed that 16th/17th century costumes in films sometimes have the sleeves only partially attached, but not seen any written references to them not being sewn on. I know some types of garment had elaborate detachable sleeves, but for a standard doublet with the sleeves matching the body, why would they not be stitched in place? Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [17,160]CSuX: christian iv Subject: Re: [h-cost] Christian IV From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 17:15:13 -0500 Tania Gruning wrote: > The reason I think this is an unusual feature is, that it is my understanding that most sleeves were accessories and tied into the clothing. I do not think I have seen another portrait from the period with the sleeves sewn into the doublet. Well, in most portraits it's hard to tell whether the sleeves are sewn in or laced in, but IIRC in Arnold's Patterns of Fashion most of the doublet sleeves are sewn in. I'd check, but it's at work and I'm not. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[13,161]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:40:46 EDT In a message dated 6/6/2003 10:40:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the thoaght > about making an english gown would not go with it, > Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole thing. > What....you didn't like my embroidery idea? ;-) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume judy mitchell [38,162]CSuX: uniquely you dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] uniquely you dress form From: Judy Mitchell Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 18:01:30 -0400 Allison Pace wrote: > Dawn - this sounds great! But my problem with standard sizing is that I > my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips and I am short-waisted, > so more often than not, the "standard" sizes of anything need major > alterations. Do you think the Uniquely You zip-up cover can be altered > for extreme size differences on the same body? Have you considered a Fabulous Fit ? Joann's online also sells them (which is nice if you combine it with a 40% off coupon). They are a hard foam base model that you can pin into and then with their 2 slip-on jerseys you add in extra pads and padding to get your own exact shape. While you are "supposed" to add the shaped pads beneath both jersey covers, I couldn't do that so I just slipped them in between which was much easier. Yes, I did have to wrestle with it for most of a day checking and re-checking my meausurements and adjusting the padding to match everywhere. But it is specifically designed so that you can adapt for short or long waisted, or one shoulder higher, or round backed, or any number of anomalies. I figured that one day of semi-frustrated wrestling by myself was worth having a pinnable form that is as close to me as I'm going to get. And of course since it's all tailored to match by stuffing, you can always add or subtract as you change or need to change for corseting. Once it's set up, it is squishable and the they told me when I asked that many museum have bought them for permanent clohting displays that use corseting. It's a thought. -Judy Mitchell h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[18,163]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:54:26 EDT In a message dated 6/6/2003 6:46:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole > thing. > Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed bodice and the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and part of the skirt with an open white lace. Albert "can't stop designing" Cat h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katy bishop [67,164]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Katy Bishop Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 20:32:08 -0400 (EDT) I do find with the "uniquely you" I need to add a fitted neck piece and short sleeves to accomodate my narrow shoulders--but I love the flexibility of being able to corset it for many eras. Katy On Fri, 6 Jun 2003, Dawn Jacobson wrote: >--- Heather Meadows wrote: >> I would have to differ in opinion on the uniquely >> you forms... >> about 1/3 of my draping class used them, and they >> almost >> uniformly hated them. they tipped over, they never >> seemed >> quite accurate, and they spent hours and hours >> getting the fit >> right on the form. >> > >Interesting, as I know a great many costumers that own >them, and all seem to be very happy with their dress >forms. > >Were the people in your draping class trying to fit >the cover themselves, or did they get help from >someone with fitting experience? I was fortunate >enough to have a very experienced fitter and costumer >help me with this process, as the cover must fit >absolutely skin tight to get an accurate dress form. > >The big problems that I've found with Wolf & Superior >dress forms is that unless you are an "off the rack" >size, you have to have it custom-made for you. They >are also VERY expensive ($425 from SewTrue; more from >other retailers). They can also be difficult to store >and transport, because they have a very heavy iron >stand (it's also the reason they don't tip over >easily). > >I guess it's all in what someone's priorities are: >When I bought my Uniquely You, I costumed as a hobby >(still do), could not afford a custom-fit Wolf, and >didn't have the room in a 1-bedroom apartment for it. >These days, I'd rather spend the money on equipment >I'll use more often (like a gravity-feed iron), rather >than a dress form that gets only periodic use. > >Dawn > >===== >Dawn Jacobson >Vallejo, CA, USA > >Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume gail & scott finke [12,165]CSuX: visit bjarne Subject: [h-cost] Re: visit bjarne From: Gail & Scott Finke Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 20:45:55 -0400 Well, Bjarne, if you won't come visit us we'll have to come visit you. Where will you put us all? Gail Finke h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katy bishop [17,166]CSuX: ot dress forms Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: OT Dress Forms From: Katy Bishop Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:02:18 -0400 (EDT) I've had 2 of my Uniquely Yous for about 15-17 years, they are holding up very well. The foam on one is exposed at neck and arm, it has turned yellow but is not crumbling. Just about any place that sells the forms sells additional covers (you could also make your own fairly easily). The lowest price I've found is in the range of $130. Do a google search on the web and many site come up selling it. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net www.VintageVictorian.com Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. Publisher of the Vintage Dress Series books. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [36,167]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Sue Clemenger Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:07:25 -0600 It's intended for dual use--to work through the process of building a fitted gown based on what I learned from Robin's workshop, and to serve as a "hangover revenge" outfit for SCA camping events. I don't drink, you see, or party late into the evening, and find myself resenting the noise from those who do. So, I can where this when I'm up bright and early, and stun the hung-over with the color combination. If I actually get it done it time AND get over my extreme camera phobia, I'll think of submitting to Penny's annual Halloween Costume Ball.... --sue Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > --- Sue Clemenger wrote: > > > I've got shocking pink wool and matching linen to do > > a "test" Gothic > > Fitted Gown, but I'm distinctly _not_ going for an > > authentic color > > combination in that case--I WANT it to be > > eye-popping. (Teddy > > challenged me, a couple of years ago....) I've > > got a purpley-fuchsia > > wool for an overgown, AND some tangerine-orange > > velvet for a sideless > > surcoat. > > Yowza! Thank ghod for sunglasses. 8-D > > I want to see picture when you get it finished. It > should be something! ;-) > > Dawn h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [45,168]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 08:50:34 -0700 I've heard you can get the crispness back by washing with vinegar after dying, and then line-drying. On Friday, June 6, 2003, at 07:32 AM, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi. > I asked an expert (lady who has ben reenacting in Gustafs Skål for many > years) > She advised me not to use the shocking pink. She said that a lot of the > members would be making a lot of comments on that colour, and i think > she is > right. > Well, what do i do then, should i overdye it, or should i perhaps boil > it > and hope some of the colour would dissapear, then i could make a round > gown > worn late in the century in stead. > If i dye it and boil it, all the chrispnes would dissapear and the > thoaght > about making an english gown would not go with it, > Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole > thing. > Buy some new fabric for a robe anglaise. > Many greetings > > Bjarne. > > > > > > Leif og Bjarne Drews > www.my-drewscostumes.dk > > http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [11,169]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: Sue Clemenger Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:23:28 -0600 Hey, gang. Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs? I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the originator is still on the list! --sue h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [26,170]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: Sue Clemenger Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:44:09 -0600 Oh, hi! That was quick! I ran across them the other day when cleaning out the back bedroom. Send me your snail mail addy off-list, and I'll try to get them mailed in the next week or two.... --sue, who *really* needs to get back to her emergency costuming for next weekend....<> Lee Thompson-Herbert wrote: > > > Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about > > making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs? > > I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of > > discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the > > originator is still on the list! > > I'm still here. Didn't get the costume finished because of various > health problems, so yeah, I could still use a stack of CDs. > > Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lee thompson-herbert [17,171]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: Lee Thompson-Herbert Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 21:38:13 -0700 (PDT) > Wasn't someone, several months back (like, last winter?) talking about > making a costume using pieces cut from compact discs? > I don't have the posts that talked about it, but I have a whole stack of > discs to send on to whoever it was, if anyone remembers, or if the > originator is still on the list! I'm still here. Didn't get the costume finished because of various health problems, so yeah, I could still use a stack of CDs. Lee M.Thompson-Herbert lee@retro.com KoX 1995, SP4 Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995). Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart" h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [20,172]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 00:59:49 -0400 Lee, I am sorry you have been having health problems. It is good to see you back. Maybe we need to start an h-costume re-hab center. I think we have some nurses on the list! Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [29,173]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 01:11:45 -0400 Sue, Mentioning cleaning... my whole costume book case fell all over my office this afternoon. Books went everywhere and mixed in with all my stacks of books on the floor. What a nightmare. My office looked like an earthquake hit it. Somehow, I ended up with more books than I had room for on my shelves. Now I have more stacks on the floor. Doesn't anyone want to adopt one of my sons to put through college?????? Sue, I think you need a college age kid. He is getting a degree in computers... so he would be a big help. All I need is one more son to move out and I can takeover the big bedroom with all the bookshelves as my office. Otherwise I have to wait until Christmas when he graduates, or until Sept. 2004 when our 4th son goes off to college. Come on Sue, I think you can help a friend in need. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [25,174]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:46:56 +0200 Jummie dat sounds nice. I don't like pink but for such a dress, and with wite lace... It will defenatly break the glace of your teeth just by looking at it :-) . Greetings, Deredere >Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is >easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and >crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed bodice and >the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and part >of the skirt with an open white lace. > >Albert "can't stop designing" Cat > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [46,175]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:40:44 +0200 Hi again. You gave me a good idea here! Thanks for that. I have ben wondering a lot what to do with the fabric, i dont even want a pink shirt, i would never wear it, and Leif neither. This 1860 dress, i will try to make next winter and then i want to sell it on ebay! I could embroider it two Laughs Loud! with grey chenille thread. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- In a message dated 6/6/2003 6:46:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > Well i guess , i have to do something else and forget about the whole > thing. > Have you ever made an 1860s ball gown? You ought to do one. It actually is easier [IMHO] than an 18th century gown. You could make the corset and crinoline. Then a wonderful bright pink gown with a front and back pointed bodice and the décolletage covered in white orange blossoms. Or cover the bodice and part of the skirt with an open white lace. Albert "can't stop designing" Cat h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume genie [13,176]CSuX: new costume interest/ jeans vs. denim slacks Subject: [h-cost] New Costume Interest/ jeans vs. denim slacks From: "Genie" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 12:51:43 -0500 Catching up on old digests. You said> > At my school, we wore uniform until the last two years, when we were > expected to wear reasonably smart, "office-type" clothing. They had > this rule, you could wear "smart denim trousers" but not "jeans". Never > did figure out the difference! > When I was pregnant in 1977 I had a pair of denim slacks that I wore to the office at least once a week. Every so often my boss or someone would question me one this because they were "denim". By -no- stretch of the imagination were they jeans (no rivets, no flat fell seams etc.) But they were blue denim and in some peoples eyes that made them jeans which wre a no-no at that time in the office world. I think I got away with it because no one wants to upset a pregnant lady. Genie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [25,177]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 14:04:58 -0400 On Saturday 07 June 2003 10:40 am, Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: > Hi again. > You gave me a good idea here! Thanks for that. > I have ben wondering a lot what to do with the fabric, i dont even want a > pink shirt, i would never wear it, and Leif neither. > This 1860 dress, i will try to make next winter and then i want to sell it > on ebay! > I could embroider it two Laughs Loud! with grey chenille thread. You could...and it might well be period for the 1860s-- more bizarre color combinations were! -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [55,178]CSuX: uniquely you dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: uniquely you dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 09:31:33 -0700 (PDT) --- Allison Pace wrote: > On Friday, June 6, 2003, Dawn wrote: > > > My own personal preference for dress forms is the > > Uniquely You. It's a poly-foam body with a cotton > > cover you (and a friend, as it zips up the back) > > adjust to match your measurements exactly. I've > had > > Dawn - this sounds great! But my problem with > standard sizing is that > I my waist is two sizes smaller than the bust/hips > and I am > short-waisted, so more often than not, the > "standard" sizes of anything > need major alterations. Do you think the Uniquely > You zip-up cover can > be altered for extreme size differences on the same > body? > > My DTD isn't a good mold of me (a non-sewing friend > helped me and I > think she was too cautious with the topography.) And > And if I could fit > the cover to myself, then put it over the form, I > wouldn't need any > help! Thanks! > > Allison Allison-- I know absolutely, for a fact, that you can alter a Uniquely You to fit an hourglass figure (you lucky girl!). When I was about to buy my Uniquely You, I asked Victoria Ridenour how she dealt with that problem (she was the costumer who recommended that I get a Uniquely You). She said she simply took the cover off a standard size dress form that fit her bust and hips, and duct-taped down the foam until it was approximately her measurements. She then fit the cover to herself, zipped it on, and voila! perfect fit. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [49,179]CSuX: ot - dress form Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT - Dress form From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:01:30 -0700 (PDT) --- Heather Meadows wrote: > Really? I see them in all the shops I've been in. > You can get them on eBay for about $200, sometimes. > > You can get them for around $500 new if you are an > educational organization, also Dress-Rite sells > very similar quality forms for $550, I think. I > know > many individuals that own them for smaller shops. Then you and I probably frequent different shops. As I said before, it's a matter of priorities and how one works. It's a help to have a dress form to do draping on, especially for myself, or if I'm working with lots of hanging yardage. However, I was originally taught to build toiles "on the flat" from the measurements the fitter gave me; I'm also fast enough to do a drape on the live person, and can work from there. It's simply the way I was taught. My own priorities (YMMV) are to spend money on equipment that will get used every day. For the price of a new Wolf or Superior dress form, I can go out and buy a new Uniquely You dress form AND a new Sussman gravity-feed iron with what's left, and still have enough (even after tax and shipping) to buy about $100 worth of notions, fabrics, or other tools I may need. If I already have those things, it's $500 that stays in my pocket. If I have a shop, that $500 goes to help pay overhead costs of a business: electricity, water, rent, taxes, advertising, etc. While a Wolf or Superior dress form might be a nice thing to have, unless I need a $500 business expense to write off, to me it's simply a waste of money when I can do the same tasks with a $130 Uniquely You. Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[14,180]CSuX: shocking pink Subject: Re: [h-cost] shocking pink From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:46:13 EDT In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:08:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cathy@thyrsus.com writes: > You could...and it might well be period for the 1860s-- more bizarre color > combinations were! > Pink and grey....depending on the shade of course....can be quite lovely and not bizarre. We know the pink shade, but is the grey Dove grey? Charcoal grey? Slate grey? Oyster?....?.....?....? h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume allison pace [27,181]CSuX: uniquely you dress form Subject: [h-cost] Re:Uniquely You dress form From: Allison Pace Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:21:23 -0500 On Saturday, June 7, 2003, Dawn wrote: > I know absolutely, for a fact, that you can alter a > Uniquely You to fit an hourglass figure (you lucky > girl!). When I was about to buy my Uniquely You, I > asked Victoria Ridenour how she dealt with that > problem (she was the costumer who recommended that I > get a Uniquely You). She said she simply took the > cover off a standard size dress form that fit her bust > and hips, and duct-taped down the foam until it was > approximately her measurements. She then fit the cover > to herself, zipped it on, and voila! perfect fit. > > Dawn Woo hoo! Now I just have to wait til I get a 40% off coupon from JoAnn's. I had just about given up on having a "me" shape to work on, but this sounds like just what I need. And it's different than any of the others I've tried. Thanks so much for your feedback, Dawn. Allison h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume allison pace [13,182]CSuX: h-costume digest, vol 2, issue 314 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 314 From: Allison Pace Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 15:54:54 -0500 Well, my faulty memory is at it again - I thought I remembered someone posting that Uniquely You forms were available at JoAnn's. But they aren't listed on JoAnn's web site, and my local store says they don't carry them. So I googled and found allbrands.com sells them for $129.99 and FREE shipping! Mine is on it's way. If I can't make this one work, then Dawn, I'm coming to your house for help...;-) Allison h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stacey [21,183]CSuX: ot-dress forms Subject: [h-cost] OT-Dress Forms From: Stacey Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:19:38 -0700 (PDT) I took off the cover on my Uniquely you, and, lo and behold, there were 1" seam allowances! I just had to let out 1/4" on six seamlines and it should work out perfectly. I just saved myself from having to buy a new cover. To the other Uniquely You users out there: how small can you squish the foam? I'm fitting this for my 30" waist, but I have a client who has measurements of 34/24/34. Can I make her a cover and just zip it over the foam for her custom designs? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather rose jones [23,184]CSuX: picking up on an old thread.... Subject: Re: [h-cost] Picking up on an old thread.... From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 11:00:03 -0700 At 1:11 AM -0400 6/7/03, Penny Ladnier wrote: >Sue, > >Mentioning cleaning... my whole costume book case fell all over my office >this afternoon. Books went everywhere and mixed in with all my stacks of >books on the floor. What a nightmare. My office looked like an earthquake >hit it. Somehow, I ended up with more books than I had room for on my >shelves. Now I have more stacks on the floor. Those of us whom actual earthquakes are likely to hit tend to have our bookcases bolted to the wall studs so they don't fall over. But it does describe the effect, nicely. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jennifer sena [21,185]CSuX: preference question Subject: [h-cost] preference question From: "Jennifer Sena" Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 18:33:46 -0700 I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces. Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to the waist, or two long laces tied at the waist? You can email me off list if you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . I just want to know what people like or dislike about one methos or another. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine [22,186]CSuX: fabric shopping in nc? Subject: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC? From: "Katherine" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 18:44:25 -0700 Hi, I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area. Thanks, Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[21,187]CSuX: fabric shopping in nc? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC? From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:41:10 EDT In a message dated 6/7/2003 9:51:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, kcg@sprynet.com writes: > I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was > wondering if > anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area. > Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want upholstery fabric. Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff. Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kim baird [36,188]CSuX: preference question Subject: [h-cost] preference question From: "Kim Baird" Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 23:06:16 -0500 I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Sena I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces. Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to the waist, or two long laces tied at the waist? You can email me off list if you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . I just want to know what people like or dislike about one methos or another. Jennifer Sena Distant Designs http://home.teleport.com/~cedric/distdesi I wont hurt you, I just want to dress you up!! Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [33,189]CSuX: preference question Subject: RE: [h-cost] preference question From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 01:50:40 -0700 I usually go with three sets of laces, tho I don't think it's period. One lace goes in the middle four holes, right at the waist. One lace does everything above the waist, and one lace does everything below the waist. >I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way. >I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces. > >Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to >the >waist, or two long laces tied at the waist? You can email me off list >if >you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . I just want to know what >people >like or dislike about one methos or another. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michaela [42,190]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: michaela Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 01:02:46 +1200 Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time) Anyway: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace. So far I have: hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls, still need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the hennin. into A&S comps:) then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And lacing rings;) So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:) Yes, I have a penchant for orange;) OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo group and hopefully off to bed:) micahela http://glittersweet.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [78,191]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: RE: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 06:18:25 -0700 Very nice work! I love your fashion plates! It is going to be "saaaaaweeeet"! I really like the dark trim on the opening. Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of michaela ~Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 6:03 AM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) ~ ~Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working ~furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the ~go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy ~B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious ~anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time) ~ ~Anyway: ~http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm ~ ~No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my ~accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace. ~ ~So far I have: ~hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls, still ~need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also ~need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on ~nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the ~hennin. ~ ~Necklace: two more rows of seed bead loops, again if I don't have time ~it's enough as it is. ~ ~Shift: done! needs re-ironing and one gather has popped, but otherwise;) ~ ~Kirtle: fitted and edges neatened, but it needs hemming and lacing done. ~Then I will turn all seams in to hand finish for if I wish to enter it ~into A&S comps:) ~ ~gown: wool sewn and only one seam left to neaten, how I love herringbone ~stitch! I'm getting the velvet trim around the neck, need to finish that ~then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for ~the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And ~lacing rings;) ~ ~hose: still need to cut them out... ~ ~Shoes: got them cut out! Need to stitch together, so I need leather ~needles. ~ ~So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:) ~ ~Yes, I have a penchant for orange;) ~ ~OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo group ~and hopefully off to bed:) ~ ~micahela ~http://glittersweet.com ~ ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kathryn wolters [55,192]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 08:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Very nice work michella---looking forward to the article on the construction---(I made a burgundian ages ago---and it's time to make another--time and gravity having taken their toll:( thanks so much for sharing! Cheers and Best ! Albra michaela wrote: Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time) Anyway: http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace. So far I have: hennin, base and covered in velvet and red glass beads and pearls, still need to finish the design but if it doesn't happen this will do. I also need to make the head band with loop to go under it, but it wedges on nicely with no support arleady, just my plaits. And i need to line the hennin. into A&S comps:) then sew silver cording on either side of the trim.. then do that for the cuffs! And a deep velvet border at the bottom of the gown. And lacing rings;) So.. not quite finished;) But getting there:) Yes, I have a penchant for orange;) OK, going to send this to the sca-garb list that's *not* the yahoo group and hopefully off to bed:) micahela http://glittersweet.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [21,193]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: Sue Clemenger Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 12:05:38 -0600 Michaela, this looks like so much fun! I look forward to seeing the completed outfit, too! I know someone who would just *adore* your color choice, too! I do hope, when you get the whole process posted on line, that you talk *lots* about the details (like that amazing necklace).... --sue, admittedly completely addicted to dress diaries ;-) michaela wrote: > > Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working > furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the > go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy > B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious > anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time) > > Anyway: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume margaret baird [25,194]CSuX: deaccessioning a sewing room Subject: [h-cost] deaccessioning a sewing room From: "Margaret Baird " Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:41:06 -0400 Hello, All of you seem to know one another pretty well, so I’m feeling a bit shy about writing, but a couple of you are on the FOCD list so here it goes. My mother died 2 ½ years ago and I’m finally down to the nitty gritty of clearing out her sewing room drawers. She was a good little New Englander and a Virgo as well so she had more than just a slight tendency to be a pack rat. Among her things, are these great rolls of brown silk grosgrain ribbon which I will never have a use for. My best guess is that she bought these rolls new when she worked for Woodward and Lothrop’s in the 1940’s. I thought I would offer them up to the members of this list the same way I’ve done other things on FOCD. So if anyone would like a share of these sewing treasures the “deal” is that I mail a box to you and you send me the postage plus whatever you feel it is worth to you. I send the money on to my dad who is building a memorial fund in her name at the Lowell Quilt Museum. Hope no one feels that I’m out of line making this offer to the list, but since the only thing I get out of it personally is the chance to have my sewing space back I’m hoping that no one will mind. If you are interested I can be reached at beads@traknet.com . Thanks, Margaret Baird h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume margaret baird [10,195]CSuX: deaccessioning addendum Subject: [h-cost] deaccessioning addendum From: "Margaret Baird " Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:50:40 -0400 There are two apparently full (10 yd each) rolls of ¾” , 7 rolls in various degrees of fullness of 1 1/8” and 6 rolls again of varying degrees of fullness of 1 ¼” ribbons. As I leave it up to you to decide what it is worth I wasn’t going to measure it all out but will if the total length is important to you. Thanks again Margaret Baird h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [26,196]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 16:03:56 -0700 (PDT) > Hi all:) OK, I've finally got some photos of the garb I'm working > furiously on.. or as furiously as one can with a dozen projects on the > go;) Time management, that's the ticket;) And hopefully some nice ouchy > B12 shots soon so I have more time to actually manage;) (Pernicious > anaemia is not fun, I'm so tired all the time) > > Anyway: > http://costumes.glittersweet.com/burgundian.htm > > No where near finished, but getting there:) I'm particularly proud of my > accessories for this, and I *love* my necklace. I also think your necklace is fabulous!! Did you go to fashion design school? Your renderings are just like a woman I used to sew with who had gone to fashion design school. In any case, nice work so far! Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [11,197]CSuX: deaccessioning a sewing room Subject: RE: [h-cost] deaccessioning a sewing room From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:00:17 -0700 Hi Margaret! I think this is a great idea...and I'll take you up on it. I will send you my address offlist. Thanks for the opportunity! Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume susan [32,198]CSuX: fabric sale in the dayton ohio area Subject: [h-cost] Fabric sale in the Dayton Ohio area From: "Susan" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:02:07 -0700 Hi all, My dad runs a thrift/donation/whatever store for the Troy Ohio Habitat for Humanity group. They had a lot of drapery fabric donated to them and they are selling it for $2 a yard. I haven't seen this, so I don't know the ratio of prints to brocades, but my mom said some of it is really nice. Since I'm too far away to take advantage of this, I thought I'd pass it on. I hope that's ok. Could someone pass this on to the Dayton area SCA please? Thanks, Susan Courney > It's called the Restore and it is open Friday and Saturday 9AM -3PM. >Directions: Coming north on I75 they should get off at the first Troy Exit, Exit 73. >Turn right coming off the ramp. Follow road towards town, go through two > traffic lights, then go left on Lincoln. After crossing a railroad track > go left on Simpson, then right on Garfield and they will see the sign. > The address is 518 South Garfield. IT's sort of an out of the way spot > but easy to get to if you know where to go. (and if you see a man named Ralph running around, tell him his daughter says hi ;-) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [10,199]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 18:04:59 -0700 Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are. It is hot here in Phoenix - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for the morning hours. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [21,200]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: Sue Clemenger Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 19:33:10 -0600 Doesn't that count as "spring weather" in your neck of the woods? We're having the usual mix of one nice, sunny hot day followed by a thunderstormy day. Dunno what everyone else is up to (and yeah, it sure *is* quiet!), but I'm engaged in the usual pre-event scramble to make clothes (in this case, 2 simple early-16th c. Italian dresses, and a couple of camicias for a camping event I'm headed to later this week). --sue Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are. It is hot > here in Phoenix - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for > the morning hours. > > Sg > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume margaret baird [7,201]CSuX: ribbons Subject: [h-cost] ribbons From: "Margaret Baird " Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 21:57:46 -0400 Sorry, all of the ribbon is spoken for. Thanks for all of your interest. Margaret h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[25,202]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 22:19:10 EDT In a message dated 6/8/03 9:33:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mooncat@in-tch.com writes: > Doesn't that count as "spring weather" in your neck of the woods? > We're having the usual mix of one nice, sunny hot day followed by a > thunderstormy day. > Dunno what everyone else is up to (and yeah, it sure *is* quiet!), but > I'm engaged in the usual pre-event scramble to make clothes (in this > case, 2 simple early-16th c. Italian dresses, and a couple of camicias > for a camping event I'm headed to later this week). Blah! Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) in cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three weeks or so. Granted it was sunny on Friday, but it was the first time I'd seen the sun in at least 12 days! Ah well. I finally have my diploma. Costume relevance: I showed off my Margo-pattern Elizabethan ("The Green Brocade") last Wednesday, and it was very well received! I'll be getting dressed in it tomorrow, and I'll have pictures taken so that I can post them somewhere. Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather rose jones [23,203]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 19:45:58 -0700 At 6:04 PM -0700 6/8/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote: >Hope it is a glorious spring or summer day where you all are. It is hot >here in Phoenix - already ~104 .I don't mind, but I only go outside for >the morning hours. > Here around the SF bay, we're having one of those "cool grey" weekends. Last night the fog-ceiling was at just the right level that the sky glowed with the reflection of the urban lights. Eerie and vaguely disturbing. I looked out the window right around 11 pm before going to bed and had a moment's irrational panic that the city must be burning to glow like that. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [15,204]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 22:13:46 -0500 Greetings, As of 12:30 pm, Saturday June 7th I am the proud aunt of Bowen Ian Nunn (9lbs 9oz - 53cm/21in) and need to make some cool but practical baby clothes (medieval/celtic theme things are good). Since I've never had much to do with babies before - anyone have suggestions? I've got a lot to live up to, I've been told I'm officially the kids' "cool aunt" ... Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume margo anderson [14,205]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:59:54 -0700 At 10:19 PM 06/08/2003 EDT, IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) Congratulations! Margo "One Tough Costumer" www.margospatterns.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [28,206]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:33:45 -0400 Congratulations! (And a sympathetic "Ouch!" to the mother, that's a BIG baby!) Cynthia Virtue made some adorable tunics and hoods for her twins. You might want to check her page for pictures. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings, > > As of 12:30 pm, Saturday June 7th I am the proud aunt of Bowen Ian Nunn > (9lbs 9oz - 53cm/21in) and need to make some cool but practical baby > clothes (medieval/celtic theme things are good). Since I've never had much > to do with babies before - anyone have suggestions? I've got a lot to live > up to, I've been told I'm officially the kids' "cool aunt" ... > > Cheers, > Danielle > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dianne & greg stucki [16,207]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: "Dianne & Greg Stucki" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 06:35:08 -0400 > Blah! Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) in > cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three > weeks or so. CONGRATULATIONS!! My oldest son graduated last Friday. I feel very old... Dianne h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume =?iso-8859-1?q?n=20kipar?= [17,208]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:44:27 +0100 (BST) Nah, I just was on no email/not on list for a while, got a tad bored with the list. ;-) Anything interesting happened in the meantime? Anything that is waiting to get stirred up? *LOL* Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [20,209]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: Sue Clemenger Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 05:57:15 -0600 Congratulations! It rained/stormed when I graduated high school, too. And it was an outdoor ceremony. I remember the mud up the back of my gown (from my shoes flipping bits up there as I walked), and how they'd covered the speakers for the sound system with these huge garbage bags, which came off in the winds, and floated lazily about in the air like weird balloons. Gawd, but that was a long time ago. Now I'm feeling old, too.....*sigh* --sue IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > > Blah! Nice weather my foot- I graduated from high school today (*preen!*) in > cloudy, nasty weather, and it's been raining on and off for the past three > weeks or so. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[30,210]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 11:43:06 EDT In a message dated 6/9/03 7:57:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mooncat@in-tch.com (and a group of others) writes: > Congratulations! Thank you! No more school for me! At least, not until I head off to college in August. They have a chapter of the SCA there, and there's someone in charge of sewing/needlework. I'll fit right in! > It rained/stormed when I graduated high school, too. And it was an > outdoor ceremony. I remember the mud up the back of my gown (from my > shoes flipping bits up there as I walked), and how they'd covered the > speakers for the sound system with these huge garbage bags, which came > off in the winds, and floated lazily about in the air like weird > balloons. > Gawd, but that was a long time ago. Now I'm feeling old, too.....*sigh* We graduated in fifty identical white spaghetti-strap floor-length gowns, and fifty pairs of very different white sandals. The tarp they laid down beneath the tent wasn't enough to keep the mud from us, so the fronts of my shoes are mud-covered (white fabric...any hints?!), and the back of my dress is spattered (dry cleaner's..soon). Fortunately, chilly and cloudy as it was, there was no rain- so at least we weren't soaked graduates! Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cynthia j ley [29,211]CSuX: must be nice weather out...very quiet! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Must be nice weather out...very quiet! From: Cynthia J Ley Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:57:57 -0700 Tried Oxyclean? And congratulations! :-) Arlys > We graduated in fifty identical white spaghetti-strap floor-length > gowns, and > fifty pairs of very different white sandals. The tarp they laid > down beneath > the tent wasn't enough to keep the mud from us, so the fronts of my > shoes are > mud-covered (white fabric...any hints?!), and the back of my dress > is > spattered (dry cleaner's..soon). Fortunately, chilly and cloudy as > it was, there was > no rain- so at least we weren't soaked graduates! > > Christine > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume linda j. thompson [21,212]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: "Linda J. Thompson" Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 13:51:40 -0500 Silk should never be bleached. It yellows badly, and from my experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe it greatly shortens the life of the fabric. The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a white sueded charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it did not come out in the regular wash (washed but not dried in). I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about a gallon of very hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours and it came out completely. Then I made the mistake of setting the wet shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the telephone rang, forgot about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked wonders. -- Linda Thompson Attitude Is Everything http://corsetsandcostumes.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [18,213]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 14:51:37 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 9 Jun 2003, Linda J. Thompson wrote: > Silk should never be bleached. It yellows badly, and from my > experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe > it greatly shortens the life of the fabric. That's putting it mildly. Silk, like wool, dissolves in bleach. It's one of the tests I use to find out a fabric's fiber content (thanks to whomever it was who first posted the idea to this list!). --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katie lewis [24,214]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: "Katie Lewis" Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:39:58 -0400 Congratulations! Check out: http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm if the link dosen't work go to Drea's site www.costume.dm.net and click on Breughel's Babies. This won't be much help for dressing a newborn, but is very useful for when the kid is a few months old. I'm using this article as a jumping off point for the research on the clothes I'm making for my son Thomas(5 weeks yesterday!) to wear this fall when he starts going to events. I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of the paintings. -Katie Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[16,215]CSuX: i m now an aunt! Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 15:53:58 -0400 >http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm Oy! The link that will not die. I wrote this several years ago & can't get it to go away. I am hoping that once I cancel this email account that they'll shut off my space. I recently did a small article for an SCA magazine - the copy of that article is at http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/breughelbabies2.htm Unfortunately, it appears I didn't put in any of the links to the drawings, etc. I have a few PDFs with drawings and snippets that I could send to anyone who is interested. >I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of the paintings. I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions either (I could argue with myself all day), but I have done more research/speculation/experimentation & have come up with better rationalizations. I need to take a weekend and get everything down on paper/website & in control. :) For anyone who is interested, I will be teaching a half day session at Pennsic on Breugel clothes for men, women and children. Constance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [13,216]CSuX: portrait of a moravian woman-new to me Subject: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 13:00:58 -0700 http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11 &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it. Saragrace h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [41,217]CSuX: preference question Subject: RE: [h-cost] preference question From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 17:52:44 -0400 I do something similar with my Elizabethan corset. I find it more comfortable, because it keeps it tight exactly where it needs to be and I can slack it off where I want it not quite as tight. It also allows me to keep the space in the back even. ----- Original Message ----- > I usually go with three sets of laces, tho I don't think it's period. One > lace goes in the middle four holes, right at the waist. One lace does > everything above the waist, and one lace does everything below the waist. > > >I've never really noticed the difference, and I've done it both way. > > > >I just finished my victorian corset, but was wondering about the laces. > > > >Please let me know your preference between one long lace tightened to > >the > >waist, or two long laces tied at the waist? You can email me off list > >if > >you want at distantdesigns@hotmail.com . I just want to know what > >people > >like or dislike about one methos or another. > > > CarolynKayta Barrows > dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian > www.FunStuft.com > > //// \\\ > ////-@@\\\ > (((( 7 ))) > ((( <> )))) > ) (((((( > /----\ /---\)) > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jean waddie [31,218]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: Jean Waddie Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:01:35 +0100 This came up perfect timing for me. I need to make hair accessories in silk, and I have a big enough bit of scrap which is much too bright yellow, but would be fine in a lighter shade. I went to the bathroom bleach, and discovered it was peroxide instead of chlorine - "safe when spilt on clothing", damn! But is that what you mean by oxy cleaners - are they peroxide bleach? Jean Linda J. Thompson wrote >Silk should never be bleached. It yellows badly, and from my >experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe >it greatly shortens the life of the fabric. >The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a >white sueded charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it >did not come out in the regular wash (washed but not dried in). >I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about >a gallon of very hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours >and it came out completely. Then I made the mistake of setting the wet >shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the telephone rang, forgot >about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box >transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked >wonders. -- Jean Waddie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jean waddie [31,219]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: Jean Waddie Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:01:35 +0100 This came up perfect timing for me. I need to make hair accessories in silk, and I have a big enough bit of scrap which is much too bright yellow, but would be fine in a lighter shade. I went to the bathroom bleach, and discovered it was peroxide instead of chlorine - "safe when spilt on clothing", damn! But is that what you mean by oxy cleaners - are they peroxide bleach? Jean Linda J. Thompson wrote >Silk should never be bleached. It yellows badly, and from my >experience it can not easily be gotten out once it happens. I believe >it greatly shortens the life of the fabric. >The Oxy cleaners work wonders to whiten silk.. I spilled hot tea onto a >white sueded charmeuse just this past week, and was in a panic when it >did not come out in the regular wash (washed but not dried in). >I took a wash basin, put in a scoop of the oxy clean stuff, added about >a gallon of very hot water, and soaked the shirt for a couple of hours >and it came out completely. Then I made the mistake of setting the wet >shirt ontop of a box of drier sheets when the telephone rang, forgot >about it for several hours.... And the print dye from the box >transferrred to the shirt.... had to re-soak it a gain, but it worked >wonders. -- Jean Waddie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michaela [24,220]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: michaela Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:07:20 +1200 > That's putting it mildly. Silk, like wool, dissolves in bleach. It's one > of the tests I use to find out a fabric's fiber content (thanks to > whomever it was who first posted the idea to this list!). Yep, discovered that when I wanted to remove fuschia dye for a piece of silk chiffon. The shop assistant said *not* to iron it but to try bleaching it... I have no idea why she thought bleach was safe but ironing not.... I was wanting to iron it asit tends to crinkle so much that a 90cm wide piece winds up about 30cm. Still it's been useful like that so I haven't actually ironed it at all;) Yes, It degrades beautifully in bleach does it not? michaela http://glittersweet.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume glenda robinson [17,221]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: "Glenda Robinson" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:10:32 +1000 I once accidentally put my husband's linen collar with silk tassels in laundry soaker and the silk yellowed. As it wasn't too bad, he still used the collar many times (and I washed it in the eucalyptus wool mix I use for silk many times too). Over a year later he accidentally leant too close to his claret and dipped one of the tassels in the wine. I washed out the wine with wool mix, and lo and behold, not only did the wine come out (after a long soak!), but the silk was white again! We then, of course, dipped the other tassel in wine too! I don't know what the active ingredient was in the wine that whitened the silk, but it would be interesting to find out. Glenda. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [25,222]CSuX: portrait of a moravian woman-new to me Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 20:25:48 -0400 On Monday 09 June 2003 04:00 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11 > &item=24%2E80%2E529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 > > This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it. I'm confused. Neither link identifies itself as being of a Moravian Woman. One is titled "The Epiphany" (Picture to match) and one is titled "Madonna and Child" (Picture to match) I do not see a portrait, let alone one of a Moravian female. :-) -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michaela [83,223]CSuX: orange burgundian:) Subject: Re: [h-cost] Orange Burgundian:) From: michaela Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:26:54 +1200 To reduce the amount of multiple posting on the same subject I'm going to reply to all ...replies;) so far. > Very nice work! I love your fashion plates! It is going to be > "saaaaaweeeet"! I really like the dark trim on the opening. > > Sg Thanks:) It's going to be black cotton velvet borded with silver cord. I'm feeling less worried about it now that I have some on the dress. But it is all hand sewing and my fingers are triggering again:( Sigh. > Very nice work michella---looking forward to the article on the construction---(I made a burgundian ages ago---and it's time to make another--time and gravity having taken their toll:( > thanks so much for sharing! > Cheers and Best ! > Albra Thanks:) Yeah, I've found some exciting things in just making this gown, and will have to start typing them out or I may forget;) Oh and just as a side note, it's Michaela, not michella;) Not sure if it was a typo, but I've had others call me that too so I just wanted to clafify:) > Michaela, this looks like so much fun! I look forward to seeing the > completed outfit, too! lol! Me too;) I'm not so panicked anymore.. maybe because the gloss of the occasion I'll be wearing it to has rubbed off and I'm not looking forward to it so much. Still I'm excited to be getting to the finiching touches of the gown:) > I know someone who would just *adore* your color choice, too! hehe, there are a few orange lovers on this list;) > I do hope, when you get the whole process posted on line, that you talk > *lots* about the details (like that amazing necklace).... Thanks:) I just bought some more wire, which is a different gauge but. Still it might be a nice halfway between the thicker wire and thread in that it will be softer and fit to the curves of the neck more:) > --sue, admittedly completely addicted to dress diaries ;-) hehehe, I was going to start, but I haven't had that for other pages so it may look a bit out of place;) > I also think your necklace is fabulous!! Thanks:) I had seen a bracelt at a 2nd hand store and thought it might do nicely for some jewellery if I pulled it apart, but left it as I wasn't that sure. Then I went back, it was still there and I realised it was perfect for what I needed:) And thus we have the silver sections of the necklace. > Did you go to fashion design school? Your renderings are just like a > woman I used to sew with who had gone to fashion design school. hehe, no, I just have drawn since I was a child:) And now with the costume interest I've gotten terrible! I now spend as much time drawing in seam placesments as I do on any other part! I really need to refind some inspiration and stop sketching like I'm doing costume renderings;) I also had someone a few years ago gfo on about how she was in a fashion/costume class and that you had to do that if you wanted to be any good... so I looked at her, and mentioned a few of the Doyennes of costuming (Arnold, Bradfield, even Kohler as an example of what to take with a grain of sand...) and she had never heard of them! I thought that said everything;) I doubt they are even being taught much about pattern drafting or cutting.... michaela http://glittersweet.com Not saying no one should go to school to learn a specialist subject. I needed to for performing, but others haven't. It's all to do with the student and the teachers and how they learn/teach. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [17,224]CSuX: portrait of a moravian woman-new to me Subject: [h-cost] FW: Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 18:16:54 -0700 How weird! It works for me. Are you getting the whole url? I have tried pasting it as a hyperlink this time. Hopefully it won't break it up. If all else fails go to www.metmuseum.org search function and put in Pieter Pietersz as the artist, or Moravian as a key word. http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11 &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [23,225]CSuX: portrait of a moravian woman-new to me Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW: Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:05:52 -0400 On Monday 09 June 2003 09:16 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > How weird! It works for me. Are you getting the whole url? I have > tried pasting it as a hyperlink this time. Hopefully it won't break it > up. If all else fails go to www.metmuseum.org > search function and put in Pieter Pietersz > as the artist, or Moravian as a key word. > > http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11 > &item=24.80.529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 Thanks. I found it via the search. Very nice. -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [25,226]CSuX: preference question Subject: Re: [h-cost] preference question From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:18:04 -0700 >I do something similar with my Elizabethan corset. I find it more >comfortable, because it keeps it tight exactly where it needs to be and I >can slack it off where I want it not quite as tight. It also allows me to >keep the space in the back even. Yes - that's why I do it. Otherwise I can't keep it the right size at the waist. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [28,227]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 Hi all, I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather puzzling. The one attributed to 'H': http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg seems to show black fabric, but a different portrait at http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg seems to be a bright red. Can anyone enlighten me, please? best wishes Stevie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [20,228]CSuX: ot crushed silk/viscose velvet Subject: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:26:50 +0100 Hi all, Crushed silk/viscose velvet is presumably such a recent phenomenon that it's OT for H-cost, but Denholme Velvet, which apparently supplied velvet for the LOTR movies, have some on line for an unbelievably cheap £5.95 a meter. http://secure.marchioness.co.uk/ Marchioness is a division of Denholme. best wishes Stevie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [10,229]CSuX: ot crushed silk/viscose velvet Subject: RE: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 08:42:58 -0700 Hmmm, I wonder if they sell it 'across the pond' yet? Do they sell it without crushing or patterns? Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[66,230]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 10:31:04 -0500 Hi Stevie, While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to shed some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct. Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet Sir Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with much the same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either red or black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the rest of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and white portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis for the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted the picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic Costume' she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which seem to be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as documentation because they were all period variations on the same style and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct one. Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is no way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be considered as equally valid as they both express the period aesthetic. If you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose your color scheme to suit yourself. Karen On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble" writes: > Hi all, > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur > lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > puzzling. > > The one attributed to 'H': > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > > seems to show black fabric, > > but a different portrait at > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > seems to be a bright red. > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? > > best wishes > Stevie > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [37,231]CSuX: update again Subject: [h-cost] update again From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:46:45 +0200 Hello! I am not pleased with my speed of the dress. Oh it takes such a long time, i hoped to get it finished next week, but now i am not sure. Anyway, i could not find any trim like the dress from Kyoto has, so i baught some ivory silk organza, cut out strips, baught a 2 mm. seam folder, and now i have trimmed both sides of the skirt embroideries with it. Looks ok. Then i have almost spend the whole day, making that compere opening front of the dress with the ribbon embroideries. Tomorrow, my last off the job day this week, ill make the underskirt. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/toille.htm I want to get this dress ready soon, sigh!!!!! Well some of the time today went with booking tickets for a holliday in Portugal. We will travel to Lisabon for 5 days, and Porto for 5 days in the last week of august! If i find a new wonderfull exhibition at Museu do Traje in Lisboa, like the fantastic regency exhibition last time i was there, i shall let you know! Sorry i have not had the time to catch up with the emails! Keep up the good work all!! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [92,232]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:40:29 +0100 Karen wrote: > > While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to shed > some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct. > Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet Sir > Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with much the > same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either red or > black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the rest > of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and white > portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis for > the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted the > picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and > never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic Costume' > she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which seem to > be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the > design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as > documentation because they were all period variations on the same style > and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct one. > Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is no > way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be > considered as equally valid as they both express the period aesthetic. If > you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose your > color scheme to suit yourself. > Thank you, that is most helpful! Though choosing colours is not one of my favourite activities, I possess a daughter who loves all things red, and since she has just finished this year's lot of horrendous exams, we are slowly re-emerging into the real world again. In our case, a shared love of the 16th century real world, of course... thanks again, Stevie > On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble" > writes: > > Hi all, > > > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur > > lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > > puzzling. > > > > The one attributed to 'H': > > > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > > > > > seems to show black fabric, > > > > but a different portrait at > > > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > > > seems to be a bright red. > > > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > > > > > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [42,233]CSuX: ot crushed silk/viscose velvet Subject: Re: [h-cost] OT crushed silk/viscose velvet From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:33:34 +0100 Sg wrote, re my note below > Hmmm, I wonder if they sell it 'across the pond' yet? Do they sell it > without crushing or patterns? > Well, I am simply going by their website, which notes that they do ship abroad, though shipping would presumably be much more expensive. Denholme does a huge range of velvets, but as far as I know at the moment the only ones going cheap are the ones I directed people to in my note. You can always enquire, but I would not rely on the stocks lasting very long, or getting prices like these on other products. The crushed velvet is the range sold in Liberty's which cost around £25 a meter, say $40 a yard. Hence my alerting the list... best wishes Stevie ---------------------- Crushed silk/viscose velvet is presumably such a recent phenomenon that it's OT for H-cost, but Denholme Velvet, which apparently supplied velvet for the LOTR movies, have some on line for an unbelievably cheap £5.95 a meter. http://secure.marchioness.co.uk/ Marchioness is a division of Denholme. > Sg > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[37,234]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 13:58:59 -0400 --------- Original Message --------- >>http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm >Oy! The link that will not die. I wrote this >several years ago & can't get it to go away. Sorry about that. The link was a newer one on Drea's site, so I thought the article was more current than that. >I recently did a small article for an SCA >magazine - the copy of that article is at >http://home.uchicago.edu/~atterlep/costuming/breughel>babies2.htm Thanks for the new link! > >I have a few PDFs with drawings and snippets that I >could send to anyone who is interested. > Yes please! if you could, please send it to roblewis@asu.edu (my sweetie's account, he has a faster 'puter than me), >I don't agree with all of the author's conclusions >either (I could argue with myself all day), but I >have done more research/speculation/experimentation >& have come up with better rationalizations. > The newer article actually answered a lot of the questions I had about your reconstructions. -Katie --- Sheila:I'm not listening to this. Willow:Prince of Night, I summon you. Come fill me with your black, naughty evil. Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [21,235]CSuX: seeking color version of talbot portrait Subject: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:34:53 -0500 Greetings to all, I'm looking for a color version of this portrait http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg Somehow I think I've seen one, perhaps in my own library, as I have this vague notion that the stomacher is gold under the pearls. Does anyone have a source, either online or in print? I checked the online catalog of the Fitzwilliam Museum, where the painting lives, but they don't have the image online. If no one has another idea, I'll contact them to ask, but I thought I'd check with the list first. Thanks! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume emma elizabeth lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu>[17,236]CSuX: silk - do not bleach Subject: Re: [h-cost] Silk - Do Not Bleach From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 17:14:04 -0500 (CDT) > I washed out the wine with wool mix, and lo and behold, not only did the > wine come out (after a long soak!), but the silk was white again! We then, > of course, dipped the other tassel in wine too! Wonderful! I wonder if the tannin in the wine (acidic) reversed whatever reaction the bleach (basic) caused? It might be worth experimenting with vinegar to return silk to white. (I still wouldn't bleach silk to begin with, other than experimentally, though. You may be able to change the color back, but you can't rebuild what has been broken down.) Emma h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [19,237]CSuX: seeking color version of talbot portrait Subject: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait From: "Melanie Schuessler" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:12:58 +1000 ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings to all, > > I'm looking for a color version of this portrait > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg > > Somehow I think I've seen one, perhaps in my own library, as I have this > vague notion that the stomacher is gold under the pearls. > I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century', but I wouldn't swear to it. Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [38,238]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:16:06 +1000 ----- Original Message ----- > Hi all, > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined > pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > puzzling. > > The one attributed to 'H': > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > > seems to show black fabric, > > but a different portrait at > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > seems to be a bright red. > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? > Maybe it was one cloak but the black/red started to wear away so he had it replaced with red/black. Or maybe the fashion for colours changed (the black cloak portrait does look like a later style to me and red was popular earlier in ERs reign), so perhaps he really liked it and changed the fabric so he could still wear it and be trendy. Claire h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [40,239]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:18:08 -0400 On Tuesday 10 June 2003 11:10 am, Stevie Gamble wrote: > Hi all, > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined > pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > puzzling. > > The one attributed to 'H': > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > > seems to show black fabric, > > but a different portrait at > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > seems to be a bright red. > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? Without seeing the original of either painting, it's hard to say. My best guess would be that the cape is actually a dark red, and the color values are off in different directions in the two portraits. (It does seem unlikely that Raleigh had, and was depicted in, two cloaks of different colors studded with pearls in the same pattern.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[13,240]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 20:48:03 -0400 I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though about Elizabethan men's garb. Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. However, he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy pants but with very tall boots. Can anyone point me to a picture that fits that? Thanks Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[22,241]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:13:19 EDT In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, catpurson@juno.com writes: > However, > he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy > pants but with very tall boots. Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I would think they were worn together. I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this combo though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a military-esque outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate later than Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan. Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The English Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [48,242]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: RE: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:50:11 -0700 Yes I do believe I have seen that...just trying to remember where. It is of a man in a very tall hat (almost pilgrim like) sitting under a tree. I think he has Venetians on but they are poofy. I will try to hunt it down. Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com ~Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:13 PM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb ~ ~In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, ~catpurson@juno.com writes: ~ ~ ~> However, ~> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy ~> pants but with very tall boots. ~ ~Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I would ~think they were worn together. ~ ~I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this combo ~though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a military-esque ~outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate later than ~Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan. ~ ~Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The English ~Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length. ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [20,243]CSuX: seeking color version of talbot portrait Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:53:53 -0500 > From: "Melanie Schuessler" >> >>I'm looking for a color version of this portrait >>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg Claire Clarke wrote: > > I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century', > but I wouldn't swear to it. It is, but it's in black and white. Thanks, though. Melanie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [17,244]CSuX: tunic tales-another dress diary Subject: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 18:56:46 -0700 All these dress diaries have inspired me to do one. I have really enjoyed reading all of yours. I have posted one on an 8th century tunic I am making for a friend. Now that I have written the diary, it sounds boring..maybe I a have just read it too many times. http://www.saragrace.net/5A_tunic_tales.html P.S. I have taken the rest of my site down for maintenance...so don't look for anything other than the links on the one page. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [22,245]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:05:32 -0500 catpurson@juno.com wrote: > I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though > about Elizabethan men's garb. Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan > and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. However, > he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy > pants but with very tall boots. Can anyone point me to a picture that > fits that? Thanks Well, it's the later version of poofy, but there's the Unknown Man by Isaac Oliver--he's fig. 140 in Visual History of Costume: the Sixteenth Century. He's sitting at the base of a tree and wearing trunk hose with matching canions and tight black boots that come up over his knees. I can't find it online, sorry, but if you can find a book about Elizabethan miniatures, it will be in there. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [51,246]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: Sue Clemenger Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:10:21 -0600 I think I know that one. Isn't it by Isaac Oliver? --sue Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > Yes I do believe I have seen that...just trying to remember where. It > is of a man in a very tall hat (almost pilgrim like) sitting under a > tree. I think he has Venetians on but they are poofy. I will try to > hunt it down. > > Sg > > ~-----Original Message----- > ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > ~Behalf Of AlbertCat@aol.com > ~Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 6:13 PM > ~To: h-costume@indra.com > ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb > ~ > ~In a message dated 6/10/2003 9:02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ~catpurson@juno.com writes: > ~ > ~ > ~> However, > ~> he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy > ~> pants but with very tall boots. > ~ > ~Well, tall boots are in and trunk hose [poofy pants] are also in so I > would > ~think they were worn together. > ~ > ~I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this > combo > ~though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a > military-esque > ~outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate > later than > ~Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not Elizabethan. > ~ > ~Anyway.... A book you might look for in your local library is "The > English > ~Icon"...lots and lots of portraits...several full length. > ~h-costume mailing list > ~h-costume@mail.indra.com > ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [41,247]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: Sue Clemenger Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:08:02 -0600 I'm not much for enlightening on this one, but I can always add to the confusion! I've always loved that cape (pearls rock!), but have never seen that second portrait. I'd being going "huh?", too. There are difference in the styles of clothing (other than the cape) that Raleigh's wearing...perhaps a time difference?, and the color in the portrait has been "updated" to be more stylish? Perhaps one painting is a sort of duplicate of the other?, in the way that some portraits were copied/recopied. The red could be an error or an artist's interpretation. --sue Stevie Gamble wrote: > > Hi all, > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined > pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > puzzling. > > The one attributed to 'H': > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > seems to show black fabric, > > but a different portrait at > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > seems to be a bright red. > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? > > best wishes > Stevie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [80,248]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:16:18 -0700 And I have seen possibly as many as ten different versions of Elizabeth I in that big white dress in the Ditchley Portrait. >While I have no definitive answer for you, I think I may be able to shed >some light on this issue. The answer is that they are both correct. >Although they appear to be the same cloak, it could be that Sweet Sir >Walter liked the design so much that he had two cloaks made with much the >same pattern. Or it could be that he had one cloak that was either red or >black but told the painter to change the color scheme to suite the rest >of the outfit in the picture. Or it could be that the black and white >portrait is the true picture and another artist used it as the basis for >the red portrait but changed the color scheme to suit what he wanted the >picture to look like. Or the cloak could be completely imaginary and >never really existed at all. In Janet Arnold's book 'Historic Costume' >she has reproductions of 3 portraits of Jane Seymour all of which seem to >be the same dress, but which have very noticable differences in the >design. Her conclusion was that they were all correct and usable as >documentation because they were all period variations on the same style >and there was no way to prove which one was the absolutely correct one. >Since both versions of Raleigh's cloak were done in period, there is no >way to prove which one is the correct one, so they must both be >considered as equally valid as they both express the period aesthetic. If >you want to reproduce a version of the cloak, go for it- and choose your >color scheme to suit yourself. > >Karen > > > > > >On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 16:10:46 +0100 "Stevie Gamble" > writes: > > Hi all, > > > > I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur > > lined pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather > > puzzling. > > > > The one attributed to 'H': > > > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg > > > > > > seems to show black fabric, > > > > but a different portrait at > > > > http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg > > > > seems to be a bright red. > > > > Can anyone enlighten me, please? > > > > best wishes > > Stevie > > > > > > > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume carolyn kayta barrows [29,249]CSuX: seeking color version of talbot portrait Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:18:49 -0700 >>>I'm looking for a color version of this portrait >>>http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg > >Claire Clarke wrote: >> >>I think it's in 'AVisual History of Costume in the 16th Century', >>but I wouldn't swear to it. > >It is, but it's in black and white. It's in b/w in Digby's Elizabedthan Embroidery book too. CarolynKayta Barrows dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian www.FunStuft.com //// \\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ))) ((( <> )))) ) (((((( /----\ /---\)) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate m bunting [20,250]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: "Kate M Bunting" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:57:59 +0100 AlbertCat wrote: >>>I can't think of a specific painting or other illustration with this combo >though.[don't worry, somebody else will] I seem to recall a military-esque >outfit or perhaps a hunting scene...... And a portrait of some magnate later >than Elizabethan...Charles I? A Van Dyke? Of course that's not >Elizabethan. And the breeches of Van Dyck's time, although full, reach to below the knee, though if the boots are pulled right up over them they might look a bit like trunk-hose. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [24,251]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 06:25:41 -0400 Here is one, but I know I have seen a better one where the boots go all the way up. I believe the thigh boots with the "pumpkin pants" was a Spanish style. I will look more when I return home this evening. http://www.marquise.de/en/1500/pics/15xx_5.shtml ----- Original Message ----- > I don't do men's garb often and haven't even seriously though > about Elizabethan men's garb. Now a friend's son wants to do Elizabethan > and they have borrowed my Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. However, > he insists he has seen Elizabethan men's clothing that have the poofy > pants but with very tall boots. Can anyone point me to a picture that > fits that? Thanks > > Lalah > Never give up, Never surrender > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [21,252]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:02:30 +0200 Hi, I've updatet my partlet site http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html And I have a smal question. I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the lace. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use. The problem I have is that the fabrick is off white and the lace is white. I only have a few day's to finish the partlet. Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[31,253]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:51:16 EDT In a message dated 6/11/2003 6:00:38 AM Central Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > I've updatet my partlet site > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > Wow, that's so pretty! Damn, you're good. > And I have a smal question. > I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the > lace. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg > I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use. > The problem I have is that the fabrick is off white and the lace is white. > I only have a few day's to finish the partlet. > You could stick the lace in a pantyhose leg and run it through a small load with a tiny bit of ecru dye, like a tablespoon or less. Just to take the optic off your white. -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[20,254]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:47:16 -0500 Your partlet is going to be amazing when it's done! It's pretty amazing looking now! As for the lace, I think that the wider lace would be better just because there will be so much pattern in the body of the partlet that the narrower lace would just fade away. I think that the idea of running the lace thru a mild dye bath just to take the 'edge' off of the whiteness will probably be enough. I'm sure that, in period, everything didn't match absolutely perfectly. I can't wait to see you wearing the finished piece! Karen The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [30,255]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:47:28 -0500 Deredere Galbraith wrote: > I've updatet my partlet site > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html Looks fabulous! > And I have a smal question. > I would like to attach a ruff to the partlet but I am not sure aboud the > lace. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet10.jpg > I have two types of lace but I don't know wich one to use. Will you be starching the ruff? If you use the wider lace, I would set it back from the edge of the ruff fabric so that only a little of it sticks off the edge. As in this picture: http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletdetail.jpg Most examples of this kind of partlet have a very narrow ruff, and the big laces (with the whole width of the lace suspended by starch on the edge of the ruff) weren't really popular until later. Can't wait to see it! Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [17,256]CSuX: seeking color version of talbot portrait Subject: Re: [h-cost] seeking color version of Talbot portrait From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:49:19 -0500 Melanie Schuessler wrote: > >>>> I'm looking for a color version of this portrait >>>> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Talbot.jpg Carolyn Kayta Barrows wrote: > > It's in b/w in Digby's Elizabedthan Embroidery book too. Yes, that's where I first found it. I need a color version. Melanie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume andrea gideon [8,257]CSuX: iso mid 1600 s pics Subject: [h-cost] ISO mid 1600's pics From: Andrea Gideon Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:10:17 -0400 I'm looking for picutres of middle class women in England from about 1640-1655. I have found lots of wealthy women but not middle class or working women. Thanks! Andrea h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [30,258]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:21:10 +0200 > > Looks fabulous! Thanks!! > > > Will you be starching the ruff? If you use the wider lace, I would > set it back from the edge of the ruff fabric so that only a little of > it sticks off the edge. As in this picture: > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletdetail.jpg > Most examples of this kind of partlet have a very narrow ruff, and the > big laces (with the whole width of the lace suspended by starch on the > edge of the ruff) weren't really popular until later. If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the folded edge would that be better? I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am allergic to it. To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the pearls. Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [23,259]CSuX: iso mid 1600 s pics Subject: Re: [h-cost] ISO mid 1600's pics From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:23:05 -0500 Andrea Gideon wrote: > I'm looking for picutres of middle class women in England from about > 1640-1655. I have found lots of wealthy women but not middle class or > working women. Thanks! Upon a quick survey, I can't find anything for England. If France is close enough, check out Louis Le Nain. Though most of his people look high-class, Georges de La Tour has at least one lower class person as well (in his Hurdy-Gurdy Player). It's a little earlier than you want, though. Of course there's TONS of stuff from the Netherlands, but that's probably too far afield. Good luck, Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [29,260]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:28:06 -0500 Deredere Galbraith wrote: > If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the > folded edge would that be better? I think either lace would be fine as long as you only have a little bit hanging off the edge. > I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am > allergic to it. I understand if you don't want to starch it, but you don't have to use spray starch. There are instructions here http://www.faucet.net/costume/period/ruff.html for starching--obviously, I'm a fan of it! > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the pearls. Which pearls? I'm not sure I understand--will there be pearls on the ruff as well? Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cyn bucheger [20,261]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: "Cyn Bucheger" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:03:29 -0500 I've recently had good results with using cartridge pleats sewn to the collar at the mid point for a ruff that stands straight out from the neck. I've done it in a light weight but pretty crisp silk and also with a heavier linen. Neither one has been starched. Cyn > If I use a strip of linnen folded in half and sew the small lace on the > folded edge would that be better? > I don't want to starch the ruff. I tried the spray starch but I am > allergic to it. > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the pearls. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [22,262]CSuX: middle class elizabethan Subject: [h-cost] middle class Elizabethan From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:38:43 +0200 Dear Sarra Wryght. I am very sorry that i am much two late with this, but i went to your site: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/midclass.html And i enjoyed to watch your middle class dress very mutch. You did a fantastic job here! congratulations Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [22,263]CSuX: burgundian orange dress Subject: [h-cost] burgundian orange dress From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:42:39 +0200 Dear Michaela. I also must apologise for my late sneaking wiew on your orange burgundian dress. I love the way you have made your website, very nice! Interresting to see such old fashions, very nice! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [32,264]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:06:04 +0200 > > > > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the > pearls. > > Which pearls? I'm not sure I understand--will there be pearls on the > ruff as well? I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of metal wire it would just collapse. I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it will do to the puffy silk bits. Greetings, Deredere > > > Melanie Schuessler > http://www.faucet.net/costume > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [10,265]CSuX: is the internet slow today for you? Subject: [h-cost] Is the Internet slow today for you? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 08:16:08 -0700 Is the Internet a dog for everyone else this morning? I am getting a lot of 'server cannot be found' messages. I have high-speed wireless and I feel like I am on dial-up from 10 years ago. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [22,266]CSuX: tunic Subject: [h-cost] Tunic From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:44:51 +0200 Dear Saragrace! Very very nice work you have done here: http://www.saragrace.net/5A_tunic_tales.html That is a wonderfull ribbon you got there, it fits perfect for a tunic. Love your diary! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[13,267]CSuX: 16th century men s garb Subject: Re: [h-cost] 16th century men's garb From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:03:05 -0400 Thanks for the help. If anyone comes up with any other pictures, I would really appreciate it. This guy wants to do something absolutely period so he can enter it in a competition. He has done several outfits from the 17th century and they are great so I know he can do it. Actually, he designs the garb and his grandmother sews it. They are quite a team! Thanks again. Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [24,268]CSuX: tunic tales-another dress diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary From: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 09:31:38 -0700 (PDT) > All these dress diaries have inspired me to do one. I have really > enjoyed reading all of yours. I have posted one on an 8th century tunic > I am making for a friend. Now that I have written the diary, it sounds > boring..maybe I a have just read it too many times. Saragrace, The design is nice. How much was the trim? It is beautiful! And I agree that your linen color brings out the trim very nicely :~> I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates or because it is period for that time. I honestly don't know when piping came into use. I know that it gives a very nice, finished look but I didn't think that it was used before the Renaissance. Thanks for sharing your "diary"! Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie schuessler [24,269]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Melanie Schuessler Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:42:03 -0500 Deredere Galbraith wrote: >> > > I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg > The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of > metal wire it would just collapse. > I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it > will do to the puffy silk bits. Ahh. Well if I were doing it, I would underline the collar with something stiff (perhaps a linen canvas?) to hold it all up. Wire may also work, though sometimes a network of wire can go in directions you didn't intend, and you have to be careful where you put the ends. The starch doesn't go on the collar--just on the ruff. Good luck, Melanie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume stevie gamble [26,270]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: "Stevie Gamble" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:53:02 +0100 Deredere wrote: > > > To keep the collar standing I will put small metal wire trough the > > pearls on the neck part of the collar. > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg > The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of > metal wire it would just collapse. It does depend on what metal you choose. You might like to consider using a good quality stainless steel wire, rather than say gold or silver plate over a copper core. It's tougher, and seems to discolour less than copper based alternatives. And you do gain something on the weight side since you can use narrower wire. But whatever choice you make I'm sure that you will be lovely! best wishes Stevie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [21,271]CSuX: tunic tales-another dress diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:57:55 -0700 ~The design is nice. How much was the trim? [Sg:] It is ~ $20/yard and comes in several different combinations of color. ~I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates or ~because it is period for that time. [Sg:] I chose the piping mostly because I wanted to add something to the garment which would make it more interesting for me to make-I get bored very easily! But also just for the look. I haven't done much research into the textiles of the time. I don't know when it came into use either. Glad you all enjoyed it! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [24,272]CSuX: update of partlet , wired collar Subject: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:43:40 +0200 Dear Deredere, If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. You can get some wich is only 3 mm. wide, and you just cut it with a scissor, because it is soft. Then make some small bone casings in the linning collar, this would do the job very nicely, and you dont have to be afraid of cutting yourself with the ends! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [38,273]CSuX: update of partlet , wired collar Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:11:12 +0200 That is a brilliant idea!! I still have some of that stuf laying around somewere :-) . Thanks, Deredere Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote: >Dear Deredere, >If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding >beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. You can >get some wich is only 3 mm. wide, and you just cut it with a scissor, >because it is soft. Then make some small bone casings in the linning collar, >this would do the job very nicely, and you dont have to be afraid of cutting >yourself with the ends! > >Bjarne > > > > > >Leif og Bjarne Drews >www.my-drewscostumes.dk > >http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [16,274]CSuX: update of partlet , weight Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , Weight From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:30:33 +0200 Ieek! Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!! And it is not even lined! http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with small stones and pearls. Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [36,275]CSuX: update of partlet , weight Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , Weight From: "Deredere Galbraith" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 21:38:48 +0200 Deredere, dont despair, use many bones, one for each pattern repeat, this should keep it up! I am sure it will! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Ieek! > > Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!! > And it is not even lined! > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg > I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with > small stones and pearls. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[17,276]CSuX: update of partlet , wired collar Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:36:55 EDT In a message dated 6/11/2003 2:53:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > If i were you, absolutely wonderfull work you have done here, outstanding > beautifull!, i would use that plastic boning, called wedding bone. There's also fishing line. I mean it comes in very heavy gauges and can be used to almost invisibly support something that's not too heavy. They used it a lot on a show I worked in the 18th century millinery....making lace stand and such. I lost the address to your site. Could you re-post it. Thanx h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [27,277]CSuX: update of partlet , wired collar Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:59:53 +0200 > > >There's also fishing line. I mean it comes in very heavy gauges and can be >used to almost invisibly support something that's not too heavy. They used it a >lot on a show I worked in the 18th century millinery....making lace stand and >such. > > I think this will be much too heavy for fishing line. I think I will use the plastic boning. and the sew in boning or what ever you call it. http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partletboning.jpg >I lost the address to your site. Could you re-post it. Thanx > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/ Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [45,278]CSuX: update partlet & lace question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Update partlet & lace question From: Kimiko Small Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 15:14:24 -0700 At 05:06 PM 6/11/2003 +0200, you wrote: >I mean the pearls on the neck part of the collar. >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/isabeldevaloisd.jpg >The pearls and fake jewels are so heavy that without the support of metal >wire it would just collapse. >I don't think starch will be strong enough and I am not sure what it will >do to the puffy silk bits. > >Greetings, > Deredere I love the progress you are making with this partlet. It is fantastic! May I suggest underlining the collar of the partlet with an interfacing, such as a tailor's goathair/wool interfacing, and hand padstitching the area. I just learned this technique and used it on a doublet collar, and it helped it to stand up and away from the neck rather nicely. The lining hides all the stitches inside, and the small stitches on the outside should be hidden by the pouffy material. However, the doublet didn't have the weight of the pearls and jewels added on. Maybe padstitching along with some boning might work well together. And my suggestion on the lace is the larger version. To me, this is a bold partlet and the larger lace seems to support the boldness of it all. The smaller lace might be lost in the whole thing. Just a couple of thoughts. I can't wait to see how this all turns out! Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [25,279]CSuX: (way ot sorry!) why can t my puter find this??? Subject: [h-cost] (Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this??? From: "H. Law" Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:02:55 -0500 I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before! Am i doing something really dumb? Edwinna Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Ieek! > > Only the collar piece weights aboud 80 gram!! > And it is not even lined! > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet11.jpg > I don't know heavy an original partlet would be, All those jewels with > small stones and pearls. > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dhannti [15,280]CSuX: (way ot sorry!) why can t my puter find this??? Subject: Re: [h-cost] (Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this??? From: Dhannti Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:53:42 -0400 H. Law wrote: > I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before! Am i doing > something really dumb? > > Edwinna Don't feel bad, I can't see it either. I am told server is not found. Di h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [21,281]CSuX: (ot) re is the internet slow today for you? Subject: [h-cost] (OT) re Is the Internet slow today for you? From: "H. Law" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:00:52 -0500 YES!! It's almost "tomorrow" right now and i had trouble all evening (didn't see your post til now.) It seems to have improved now Heather L Saragrace Knauf wrote: >Is the Internet a dog for everyone else this morning? I am getting a >lot of 'server cannot be found' messages. I have high-speed wireless >and I feel like I am on dial-up from 10 years ago. > >Sg > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [24,282]CSuX: thanks (was way ot sorry!) why can t my puter find this??? Subject: [h-cost] Thanks (was Way OT Sorry!) Why can't my puter find this??? From: "H. Law" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:12:33 -0500 Guess we can add "lag" to that list with death and taxes on it... Heather L "Edwinna" on guess which list :-P Dhannti wrote: > H. Law wrote: > >> I am sure I have looked at Deredere's partlet before! Am i doing >> something really dumb? >> >> Edwinna > > Don't feel bad, I can't see it either. I am told server is not found. > > Di > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [32,283]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:56:46 -0500 At 03:39 PM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Congratulations! > >Check out: >http://ourworld.cs.com/_ht_a/constancefairfax/Breughel.htm > >if the link dosen't work go to Drea's site www.costume.dm.net and click on >Breughel's Babies. > >This won't be much help for dressing a newborn, but is very useful for >when the kid is a few months old. I'm using this article as a jumping off >point for the research on the clothes I'm making for my son Thomas(5 weeks >yesterday!) to wear this fall when he starts going to events. > >I'm not sure I agree with all of the author's conclusions regarding the >layers, but I need to do more research and find better reproductions of >the paintings. > >-Katie Thanks, I already had Constance's stuff in mind. : ) However, my brother and his wife aren't in to any sort of reenactment so I will have to tone it down a bit. Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [18,284]CSuX: i m now an aunt! help -- clothes suggestions? Subject: Re: [h-cost] I'm now an aunt! Help -- clothes suggestions? From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 23:55:31 -0500 At 06:33 AM 6/9/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Congratulations! (And a sympathetic "Ouch!" to the mother, that's a BIG >baby!) > >Cynthia Virtue made some adorable tunics and hoods for her twins. You might >want to check her page for pictures. > >Dianne Thanks! I remember those pictures - great idea. I will look into that. Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [35,285]CSuX: tunic tales-another dress diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary From: "H. Law" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 01:02:05 -0500 Yum those colors! (on my screen, a reddish tone to the dusty plum and a sorta warm tone to all of it) I *want* that trim (right, yeah) Where did you get it? Looking forward to the finished product pix H L Saragrace Knauf wrote: >~The design is nice. How much was the trim? >[Sg:] It is ~ $20/yard and comes in several different combinations of >color. > >~I am wondering if you chose the piping because of the look it creates >or >~because it is period for that time. > >[Sg:] I chose the piping mostly because I wanted to add something to the >garment which would make it more interesting for me to make-I get bored >very easily! But also just for the look. I haven't done much research >into the textiles of the time. I don't know when it came into use >either. > >Glad you all enjoyed it! > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [22,286]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:12:52 -0500 Greetings, I've recently become interested in a particular style of gown (the extant one I've seen is dated to the 1780s). Ribiero only refers to it as a "Robe a la Anglais" (excuse the missing accents) however that seems to be a broad category of gowns from the 18th century. Does anyone know of a more specific term for the gowns that have the inverted-v opening in the front? The closest portrait I've found so far is: http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_3.shtml or http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_2.shtml but they aren't quite right since the style of gown I'm thinking of has a well fitted bodice just open most of the front. You get a better idea here - http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/fragonar/p-fragona4.htm The bodice back seems to be usually cut en fourrere (sp?). Does anyon know for sure? Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h. law [36,287]CSuX: portrait of a moravian woman-new to me Subject: Re: [h-cost] Portrait of a Moravian Woman-new to me From: "H. Law" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 03:48:21 -0500 The link is split about halfway thru the line by yahoo. It should go all the way across your whole screen. If this one (right below) gets split too maybe someone could email it to you? (The enlargement's a pretty small pic http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11&full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 HL Catherine Olanich Raymond wrote: >On Monday 09 June 2003 04:00 pm, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > >>http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/view1zoom.asp?dep=11 >>>&item=24%2E80%2E529> &full=1&mark=0&item=24%2E80%2E529 >> >>This portrait was new to me and thought you all might enjoy it. >> >> > > >I'm confused. Neither link identifies itself as being of a Moravian Woman. >One is titled "The Epiphany" (Picture to match) and one is titled "Madonna >and Child" (Picture to match) > >I do not see a portrait, let alone one of a Moravian female. :-) > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[15,288]CSuX: update of partlet , wired collar Subject: Re: [h-cost] update of partlet , wired collar From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:33:00 EDT In a message dated 6/11/2003 5:06:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > think this will be much too heavy for fishing line. I knew you were gonna say that. But you [like me before I saw it] would not believe how sturdy those really high tess lines are. Anyway....the boning will be practically the same thing. Looks fantastic, BTW!...your parlet that is. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cynthia abel [32,289]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: "Cynthia Abel" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:38:30 -0500 The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a pleated skirt, rather than the Robe de la francaise(also known to us as a "Watteau gown" after the French painter who depicted many females in his works in gowns of this style)that has loose, generous pleats from the shoulders to hem. The RDLF is a decendant of the late 17c century, mantua, which started as more casual wear, influenced loosely by Asian clothing, and was fitted by pleating front and back to the wearer. The mantua eventually evolved into more formal wear,(the manteau) and since women could make it easily as it didn't require the physical strength to sew through fabric, lining(s), boning, or infringe on male tailors, women were permitted to become dressmakers or mantua-makers, after this gown.(Men made "pairs of bodies, or stays--forerunners of the corset during this time--although I suspect these were just the heavy-duty foundations for those that could afford for others to make their clothing). The term persisted identifying a female dressmaker, long after the mantua passed out of wear. See Janet Arnold's "Patterns of Fashion" Vol. 1 and "Revolution in Fashion" for scaled patterns of the Robe de l'anglais. Arnold's work also has patterns for a mantua and at least one Robe de la francaise. This info is just off the top of my head, so anyone jump in with more info or corrections. Cindy Abel Cindy Abel h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [62,290]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:50:55 +0200 Dear Danielle. So, you like this style two? This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise. So if you are cofused? Dont be. This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise style. The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back neck. Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes down in a deep point in the back. Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt. The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the bodice in one side, and pinned in the other side. If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can use in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small book, wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big Kyoto book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to 1780-90 i think. Many greetings Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings, > > I've recently become interested in a particular style of gown (the extant > one I've seen is dated to the 1780s). Ribiero only refers to it as a "Robe > a la Anglais" (excuse the missing accents) however that seems to be a broad > category of gowns from the 18th century. Does anyone know of a more > specific term for the gowns that have the inverted-v opening in the > front? The closest portrait I've found so far is: > http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_3.shtml or > http://www.marquise.de/en/1700/pics/1790_2.shtml but they aren't quite > right since the style of gown I'm thinking of has a well fitted bodice just > open most of the front. You get a better idea here - > http://cgfa.sunsite.dk/fragonar/p-fragona4.htm The bodice back seems to be > usually cut en fourrere (sp?). Does anyon know for sure? > > Cheers, > Danielle > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[25,291]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 11:06:06 EDT In a message dated 6/12/2003 10:38:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, brujne@creighton.edu writes: > The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the > gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a > pleated skirt, This is true...though the curved back "seams" are usually pleats sewn down to the lining. The style starts by sewing down the free pleats of the Robe de la Francaise [And I HATE the term "Watteau gown". It's just not accurate. Watteau also painted fantasies....with comedia del art influences.] The cut away overdresses, like in the paintings that the links took me to, often have backs of stitched down pleats. Their waists start to rise and these overdresses are still seen with the Empire silhouette. There's an outrageously pleated sample in "Fashion in Detail". The 1780s is a period of transition. I'd venture a guess that the term Robe de L'anglais at this time is more to distinguish it from other emerging forms like the "Round Gown" and "Chemise Gown". The blue underdress in one painting looks just like a Chemise Gown. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate m bunting [25,292]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: "Kate M Bunting" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:18:31 +0100 Cindy Abel wrote: >>> The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the >gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a >pleated skirt, rather than the Robe de la francaise(also known to us as a >"Watteau gown" >This info is just off the top of my head, so anyone jump in with more info >or corrections. It's "robe a l'anglaise" and "a la francaise" (meaning "in the English/French style"). Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate m bunting [12,293]CSuX: temporarily unsubscribing Subject: [h-cost] Temporarily unsubscribing From: "Kate M Bunting" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:22:59 +0100 I'm shortly off to the Orkney Islands for 10 days so I 'm unsubscribing so as not to be swamped with messages when I get back. Will talk to you all soon. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [60,294]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:25:46 +0200 Dear Albertcat. A robe a l'anglaise has not stitched down pleats in the back! Usually some polonaise dresses has stitched down pleats in the back. I think you perhaps refered to Waughs Robe a langlaise early 1790ies, but i would not call that dress a langlaise, it looks more like a pierrot jacket with skirt. A "normal" anglaise dress has 5 seams in the bodice, and they usually all are boned, no pleats! It is very difficult to make those terminations, there are so many styles used in 18th century, but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice! :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 6/12/2003 10:38:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, > brujne@creighton.edu writes: > > > > The Robe de l'anglais, I believe, actually refers more to the cut of the > > gown in back, which is fitted with the usual curved seams in the back, to a > > pleated skirt, > > This is true...though the curved back "seams" are usually pleats sewn down to > the lining. The style starts by sewing down the free pleats of the Robe de la > Francaise [And I HATE the term "Watteau gown". It's just not accurate. > Watteau also painted fantasies....with comedia del art influences.] The cut away > overdresses, like in the paintings that the links took me to, often have backs of > stitched down pleats. Their waists start to rise and these overdresses are > still seen with the Empire silhouette. There's an outrageously pleated sample in > "Fashion in Detail". > > The 1780s is a period of transition. I'd venture a guess that the term Robe > de L'anglais at this time is more to distinguish it from other emerging forms > like the "Round Gown" and "Chemise Gown". The blue underdress in one painting > looks just like a Chemise Gown. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [20,295]CSuX: 1780 terminology question Subject: [h-cost] 1780 terminology question From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 17:31:29 +0200 Hi again. And it is difficult to determin different gowns. In Arnolds book, there are 2 gowns called an open gown with matching petticoat, wich i would call robe anglaise two. And if you use a polonaise without pulling up the overskirt into the 3 loops, and have the skirt fall down, it could go for an anglaise gown two! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [9,296]CSuX: tunic tales-another dress diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Tunic Tales-another 'dress' diary From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:51:44 -0700 I got it a Jo Anne fabrics...be sure to get a 50% of coupon before you buy it!! It is worth signing up for their mailing list for that ! Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[31,297]CSuX: "costume connections" patterns (and others) Subject: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others) From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:23:17 EDT I have a couple of costuming pattern questions to ask, so please bear with me. These are in relation to medieval costumes- specifically the bliaut and "corsage" (as Herbert Norris calls it in Medieval Costume and Fashion), and the kirtle and sideless surcoat/surcote. I'm rather determined to make myself a kirtle and sideless surcote, and the bliaut and corsage are actually for Eowyn's "Shield Maiden" gown in LOTR. I was looking at the illustrations in MC&F, and the bliaut/corsage combination looked eerily similar to the LOTR gown! So. Now for my actual questions. First, Costume Connections sells a 14th century sideless surcoat and undergown pattern. Has anyone used this before? How accurate/easy to deal with is it? I can handle making some historical alterations, but I want something that's vaguely historical- if I need to do enough that it's easier to just draft my own and pray, I'd rather not waste the money. Rocking Horse sells a kirtle pattern that I'm told is good- any opinions? Lastly, does anyone know of a company that sells a decent bliaut pattern? For this particular costume, I've been given the suggestions of Mccall's 3372 and Simplicity's 9891, but I wanted to know if anyone had "historical" suggestions. I don't care about the "corsage" (which is, in the movie, an underbust corset-type garment on top of a stretchy vest) overmuch; I'll likely end up drafting the bottom half myself. There's no bust involved, so how hard can it be? Christine User of famous last words used by costumers before the hair starts being pulled out! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume jean waddie [56,298]CSuX: ralegh and pearls Subject: Re: [h-cost] Ralegh and pearls From: Jean Waddie Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 20:16:28 +0100 It's important to check that both portraits are actually painted within the period you're portraying. Portraits were very much copied, and a later painter may (deliberately or not) reinterpret some details in the style of his own time. There's one of a woman, I can't remember the details, but the original is early Tudor, Henry VIII style, and the copy is late Elizabethan and the painter has lengthened the stomacher, so it looks right to him but it looks weird compared to the original. Jean Sue Clemenger wrote >I'm not much for enlightening on this one, but I can always add to the >confusion! >I've always loved that cape (pearls rock!), but have never seen that >second portrait. I'd being going "huh?", too. >There are difference in the styles of clothing (other than the cape) >that Raleigh's wearing...perhaps a time difference?, and the color in >the portrait has been "updated" to be more stylish? >Perhaps one painting is a sort of duplicate of the other?, in the way >that some portraits were copied/recopied. The red could be an error or >an artist's interpretation. >--sue > > >Stevie Gamble wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I've been trying to sort out the details on Walter Ralegh's fur lined >> pearl-strewn short cape, but the various portraits are rather >> puzzling. >> >> The one attributed to 'H': >> >> http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Walter%20Ralegh%20B.jpg >> >> seems to show black fabric, >> >> but a different portrait at >> >> http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/raleghport.jpg >> >> seems to be a bright red. >> >> Can anyone enlighten me, please? >> >> best wishes >> Stevie -- Jean Waddie h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[23,299]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 14:34:27 EDT In a message dated 6/12/2003 11:33:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice! I must respectfully disagree. There are dresses with seams but that 1st starts out as tacking the pleats down to the lining. That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB release into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French term for it....my French sux! Anyway....this continues right into the early 1800s with a high waist. It even becomes a major feature of those cut way jackets with a "zone". The fabric will have pleats sewn to the lining all the way from where the jacket meets at top CF to the side waist...all the way around...and they release into a peplum at the back. Indeed, it how the jacket is shaped in this instance. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume emily hartman [30,300]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: "Emily Hartman" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 15:19:16 -0500 >That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the > term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB release > into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French term for > it....my French sux! en fourreau? For what it's worth, I completely agree with AlbertCat. Emily Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît pas --Pascal, Pensees, 1670 That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the > term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB release > into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French term for > it....my French sux! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[12,301]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 16:10:23 EDT In a message dated 6/12/2003 3:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, hartma44@msu.edu writes: > en fourreau? > Thank you! It was driving me nuts! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [57,302]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 23:43:44 +0200 Hi. But we were talking about the anglaise style dress. If you look in Norah Waughs cutting diagrams on the anglaise dress on page 95, cutting diagram xxii, this dress has no pleats only a 6 piece bodice and skirt. It is the same case with the cutting diagram of the Kyoto book, of a robe anglaise. I think you are talking about the earlyer style of dress, wich you see a lot in f.instance Costume in Detail by Nancy Bradfield. This style evolved from the mantua. But a robe anglaise has a seperate bodice and skirt, there are not any pleats that goes from the bodice to the skirt Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 6/12/2003 11:33:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > > but i insist, it has not pleats in the bodice! > > I must respectfully disagree. > > There are dresses with seams but that 1st starts out as tacking the pleats > down to the lining. That's how you get 18th century gowns with the backs...the > term has slipped my mind...where the stitched down pleats in the CB release > into the skirt without a seam. I'm sorry....I can't remember the French term for > it....my French sux! > > Anyway....this continues right into the early 1800s with a high waist. It > even becomes a major feature of those cut way jackets with a "zone". The fabric > will have pleats sewn to the lining all the way from where the jacket meets at > top CF to the side waist...all the way around...and they release into a peplum > at the back. Indeed, it how the jacket is shaped in this instance. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[11,303]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:31:15 EDT In a message dated 6/12/2003 5:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > But we were talking about the anglaise style dress. > Yes, they come en fourreau and not en fourreau. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[18,304]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:49:58 EDT About this business...I direct you to Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion, Vol 1, pages 36 and 37. And for an early version pages 22 and 23. And in Nora Waugh to diagrams XIV and XVI...which she calls a mantua but are also A L'anglaise. Norah's terms aren't as definitive as you would like them to be, alas. >From the big Kyoto book: pages 79 and 84 & 85. These are labeled "A la polonaise", but that merely refers to the draped up skirt. What if you chose not to wear it a la Polonaise? It's still, Polonaise or not, a L'anglaise. This may not be the case in European terminology; I mean the Kyoto book calls the bodice with skirt gowns a L'anglaise. But by, say, 1740's I'd think a "mantua" would elicit a "court dress" idea. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume audrey bergeron-morin [11,305]CSuX: "costume connections" patterns (and others) Subject: Re: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others) From: "Audrey Bergeron-Morin" Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 18:55:35 -0400 > Lastly, does anyone know of a company that sells a decent bliaut pattern? If you can make a T-tunic, you should be able to make a bliaut. Or at least the bliaut as I picture it, which might not be the same thing you're thinking of :-) A bliaut from what I know is just a fitted T-tunic, with gores to widen the bottom. As for the sleeves, I don't really know yet. Mine was laced at the sides, but it wasn't meant to be historical one. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [43,306]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 22:21:30 -0500 Bjarne, I fell in love with this style when I saw a robe a la anglais with this style bodice on display in London. I've always liked things that were unusual and this style strikes me as unusual. : ) Thank you. I am trying to make an appointment to examine a gown of this style and I wanted to use the correct term. Compere it is. : ) I will keep the pattern in mind. Unfortunately, I have been unable to purchase the Revolutions in Fashion book - I keep looking though. Cheers, Danielle At 04:50 PM 6/12/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Dear Danielle. >So, you like this style two? >This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise. >So if you are cofused? Dont be. >This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It >could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise >style. >The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back neck. >Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes >down in a deep point in the back. >Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt. >The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the bodice >in one side, and pinned in the other side. >If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can use >in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small book, >wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big Kyoto >book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to 1780-90 >i think. > >Many greetings > >Bjarne h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [68,307]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: "Danielle Nunn-Weinberg" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:20:18 +0200 Hi Danielle. It is a pitty, you dont have it, but if you email me privately, i shall scan the pattern for you and send! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Bjarne, > > I fell in love with this style when I saw a robe a la anglais with this > style bodice on display in London. I've always liked things that were > unusual and this style strikes me as unusual. : ) > > Thank you. I am trying to make an appointment to examine a gown of this > style and I wanted to use the correct term. Compere it is. : ) > > I will keep the pattern in mind. Unfortunately, I have been unable to > purchase the Revolutions in Fashion book - I keep looking though. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > At 04:50 PM 6/12/2003 +0200, you wrote: > >Dear Danielle. > >So, you like this style two? > >This is just the same opening i am making to my robe francaise. > >So if you are cofused? Dont be. > >This inverted V closing got very fashionable from about 1780 to 1795. It > >could be used for both a robe francaise, as i am making, and the anglaise > >style. > >The francaise, as you know has those pleats that falls from the back neck. > >Anglaise dress has a fitted bodice with bones in the back seams. It goes > >down in a deep point in the back. > >Both dresses has open overskirts, and a matching underskirt. > >The inverted V front is usually called a compere, it is sewed to the bodice > >in one side, and pinned in the other side. > >If you are interrested in this style, there is an Arnold pattern you can use > >in the small Kyoto book. There is not any picture of it in the small book, > >wich is odd, when they have the pattern there, but if you have the big Kyoto > >book, there is a lovely picture of it, it is cream collored dated to 1780-90 > >i think. > > > >Many greetings > > > >Bjarne > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [53,308]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:29:29 +0200 Hi Albertcat, I did not men to argue about this that much. But i just wanted to give some clear dress terminologies for a person, who is not familiar with the different styles. The term for a robe anglaise, is a late 18th century definition of some english fashions wich became very popular in France from 1775 and till about 1790. It could be, that some calls the polonaise style also for a robe anglaise, but i was talking about this particular dress with split bodice pieces in the back. The french fashion magazine Galleries des Modes et Costumes Francaise has some prints, wich calls this model with 5 seam bodice for a robe anglaise. I did not intend to be rude, just precise in the terminology of a robe anglaise. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > About this business...I direct you to Janet Arnold "Patterns of Fashion, Vol > 1, pages 36 and 37. And for an early version pages 22 and 23. > > And in Nora Waugh to diagrams XIV and XVI...which she calls a mantua but are > also A L'anglaise. Norah's terms aren't as definitive as you would like them > to be, alas. > > >From the big Kyoto book: pages 79 and 84 & 85. These are labeled "A la > polonaise", but that merely refers to the draped up skirt. What if you chose not to > wear it a la Polonaise? It's still, Polonaise or not, a L'anglaise. > > This may not be the case in European terminology; I mean the Kyoto book calls > the bodice with skirt gowns a L'anglaise. But by, say, 1740's I'd think a > "mantua" would elicit a "court dress" idea. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [31,309]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:31:32 +0200 Hi. again. You say it, it is called a Fourreau gown, and that is not an anglaise gown. Otherwise it was not called Fourreau! I dont think you understand my mening. No offense Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 6/12/2003 5:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > > But we were talking about the anglaise style dress. > > > > Yes, they come en fourreau and not en fourreau. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[24,310]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question Subject: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 10:01:11 EDT I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except for long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap and a whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want to do fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems (duh!), french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I have a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle class margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little pearl cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her embroidery?) What should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cyn bucheger [48,311]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question Subject: Re: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question From: "Cyn Bucheger" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:01:52 -0500 > I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm > stumped. ..... but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I > really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I have > a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Elizabethan's had a number of stitches that they really liked to use, and while I won't say they didn't use split stitch, I don't seem to find it used very often. I would suggest you look up a self published book by Jane Zimmerman, called Elizabethan Embroidery, I found it in my local needlework shop for about $25. In it, she goes through the stitches commonly found in Elizabethan embroideries, the type of thread used and how they were used(filling, outline, etc) and then she gives instructions on how to do them as well as some variations of the stitch. Any embroidery > junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel > wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle class > margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen > thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little pearl > cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle > class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her embroidery?) What > should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's > and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks! > I've found references to silk embroidery all over the place, wool on household stuff. I haven't found any references to Elizabethan embroideries in linen thread. I'm still looking though. Cyn h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[23,312]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 11:01:14 EDT In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:36:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > did not men to argue about this that much. > We aren't arguing. We're getting our terms straight. It's a matter of subdivisions really. I consider a gown a L'anglaise to be one with a fitted back as opposed to a gown a la Francaise...with flowing back pleats. The Gown a L'anglaise may be achieved en fourreau or [later in the period] with separate back seams and an attached skirt, usually with a point CB. All three styles may be worn a la Polonaise...or with the skirt draped into 3 parts. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [30,313]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:20:43 -0700 In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with whom I was not familiar. In my internet searches I came across very little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.) But I did come across some links I thought you all might be interested in: An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the less http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm Here is his bio: http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his stuff online (that isn't related to his books of hours) I am particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some out there where you can see Breughel type stuff. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [48,314]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: Drea Leed Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:13:37 -0400 (EDT) Search for "da Costa Hours" or "Flemish Calendar". Those are the two that I've seen which contain the most peasant/lower class depictions. Also, an alternate (dutch) spelling of Bening's last name is "Beninck". A search for "Flemish Miniature" art may also turn up some of his stuff. I recently got a facsimile copy of the da Costa Hours, and I LRRRRVE it so much. I'm on the lookout for a good facsimile of the Flemish Calendar, but they all cost an arm & a leg & aren't available. Happy surfing, Drea On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with > whom I was not familiar. In my internet searches I came across very > little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.) But I did > come across some links I thought you all might be interested in: > > An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages > > http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html > > > Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the > less > > http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm > > > Here is his bio: > > http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html > > > My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his > stuff online (that isn't related to his books of hours) I am > particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some > out there where you can see Breughel type stuff. > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [36,315]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: Drea Leed Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Oops! I meant the Grimani Breviary, not the Da Costa Hours. (duh. :) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > In a discussion with Drea off-list she mentioned a Flemish artist with > whom I was not familiar. In my internet searches I came across very > little (he isn't in some of my regular places like CGFA etc.) But I did > come across some links I thought you all might be interested in: > > An interesting article on the art of giving in the Middle Ages > > http://www.absolutearts.com/artsnews/2000/11/21/27743.html > > > Someone has recreated his book of hours-all sold out, but cool none the > less > > http://www.finns-books.com/flowers.htm > > > Here is his bio: > > http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/bio/a355-1.html > > > My question finally is, do any of you know where I can find some of his > stuff online (that isn't related to his books of hours) I am > particulary interested in women's clothing-Drea says he does have some > out there where you can see Breughel type stuff. > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[14,316]CSuX: simon bening - a question and some links-cool book Subject: RE: [h-cost] Simon Bening - a question and some links-cool book From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:31:33 -0400 Hi- I have a list of paintings by Breugel's predecessors/contemporaries/followers that I've put together but do not have at my fingertips. In the meantime, if you search for "Simon Bening" Peasants you will find quite a bit of stuff. Also, you will want to find the "Seven Works of Charity" which I have at home in a book. If you cannot find it, let me know. When searching on the web, you may want to search for "Simon Bening" Charity "Simon Bening" Caritas [Latin for Charity] Constance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [65,317]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question Subject: [h-cost] Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question From: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:55:53 +0200 Hi, I would use some silk floss for the roses. Could that thread not have ben a gift you had got from someone? Anyway, for the roses wich has 5 flower leaves each, i would use long and short stitch. Dont be afraid, the roses are not big, so it should not be difficult. Make a stitch at the start and end of each flower leaf. Then make a stitch from the point of the middle leaf and into the petals. Then you have a direction to use for the stitches! Make some small sampler first, then you don't have to be afraid before you start the shirt. I would only use one thread if i were you, if you use more, it easily gets bulky. Good luck, it is a lovely projekt wish it was me who were making that shirt. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm > stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except for > long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap and a > whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want to do > fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems (duh!), > french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I > really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a petal, I have > a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery > junkies out there got any advice? I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel > wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the middle class > margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen > thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a little pearl > cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle > class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her embroidery?) What > should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's > and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks! > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [12,318]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 13:54:06 -0700 In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are some neat ones on the site. http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume betsy marshall [24,319]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: "Betsy Marshall" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:16:24 -0500 The green bump in the front row looks like a road or path turns to go into or through it, might they be granaries of some sort? Is the page description "area of cooking"? (I'm guessing wildly here- my command of French is considerably less than useful) Betsy -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are some neat ones on the site. http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [24,320]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Robin Netherton Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 16:39:26 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think > the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are > some neat ones on the site. > > http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm Dunno, Easter eggs? I'd love to know too! Something having to do with food, I think, and probably an allegorical or symbolic representation. Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting dizzy... --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kate pinner [22,321]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Kate Pinner Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 18:11:03 -0400 Robin Netherton wrote: Dunno, Easter eggs? I'd love to know too! or the window overlooks Jurrasic Park and those are dinosaur eggs.. Neat picture tho and the perspective really is a precursor to Escher. > food, I think, and probably an allegorical or symbolic representation. > > Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective > in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the > top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting > dizzy... > > --Robin > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [22,322]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: RE: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Robin Netherton Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:15:53 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 13 Jun 2003, Betsy Marshall wrote: > The green bump in the front row looks like a road or path turns to go > into or through it, might they be granaries of some sort? Is the page > description "area of cooking"? (I'm guessing wildly here- my command > of French is considerably less than useful) Betsy The French, I think, translates to "back kitchen" or "rear kitchen." The book it comes from is one of many with a title similar to "On the Nature of Things," meaning anything from philosophy to alchemy to a practical manual of some activity, or all three at once. Without the context, I have no clue what it says ... and there's not enough text showing for me to try reading what's on the page. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [40,323]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: Heather Meadows Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:32:48 -0700 Um... This is fascinating, but I'm finding it really hard to follow along without illustrations. Could you provide some links to illustrate your terms, or page numbers from the Kyoto book or something? thanks! .heather. On Friday, June 13, 2003, at 08:01 AM, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/13/2003 3:36:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > drewscph@post12.tele.dk writes: > > >> did not men to argue about this that much. >> > > We aren't arguing. We're getting our terms straight. > > It's a matter of subdivisions really. > > I consider a gown a L'anglaise to be one with a fitted back as opposed > to a > gown a la Francaise...with flowing back pleats. > > The Gown a L'anglaise may be achieved en fourreau or [later in the > period] > with separate back seams and an attached skirt, usually with a point > CB. > > All three styles may be worn a la Polonaise...or with the skirt draped > into 3 > parts. > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michael tartaglio [14,324]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: michael tartaglio Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 22:03:35 -0400 Hi. I'm going to make a guess here. Since something mentions cuisine, and diet and medicine were intertwined in this period, and there is a fellow compounding something in a mortar, next to the storage containers, and other persons appear to be eating, drinking and ?using a tissue?, I'm guessing there is some sort of alchemical allegory to the "hills" and their colors. If someone has a better trans. of the title, this might shed some light... Cheers, Mike T. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [14,325]CSuX: fabric.com dupioni on sale. Subject: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale. From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 20:11:44 -0700 Okay, sorry to do this to you, but dupioni just went on sale. They have some interesting colors. I don't think I've seen lower prices lately other than that you can get dupioni in the LA fabric district for $6.00 (if you have a guy with you). I got some of the midnight red and the warm gold. :0) Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [36,326]CSuX: fabric.com dupioni on sale. Subject: FW: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale. From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:09:28 -0700 Slapping my forehead! Duh! Helps to tell you where: www.fabric.com Phoenix textiles! "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf ~Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 8:12 PM ~To: Flemish_Garb@yahoogroups.com; h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: [h-cost] Fabric.com Dupioni on sale. ~ ~Okay, sorry to do this to you, but dupioni just went on sale. They have ~some interesting colors. I don't think I've seen lower prices lately ~other than that you can get dupioni in the LA fabric district for $6.00 ~(if you have a guy with you). ~ ~I got some of the midnight red and the warm gold. :0) ~ ~Sg ~ ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine [36,327]CSuX: fabric shopping in nc? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC? From: "Katherine" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 02:59:58 -0700 Ooh, real silk and wool? Lovely, I can't find anything like that locally. Well, I did find wool once about two years ago :) I'll have to bug my friend about a side trip. Thanks :) Katherine > > I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was > > wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area. > > > > Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want > upholstery fabric. > > Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south > near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff. > Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good > laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice > wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out. Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine [45,328]CSuX: "costume connections" patterns (and others) Subject: [h-cost] "Costume Connections" patterns (and others) From: "Katherine" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 03:27:25 -0700 Hi Christine :) I don't have answers to your pattern questions, I haven't used any of the patterns you mentioned (I used the RHF sideless gowns pattern for my Refugee dress, which, except for running big, was fine), but I do have an answer for the corset. I drafted my own and it was one of the easiest things I've done. I even posted directions online. If you're interested, you can see them here: http://www.koshka-the-cat.com/shieldmaiden.html (just click on the corset link from there!) Good luck, Katherine On 12 Jun 2003 at 12:01, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 13:23:17 EDT > From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com > suggestions. I don't care about the "corsage" (which is, in the movie, an > underbust corset-type garment on top of a stretchy vest) overmuch; I'll > likely end up drafting the bottom half myself. There's no bust involved, > so how hard can it be? > > > Christine > User of famous last words used by costumers before the hair starts being > pulled out! Katherine "I really think that artists to-day try to see how far they can make fun of the public without its revolting." Marie, Queen of Roumania My Dress Site http://www.koshka-the-cat.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume laura dickerson [150,329]CSuX: robin netherton talks in new england Subject: [h-cost] Robin Netherton talks in New England From: "Laura Dickerson" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 11:32:35 +0000 Hi, I'm new here. It might be a little weird for one's first post to be a long announcement. I hope that's OK. For people who want to attend: If you're putting a check in the mail, please also let me know by email (at this address or the one below) so I can add you to the registration list as soon as possible. Announcing a day of historical costume lectures at MIT (Cambridge, MA) on November 8, 2003. Robin Netherton is an independent scholar specializing in costume of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. Since 1982, she has given lectures and workshops for academic audiences, historical societies, reenactment groups, and writers' organizations, both on practical aspects of period costume and on costume as an approach to social history, art history, and literature. Her research focuses on the development of the cut of Western European clothing in the 12th through 15th centuries, and also on the depiction and interpretation of clothing by artists and historians, both medieval and modern. Room opens for seating at 9:30 AM. The scheduled times are approximate, as it is hard to estimate how long the Q & A times will last after the lectures, but the first lectures should begin at 10 AM SHARP TWO 14TH-CENTURY DRESS STYLES (2 hours) Includes two lectures: The Gothic Fitted Dress The fitted fashion popular throughout much of Europe in the late 14th century and early 15th century has been the object of much speculation, regarding such matters as who wore it, how it was made, and even what it was called. (The term "cotehardie," often applied to this style, was most likely not the term used by the women who wore it.) A detailed analysis shows the various versions and uses of this style, how it evolved from earlier unfitted fashions, and how it formed the basis for the development of the more structured fashions of the 15th and 16th centuries. The lecture examines some likely construction techniques as well as the social significance of the fashion and its presentation in artwork. The Greenland Gored Gown Costume references frequently cite the garment finds from the 14th- century cemetery at Herjolfsnes, Greenland, as examples of medieval European clothing construction. This lecture re-examines some common assumptions about these gowns in light of overlooked details in the original study report, the cultural context of the Greenland colony, and the likely methods of clothing construction used by the Greenlanders. The discussion gives special attention to the oft-cited "10-gore" gown and how it might influence our understanding of 14th-century European fashion. noon - 2 LUNCH BREAK Participants may bring lunch or eat at any of several on-campus or nearby eateries. 2 PM TWO 15TH-CENTURY OVERDRESSES (2 hours) Includes two lectures: Will the Real Sideless Surcote Please Stand Up? Common wisdom holds that the sideless surcote was a popular female fashion of the late 14th century and much of the 15th century in England, France, and Flanders. Looking closely at the artwork that portrays this fashion, though, we can trace several distinct stages in the development and use of the style and its implications for the wearer. A slide lecture will show how to distinguish between the surcote's uses as a real garment and as a symbolic device in artwork, with special attention to practical issues of construction. The 15th-Century V-Neck Gown The so-called "Burgundian" style that dominates much of 15th-century fashion in Western Europe is in fact two separate styles, which have distinctive characteristics and are apparently constructed in two completely different ways. An examination of artwork over the course of the century demonstrates the differences and provides clues as to how the two styles developed and the ways in which they may have been made. BREAK 4:30 PM When Medieval Meets Victorian: The Roots of Modern Costume Sources (1.5 hours) Too often, today's costume sources present "facts" about medieval and Renaissance costume that are actually misinterpretations dating from the Victorian era. This lecture traces the development of modern costume scholarship and examines the motives and methods of 19th-century costume historians. Armed with this information, 21st-century costumers can learn how to recognize -- and compensate for -- Victorian influence in current sources. At the speaker's request, no audio or video taping of the lectures will be permitted. The location is MIT Room: 4-231. For a map of MIT with the building highlighted, see: http://whereis.mit.edu/bin/map?locate=bldg_4 This is not an SCA event. Cost is $25.00 for those who pre-register. Cost at the door will be $40.00, but it is unlikely that any last minute space will be available, as attendance is limited to 60. A few work-study slots will be available for people who can help but can't afford to pay. Make the check out to Laura Dickerson and mail to 3 Audubon Road Lexington, MA 02421 questions? email lauradi@erols.com http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[17,330]CSuX: 1780s gown terminology question Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1780s gown terminology question From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:30:00 EDT In a message dated 6/13/03 9:35:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alice@wonderland.com writes: > Could you provide some links > to illustrate your terms, or page numbers from the Kyoto book or > something? > I'm sorry....but now I'm traveling and don't have my books in front of me. I'm on other peoples' computers. Does a more Internet savvy person [who's at home....in familiar surroundings] have some on line pics that could help? h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [25,331]CSuX: fabric shopping in nc? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC? From: Robin Netherton Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:53:35 -0500 (CDT) Someone wrote: > > > I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was > > > wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area. > > > > Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want > > upholstery fabric. > > > > Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 south > > near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of stuff. > > Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some good > > laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. Some nice > > wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out. Isn't Mulberry Silks around that area? Nice small fabric store, good quality, good service ... or at least that was the case 10 years ago. I'd hate to find out it's gone out of business. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [37,332]CSuX: fabric shopping in nc? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric Shopping in NC? From: Heather Meadows Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 09:44:38 -0700 It's in Carrboro, which is about an hour away from Greensboro, without traffic. On Saturday, June 14, 2003, at 07:53 AM, Robin Netherton wrote: > > Someone wrote: > >>>> I'll be visiting a friend in Greensboro, North Carolina soon and was >>>> wondering if anyone knew of any good fabric stores in the area. >>> >>> Greensboro only has a Hancock Fabrics and a Jo Ann's. Unless you want >>> upholstery fabric. >>> >>> Mary Jo's is in Gastonia...which is a couple of hours away down I-85 >>> south >>> near Charlotte....but worth the trip. It's a big store with lots of >>> stuff. >>> Some silk taffetas but as usual lots of dupioni. But there are some >>> good >>> laces and some lovely synthetics in the fancy dress stuffs dept. >>> Some nice >>> wools too. The store is not seasonal so all this stuff should be out. > > Isn't Mulberry Silks around that area? Nice small fabric store, good > quality, good service ... or at least that was the case 10 years ago. > I'd > hate to find out it's gone out of business. > > --Robin > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [12,333]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:20:45 -0700 (PDT) Does anybody know when piping *did* show up? Any pictures online would be great if you can point to them... Thanks! Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [46,334]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:51:41 -0400 On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote: > Does anybody know when piping *did* show up? Any pictures online would be > great if you can point to them... You'll all *love* this.... For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory & Victor H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000). The book describes, in great detail, a number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which have been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near northwestern China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E. The book has fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn by the mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book). One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers. The group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E. and about 600 B.C.E. His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather like a karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color. The interesting part is that, along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors describe as *piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos! (This piping is a bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer red of the coat itself.) More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at the upper arms. It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on the edges of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat sure look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the garment itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure.... Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the book is only out in hardcover. It costs $50.00 US. But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one tribe in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. .... -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kim baird [85,335]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: "Kim Baird" Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 23:16:03 -0500 Mallory and Mair's book is fascinating, but if it's the textiles that interest you, try Elizabeth Barber's The Mummies of Urumchi, W. W. Norton and Co. This book is primarily about the textiles, and yes, the clothing is piped. Barber examined it in person. Great book. Kim -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote: > Does anybody know when piping *did* show up? Any pictures online would be > great if you can point to them... You'll all *love* this.... For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory & Victor H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000). The book describes, in great detail, a number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which have been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near northwestern China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E. The book has fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn by the mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book). One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers. The group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E. and about 600 B.C.E. His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather like a karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color. The interesting part is that, along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors describe as *piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos! (This piping is a bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer red of the coat itself.) More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at the upper arms. It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on the edges of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat sure look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the garment itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure.... Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the book is only out in hardcover. It costs $50.00 US. But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one tribe in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. .... -- Cathy Raymond "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume chris laning [65,336]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question Subject: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question From: Chris Laning Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:38:27 -0700 At 10:01 AM -0400 6/13/03, LoreleiMorte@aol.com wrote: >I'm working on the shirt for my Helena of Snakenborg dress project and I'm >stumped. I'm a novice at embroidery but I'm usually able to do ok, except for >long-n-short stitch (I plan on spend a day witha frame, some linen scrap and a >whole lotta shapes, trying fill 'em in with long-n-short). I know I want to do >fly stitch on my leaves for the shirt motif, and stem for the stems (duh!), >french knots for the rose centers, but the rose leaves are giving me issues. I >really like the look of stem or split stitch circling aroind in a >petal, I have >a feeeling that long-n-short was used for the original. Any embroidery >junkies out there got any advice? Long-and-short stitch was indeed used in Elizabethan embroidery, but it doesn't seem to be quite as common then as it became 50 to 100 years later (when it was used for practically everything). Other stitches used for Elizabethan fillings include satin stitch (in small areas), detached buttonhole stitch and its variations which were _very_ common, and ladder stitch, which is essentially a very wide, short chain stitch used as a filling, with its edges following the edge of whatever you're filling (like a leaf or petal). Split stitch isn't often mentioned, but it was certainly still known at this time, though because it's so labor-intensive I would expect to see it on big formal expensive stuff rather than on a shirt or smock. > I also can't decide what thread to use..crewel >wool seems too heavy for the 5.7 oz linen shirt, silk is out of the >middle class >margins I'm using for the project, I don't have the time to wait for linen >thread to get shipped to me, I have buttloads of cotton floss and a >little pearl >cotton (I do have several skeins of poppy red silk floss...would a middle >class girl be able to afford/get away with a little silk in her >embroidery?) What >should I use to embroider with? How many strands? I'm kinda limited to JOAnn's >and Hobby Lobby right now. Thanks! As I understand it, silk thread was probably the most common thread used for black or colored embroidery. My impression is that if you could afford to embroider something at all, you could probably afford the silk thread to embroider it with. It was expensive, but not impossibly expensive: a well-to-do middle-class person could certainly afford to embroider a few garments at least, but you'd be very careful of your thread so as not to waste any. Helena's shirt in the portrait (if that is indeed who she is) was probably the only shirt she had that was this heavily embroidered -- and of course she wore her best clothes to have her portrait painted. I'd advise going with silk if you can get it. OTOH, If this needs to be a garment that is washed often, and if you have good-quality cotton embroidery floss (DMC or Anchor, not the dime-store kind) feel free to use 1 or 2 strands of cotton instead. -- O Chris Laning | + Davis, California h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[13,337]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question update Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question UPDATE From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:22:58 EDT Thank you guys! All of your suggestions and advice made my life much, much easier... I started the embroidery last night, here's the first of my efforts: http://members.aol.com/loreleimorte/helena7.html It's my first crewel-ish embroidery, so be gentle, k? :) -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [114,338]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:51:27 -0700 I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'. Anyone else know of its use a little later? I suppose one could use the logic that if the Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it could be one of those 'givens'. Would be nice to see some documentation on it though.... Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Kim Baird ~Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:16 PM ~To: 'Historical Costume' ~Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary ~ ~Mallory and Mair's book is fascinating, but if it's the textiles that ~interest you, try Elizabeth Barber's The Mummies of Urumchi, W. W. ~Norton and Co. This book is primarily about the textiles, and yes, the ~clothing is piped. Barber examined it in person. ~ ~Great book. ~ ~Kim ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] ~On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond ~Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2003 9:52 PM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary ~ ~On Saturday 14 June 2003 10:20 pm, dch@inreach.com wrote: ~> Does anybody know when piping *did* show up? Any pictures online ~would be ~> great if you can point to them... ~ ~You'll all *love* this.... ~ ~For Christmas, I got a copy of "The Tarim Mummies" (by J.P. Mallory & ~Victor ~H. Mair, pub. Thames & Hudson, 2000). The book describes, in great ~detail, a ~number of extremely well-preserved, Caucasian, mummified bodies which ~have ~been discovered in the Tarim Basin (i.e., Central Asia near northwestern ~ ~China) between, roughly, 1800 B.C.E. and 250 B.C.E. The book has ~fair-to-middling pictures (some in color) describes the clothing worn by ~the ~mummies in some detail (which is why I wanted the book). ~ ~One of the mummies has been nicknamed "Ur-David" by the researchers. ~The ~group he was found with is estimated to date from between 1000 B.C.E. ~and ~about 600 B.C.E. His primary garment is a wrapped coat, shaped rather ~like a ~karate gi or a bathrobe, in a dark red color. The interesting part is ~that, ~along the front edges the coat is finished with what the authors ~describe as ~*piping*--and it sure looks like piping in the photos! (This piping is ~a ~bright orangish-red, which contrasts sharply with the much darker bluer ~red ~of the coat itself.) More of the "piping" appears on the sleeves at the ~ ~upper arms. ~ ~It is conceivable, of course, that this stuff is merely cord sewn on the ~edges ~of the coat and the body of the sleeves, though the edges of the coat ~sure ~look as though they've been piped--but one would need to see the garment ~ ~itself, or perhaps an extreme close up of the garment, to be sure.... ~ ~Alas, I could not find a URL to a picture of Ur David online, and the ~book is ~only out in hardcover. It costs $50.00 US. ~ ~But if the authors are correct and the stuff *is* piping, at least one ~tribe ~in Central Asia was using piping around 1000 B.C.E. .... ~ ~ ~-- ~Cathy Raymond ~ ~"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." ~Albert Einstein ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [16,339]CSuX: floral dupioni s Subject: [h-cost] Floral Dupioni's From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:29:37 -0700 In an online quest for bottle green dupioni, I came across this site http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm# I thought those of you doing later stuff (late 1600's and on) might be interested in the couple of floral dupionis they had available. I especially like the pink and green one. "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [29,340]CSuX: floral dupioni s Subject: [h-cost] RE: Floral Dupioni's From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 09:32:07 -0700 Oh, and their stripes and brocades are pretty cool too. They have 'silk' velvet, but I have written to find out if it is 100% silk-my guess is, not, because of the price. "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:30 AM To: H-Costume@Indra. Com (h-costume@indra.com) Subject: Floral Dupioni's In an online quest for bottle green dupioni, I came across this site http://www.hyenaproductions.com/store+dupioni+stripes+plaids2.htm# I thought those of you doing later stuff (late 1600's and on) might be interested in the couple of floral dupionis they had available. I especially like the pink and green one. "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume brenda [37,341]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Brenda Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:33:28 -0400 "Saragrace Knauf" wrote: >In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think >the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are >some neat ones on the site. >http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm Don't know about those bumps, but that is one really cool site. (For those of you who managed to miss it, the main page/page d'acceuil is "Gastronome Médiévale" (Medieval Gastronomy) and it's all about food and how it integrated into Medieval life.) Lots of images and lots of info. (Sg: did this come from one of the SCA cooking lists? If not, it should probably be forwarded on...) Under "Food and Medicine", the site discusses how diet was prescribed based on one's personal balance of humors, and how people treated disease with diet by trying to rebalance those humors. Under "Imagination and Food", there are mentions of fantastical "foods" listed in a reading primer, the arguments in favor of/against cooked and raw foods, the Great Chain of Being (which described what foods were required for what social classes), and some fantastical ideas of where spices come from ("Barthélemy the English rather imagined that one had to look for cinnamon in the nest of the Phoenix...")... BTW, I think I'm getting about 75% of the information. But I'm also not taking the time to look up the words I'm unfamiliar with... Brenda webwarren@earthlink.net h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume maryann jones [11,342]CSuX: linen velvet Subject: [h-cost] linen velvet From: MaryAnn Jones Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:21:45 -0700 I bought some linen velvet at a good price. (okay, it was still more than I have ever spent for a fabric) and I am going to make some Elizabethans out of it. The question is... can I wash it? and how, if I can? In the washing machine? thanks, maryann h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [19,343]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:30:59 -0400 On Sunday 15 June 2003 11:51 am, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'. Anyone else know of its > use a little later? Wish I did. But the only other usages I know of outside the Tarim example) are 19th c. Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather rose jones [27,344]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: Heather Rose Jones Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 11:42:13 -0700 At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote: >I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'. Anyone else know of its >use a little later? I suppose one could use the logic that if the >Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it >could be one of those 'givens'. Would be nice to see some >documentation on it though.... The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty. Take tattoos, for instance. You've got examples of tattoos in Europe in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on, but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a continuous tradition. I'd be highly suspicious of any chain of logic that takes two highly separated time-points at which we have evidence for something, and then proposes continuous use between the two points. Heather -- ***** Heather Rose Jones hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ***** h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [57,345]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:02:38 -0700 I don't think anyone serious about re-creating a historic garment would try to use that logic as proof of anything. On the other hand there is clearly evident that our capacity for ingenuity isn't modern....as my professional historian friend says: "If you thought of it, they probably did too" So when it comes to producing something that allows a man to fly, they may not have had the technology, but they thought of it. Piping is probably something that even 'they' could have handled. It is interesting that you bring up the Iceman though. They are conjecturing that the tattoos were also acupuncture points. So here is a skill that Europeans had at one time and 'lost'. Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Heather Rose Jones ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 11:42 AM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: RE: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary ~ ~At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote: ~>I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'. Anyone else know of its ~>use a little later? I suppose one could use the logic that if the ~>Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it ~>could be one of those 'givens'. Would be nice to see some ~>documentation on it though.... ~ ~The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty. ~Take tattoos, for instance. You've got examples of tattoos in Europe ~in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on, ~but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos ~was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a ~continuous tradition. I'd be highly suspicious of any chain of logic ~that takes two highly separated time-points at which we have evidence ~for something, and then proposes continuous use between the two ~points. ~ ~Heather ~-- ~***** ~Heather Rose Jones ~hrjones@socrates.berkeley.edu ~***** ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [63,346]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:15:33 -0700 This is a common misconception. Just because a website makes a claim doesn't make it true. We have worked with this company before. Their price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part of this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern. But you as the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because we offer wholesale prices to the public. E-lexus is strictly a retailer. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM To: 'Hyena' Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Huh, that isn't true. Here is some: http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=Gre nadine I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway. Sg -----Original Message----- From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM To: 'Saragrace Knauf' Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all a mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80% rayon. Hope this helps! Delight Underwood HYENA http://www.hyenaproductions.com -----Original Message----- From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM To: info@hyenaproductions.com Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Saragrace "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [89,347]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:21:16 -0700 Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I forgot to ask my question! I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling pure silk velvet on their site. They then are telling me there is no such thing. So have any of you actually put your hands on pure silk velvet? Or have we all been beign duped by the folks who say they are weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I doubt this, but....) Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~This is a common misconception. Just because a website makes a claim ~doesn't make it true. We have worked with this company before. Their ~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part of ~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern. But you as ~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower ~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because we ~offer wholesale prices to the public. E-lexus is strictly a retailer. ~ ~ ~Thanks again. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~-----Original Message----- ~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM ~To: 'Hyena' ~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~Huh, that isn't true. Here is some: ~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=Gr e ~nadine ~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway. ~ ~Sg ~ ~-----Original Message----- ~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net] ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM ~To: 'Saragrace Knauf' ~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all a ~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80% ~rayon. ~Hope this helps! ~ ~Delight Underwood ~HYENA ~http://www.hyenaproductions.com ~ ~ ~ ~-----Original Message----- ~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM ~To: info@hyenaproductions.com ~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~Saragrace ~ ~ ~ ~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" ~Isocrates ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [110,348]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:23:28 -0700 Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:21 PM ~To: 'Historical Costume' ~Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~ ~Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I forgot to ask my ~question! ~ ~I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling pure silk ~velvet on their site. They then are telling me there is no such thing. So have any of ~you actually put your hands on pure silk velvet? Or have we all been beign duped ~by the folks who say they are weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I doubt this, ~but....) ~ ~Sg ~ ~~-----Original Message----- ~~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM ~~To: h-costume@indra.com ~~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~~ ~~This is a common misconception. Just because a website makes a claim ~~doesn't make it true. We have worked with this company before. Their ~~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part of ~~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern. But you as ~~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower ~~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because we ~~offer wholesale prices to the public. E-lexus is strictly a retailer. ~~ ~~ ~~Thanks again. ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~-----Original Message----- ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM ~~To: 'Hyena' ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~~ ~~Huh, that isn't true. Here is some: ~~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=G re ~~nadine ~~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway. ~~ ~~Sg ~~ ~~-----Original Message----- ~~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net] ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM ~~To: 'Saragrace Knauf' ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~~ ~~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all a ~~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80% ~~rayon. ~~Hope this helps! ~~ ~~Delight Underwood ~~HYENA ~~http://www.hyenaproductions.com ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~-----Original Message----- ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM ~~To: info@hyenaproductions.com ~~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~~ ~~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? ~~ ~~Saragrace ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" ~~Isocrates ~~ ~~h-costume mailing list ~~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [33,349]CSuX: helena of snakenborg embroidery question update Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: Helena of Snakenborg Embroidery Question UPDATE From: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:41:36 +0200 Hello Lorelei. Congratulations, you did very well. It is very very difficult to embroider that tecknique on linen, i think it is very nice. Now have fun with the shirt, and remember to post pictures two :-) Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Thank you guys! All of your suggestions and advice made my life much, much > easier... I started the embroidery last night, here's the first of my > > It's my first crewel-ish embroidery, so be gentle, k? :) > > -Sarra Wryght > Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html > Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume lavolta press [44,350]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap From: Lavolta Press Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 12:42:57 -0700 It is true that most of the modern silk velvet is mostly rayon. I have handled a lot of chiffon silk velvet from the 1920s and thereabouts, and a lot of heavier Edwardian and Victorian silk velvet. Antique silk velvet tends to be less shiny than modern rayon velvet. It does have a very nice hand, but the rayon isn't bad. The silk base/rayon pile modern velvet is often actually a pretty good approximation of 1920s-ish chiffon velvet. The all-rayon velvets I've seen--the somewhat heavier velvets with a rayon back as well as pile--tend to be not only shinier but slipperier to sew than Victorian/Edwardian velvets. For a modern approximation of those, I'd lean to a 100% cotton velvet. BTW, rayon can be made to be less shiny, it's just that some velvet manufacturers don't seem to do it. I have also seen modern 100% silk upholstery weight silk velvet at the Silk Trading Company. I have never seen modern clothing weight velvet (you might be able to use upholstery weight velvet for heavy coats, but I trust people know what I mean). I am dubious of the ebay sellers who claim to carry 100% silk velvet. As silk prices have really come down in the last few years, I also see no reason why silk velvet is not more available. Except, it isn't. BTW, I got my two silk brocade swatches from Hyena. They do seem to be pure silk and they are clothing (not upholstery) weight. Fran At 12:23 PM 6/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk >velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? Lavolta Press Books on Historic Costuming http://www.lavoltapress.com Historic and Vintage Dance http://www.lavoltapress.com/dance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume janet davis [18,351]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: "Janet Davis" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 15:44:57 -0400 > Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk > velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? > Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon. But someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [145,352]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:52:28 +0200 Hi Saragrace, You know, i think it is the same matter as to the fine linens. Why dont any manufacture fine linen thread for lace? Because there are not enough costumers for it! Bobbin lacers would not pay the high price it would cost, and therefore the manufacturers stopped making it. Now all bobbin lacers makes the fine point ground laces with gassed cotton thread. Remember it is "money makes the world go arround" I saw a picture of the royal family wearing some velvet cloaks, for a kind of seremonial occation, Oxford Univercity or something, and it looked like real silk velvet, but i dont know if there is a place where they weave such a thing occationally for the royalty! If you were going to make a costume in silk velvet, it would cost you a farm! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ----- Original Message ----- > Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk > velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? > > "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" > Isocrates > > > ~-----Original Message----- > ~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > ~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:21 PM > ~To: 'Historical Costume' > ~Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap > rayon? > ~ > ~Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally got it through I > forgot to ask my > ~question! > ~ > ~I have been having this exchange with someone saying they are selling > pure silk > ~velvet on their site. They then are telling me there is no such thing. > So have any of > ~you actually put your hands on pure silk velvet? Or have we all been > beign duped > ~by the folks who say they are weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I > doubt this, > ~but....) > ~ > ~Sg > ~ > ~~-----Original Message----- > ~~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] > On > ~~Behalf Of Saragrace Knauf > ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 12:16 PM > ~~To: h-costume@indra.com > ~~Subject: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap > rayon? > ~~ > ~~This is a common misconception. Just because a website makes a claim > ~~doesn't make it true. We have worked with this company before. Their > ~~price is high on this not because it is 100% silk in the velvet part > of > ~~this pattern - but because it is a cutout brocade pattern. But you as > ~~the consumer have to make your own judgements. Our prices are lower > ~~because 1) we are offering a solid basic silk velvet and also because > we > ~~offer wholesale prices to the public. E-lexus is strictly a retailer. > ~~ > ~~ > ~~Thanks again. > ~~ > ~~ > ~~ > ~~ > ~~-----Original Message----- > ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 10:02 AM > ~~To: 'Hyena' > ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? > ~~ > ~~Huh, that isn't true. Here is some: > ~~http://www.e-luxus-agnesalauzet.com/velours_us/pres/frm_pres.asp?col=G > re > ~~nadine > ~~I didn't think yours was because of the price, but thanks anyway. > ~~ > ~~Sg > ~~ > ~~-----Original Message----- > ~~From: Hyena [mailto:hyena@sbcglobal.net] > ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:47 AM > ~~To: 'Saragrace Knauf' > ~~Subject: RE: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? > ~~ > ~~Good morning - there is no such thing as 100% silk velvet - it is all > a > ~~mix and ours is the highest silk content available at 20% silk, 80% > ~~rayon. > ~~Hope this helps! > ~~ > ~~Delight Underwood > ~~HYENA > ~~http://www.hyenaproductions.com > ~~ > ~~ > ~~ > ~~-----Original Message----- > ~~From: Saragrace Knauf [mailto:saragrace@earthlink.net] > ~~Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 9:31 AM > ~~To: info@hyenaproductions.com > ~~Subject: Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? > ~~ > ~~Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? > ~~ > ~~Saragrace > ~~ > ~~ > ~~ > ~~"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" > ~~Isocrates > ~~ > ~~h-costume mailing list > ~~h-costume@mail.indra.com > ~~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume bjarne og leif drews [22,353]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: [h-cost] silk velvet From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 21:55:16 +0200 Hi. When i was at the ball in Bath, Sir James was wearing a very nice costume made in fake silk velvet. It was sooooooooo beautifull and it looked very like the real thing. So rayon velvet, can be very beautifull two! Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [24,354]CSuX: linen velvet Subject: Re: [h-cost] linen velvet From: Drea Leed Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:04:41 -0400 (EDT) I've seen linen velvet washed; it made the fabric a bit rougher, and more like upholstery velvet, than the shiny and flat unwashed linen velvet. This was velvet with a linen backing and rayon nap. Is the nap of your fabric linen or rayon? Drea On Sun, 15 Jun 2003, MaryAnn Jones wrote: > I bought some linen velvet at a good price. (okay, it was still more than > I have ever spent for a fabric) and I am going to make some Elizabethans > out of it. The question is... can I wash it? and how, if I can? In the > washing machine? > > thanks, maryann > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [54,355]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:17:32 -0700 (PDT) --- Saragrace Knauf wrote: > Duh, I kept getting this bounced and when I finally > got it through I > forgot to ask my question! > > I have been having this exchange with someone saying > they are selling > pure silk velvet on their site. They then are > telling me there is no > such thing. So have any of you actually put your > hands on pure silk > velvet? Or have we all been beign duped by the > folks who say they are > weaving pure silk velvet? (Some how I doubt this, > but....) > > Sg > Most of what I've been able to examine has been silk velvet ribbon, and 1 cloak of silk upholstery-weight velvet. As Fran said, it's more similar to very good cotton velvet than modern rayon velvet. I don't care for the current silk/rayon velvet because it's very limp. I'm also cheap, so if I was going to buy silk/rayon velvet, I'd probably order it from Silk Connection (aka Rupert Gibbon & Spider), as it's less than 1/2 the price that Hyena is charging, and only 2% less silk. It only comes in 2 colors (black and white), but is easily dyed. Speaking of rayon velvet... I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple of creases), and sell it on eBay? Thanks! Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [18,356]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: RE: [h-cost] silk velvet From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 14:02:48 -0700 I agree that the rayon/silk is beautiful. I was just surprised by the conviction this person had that there was no such thing as 100% silk velvet. (I also thought it was interesting that they said not to believe it just because it was advertised as such on the internet-maybe because they advertise theirs as being pure silk when it isn't???) I was also surprised that they thought they were offering it at such a good price....as someone else pointed out you can get it un-dyed for $11.00 yard and dyed for as little as $17.00 yard. Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume janet davis [11,357]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Janet Davis" Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:15 -0400 I know I wouldn't submit my picture to this site http://www.amiperiodornot.com/ but it is a somewhat amusing concept. Unfortunately, those who need a negative answer to this question haven't been submitting either :-) Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [39,358]CSuX: piping was:tunic diary Subject: Re: [h-cost] Piping was:Tunic Diary From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:19:17 -0400 On Sunday 15 June 2003 02:42 pm, Heather Rose Jones wrote: > At 8:51 AM -0700 6/15/03, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > >I wonder if it was one of those 'lost arts'. Anyone else know of its > >use a little later? I suppose one could use the logic that if the > >Egyptians used it and we see it later on in the Renaissance then it > >could be one of those 'givens'. Would be nice to see some > >documentation on it though.... > > The problem is that that kind of logic can be shown to be faulty. > Take tattoos, for instance. You've got examples of tattoos in Europe > in the Stone Age (the Iceman) and from around the 19th century on, > but it's pretty easily demonstrable that the modern fad for tattoos > was imported from other parts of the world and not part of a > continuous tradition. The modern "fad" is not part of any Western tradition, but knowledge of tattooing in the West is old. I have found a book of essays, called "Written on the Body: The Tattoo in European and American History" (Jane Caplan, ed. Princeton University Press 2000). The essays indicate that, in classical Rome, tattooing was reserved for criminals and other outcasts, and later uses of tattooing in the West followed this tradition until the discovery of tattooing out in the South Pacific islands aroused new interest in the practice. But this illustrates that Heather is right; just because a technology for dress or adornment exists in a particular period doesn't mean it was either commonly known or used. -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [17,359]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:23:47 -0500 At 12:23 PM 6/15/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk >velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? > >"The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" >Isocrates Yes, there is silk velvet. Jack Lenor Larson, does an entire upholstery line of silk velvet and it is the yummiest stuff! Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume danielle nunn-weinberg [24,360]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:25:55 -0500 At 03:44 PM 6/15/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Subject: RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap >rayon? > > > Oh and the second half of the question is, if there is no real pure silk > > velvet, why not? Surely it can be made?? > > >Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon. But >someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of. > >Janet There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used in either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my head I can't remember where the reference is... Cheers, Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume janet davis [25,361]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Janet Davis" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:44:15 +1000 Of course it all depends on the people who are judging, and what they know about what they're looking at. I'm very tempted to put in pictures of a couple of my latest creations. It is indeed a fun concept. Glenda. ----- Original Message ----- > I know I wouldn't submit my picture to this site http://www.amiperiodornot.com/ but it is a somewhat amusing concept. Unfortunately, those who need a negative answer to this question haven't been submitting either :-) > > Janet > > Janet Davis > Castle Furnishings > http://www.medievalbookstore.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume maryann jones [12,362]CSuX: h-costume digest, vol 2, issue 329 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 329 From: MaryAnn Jones Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:31:27 -0700 At 02:07 PM 6/15/2003 -0600, you wrote: >This was velvet with a linen backing and rayon nap. Is the nap of your >fabric linen or rayon? I am not sure if I responded to this. I think that it is part cotton. I know that there is no rayon. I am going to do a test piece, because I do not want to lose the nice shiny flat look. thanks, maryann h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume christine robb [27,363]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Christine Robb Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 23:15:59 -0400 On Sun, Jun 15, 2003 at 12:01:03PM -0600, Brenda wrote: > "Saragrace Knauf" wrote: > > >In poking around the internet I came across this picture. I don't think > >the things in question have anything to do with costume, but there are > >some neat ones on the site. > >http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/grands/090.htm > > Don't know about those bumps, but that is one really cool site. (For those > of you who managed to miss it, the main page/page d'acceuil is > "Gastronome M?di?vale" > (Medieval Gastronomy) and it's all about food and how it integrated into > Medieval life.) Lots of images and lots of info. There is a limited version of it in English as well, at : http://expositions.bnf.fr/gastro/enimages/anglais/index.htm And thank you all for all your tips about cleaning wool a while back. Christine ECD in TO http://www.interlog.com/~cedar h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume rachel [16,364]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Rachel" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:13:48 +0100 Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best quote I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment at least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see anything less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article. If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on the details. Rachel h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume =?iso-8859-1?q?n=20kipar?= [23,365]CSuX:dawn s velvet, is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is Subject: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:01:18 +0100 (BST) --- Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green > rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or > shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple > of creases), and sell it on eBay? What a shame you are on another continent! I just said to Teddy that I am looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic teagown made with the La Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it off you, but postage is too much. :-( Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume rachel [26,366]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Rachel" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 06:07:56 -0700 I'd like the details Rachel. Not that I'm ordering any, but this sort of info is handy to have up one's sleeve. Thanks, Lisa ----- Original Message ----- > Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order > basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best quote > I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT > and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment at > least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see anything > less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article. > If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on > the details. > > Rachel > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [16,367]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:25:04 +0200 Hi, Yes it is finished!!!!! http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) . Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine rowberd (kirrily robert) [14,368]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:24:43 -0400 I'm the person responsible for that website. Someone suggested it to me on Friday and I just had to do it! I was wondering how long it would take to show up here :) Anyway, I hope you find it entertaining. Yours, Kirrily (SCA: Katherine Rowberd) h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume loreleimorte@aol.com[17,369]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: LoreleiMorte@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:26:28 EDT In a message dated 6/16/2003 9:23:04 AM Central Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > Yes it is finished!!!!! > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > OH MY GOD! That is gorgeous! Jen needs to do a Festive Attyre thing on you! Holy Sh** that is beautiful! -Sarra Wryght Elizabethan Dress Journals: http://hometown.aol.com/loreleimorte/index.html Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/loreleisedai/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume seamstrix@juno.com[14,370]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: seamstrix@juno.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:12:35 -0500 Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see what the good pictures look like! Well done! Karen The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [58,371]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: RE: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:00:58 -0700 Me too please!! Sg "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Lisa Sinervo ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:08 AM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet ~ ~I'd like the details Rachel. Not that I'm ordering any, but this sort of ~info is handy to have up one's sleeve. ~ ~Thanks, ~ ~Lisa ~ ~----- Original Message ----- ~From: "Rachel" ~To: ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 12:13 AM ~Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet ~ ~ ~> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order ~> basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best quote ~> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT ~> and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment at ~> least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see anything ~> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article. ~> If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on ~> the details. ~> ~> Rachel ~> ~> ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [36,372]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:04:48 -0700 I think it is a great idea. I wonder if you could work up some criteria for people to go by? Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or perhaps a couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up what they go by....looking forward to seeing how it develops! "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert) ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:25 AM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts ~ ~I'm the person responsible for that website. Someone suggested it to me ~on Friday and I just had to do it! I was wondering how long it would ~take to show up here :) ~ ~Anyway, I hope you find it entertaining. ~ ~Yours, ~ ~Kirrily ~(SCA: Katherine Rowberd) ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [33,373]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: RE: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:06:30 -0700 I had to LOL at myself. I found myself holding my breath while I waited for the images to load! It looks great. What is it like to wear it? Does it feel funny or does it shift around much? The whole ensemble looks great. Nice work! Sg ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:13 AM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! ~ ~Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less ~than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see ~what the good pictures look like! Well done! ~ ~ ~Karen ~ ~The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! ~Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ~Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [12,374]CSuX: la mode bagatelle Subject: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:10:21 -0700 Aren't those great patterns! I don't care much for the Regency style, but I have the Artistic Reform Tea gown. http://lamodebagatelle.com/art.htm I want to make it for my cousin who has this lovely 'plantation' in the south... h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [22,375]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: "Deredere Galbraith" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:10:25 -0400 Deredere, it's exquisite. It really is a masterpiece. Dianne ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, > > Yes it is finished!!!!! > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > > Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) . > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume dawn jacobson [38,376]CSuX:dawn s velvet, is your silk velvet 100% velvet or Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or From: Dawn Jacobson Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:24:15 -0700 (PDT) --- N Kipar wrote: > --- Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > > I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark > green > > rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? > Or > > shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a > couple > > of creases), and sell it on eBay? > > What a shame you are on another continent! I just > said to Teddy that I am > looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic > teagown made with the La > Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it > off you, but postage is too > much. :-( > > Nicole After seeing the patterns, can I steal your idea? I'm thinking maybe cream-colored silk with the dark green velvet... Dawn ===== Dawn Jacobson Vallejo, CA, USA Clothes are just the costumes we wear every day. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [61,377]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:21:42 +0200 Hi, It is hot!!! Perfectly for cold winters :-) . I can't move my head a lot. It is a lot cooler and better to wear when I wear it open. Because I only wore it to make the pictures I don't know if it will get uncomfertable. I put the dress on by my self witch is almost impossible to do. It didn't fit right. I think I made the partlet a too long in the back. Many of the buttons are under my dress. It feals a bit like chainmail Because it is so heavy. But it stay's well on the schoulders. I am happy you like it :-) :-) Greetings, Deredere Saragrace Knauf wrote: >I had to LOL at myself. I found myself holding my breath while I waited >for the images to load! It looks great. What is it like to wear it? >Does it feel funny or does it shift around much? The whole ensemble >looks great. Nice work! > >Sg > >~-----Original Message----- >~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] >On >~Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com >~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 6:13 AM >~To: h-costume@indra.com >~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! >~ >~Your partlet is fabulous! The dress is lovely as well. Even in the less >~than perfect pictures, the outfit looks terrific. I can't wait to see >~what the good pictures look like! Well done! >~ >~ >~Karen >~ >~The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >~Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! >~Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! >~h-costume mailing list >~h-costume@mail.indra.com >~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume albertcat@aol.com[27,378]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: AlbertCat@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:33:19 EDT In a message dated 6/16/2003 10:23:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, triade@kabelfoon.nl writes: > Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) . > Yummy! Look, If you're all alone and need a picture, here's what you do. Surely you have a self timer on the camera. Position the camera so it's steady on a table or, if it needs to be higher, a stack of books or something. Just so it won't move. Put a chair or lamp of something where you're gonna stand and look through the camera to get it positioned and focused. Now a cable to trip the shudder will be helpful here, but you don't need one. Carefully trip the shudder and use the 10 seconds you usually have with a self timer to get into place. It's longer than you think. Smile. CLICK! I don't mean to treat you like an idiot or anything, but you'd be surprised at how many people don't think to do this kind of thing. They think "picture=snapshot" and forget that a long, complicated set up is where a lot of great photos come from. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [40,379]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:57:53 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > I think it is a great idea. I wonder if you could work up some > criteria for people to go by? Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or > perhaps a couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up > what they go by....looking forward to seeing how it develops! Ah, but that would spoil it ;-) I get the impression that the site is really about, well, impressions -- that is, would the average SCA member, seeing you at an event, get a "period" feel from your visual look? Do you contribute to the period atmosphere on a gut level, for people who may not be "educated" enough to understand the details and decisions of your clothing? That's very different from situations where you provide documentation and explain the details and reasons for what you've done, which is what happens in competitions, classes, and formal displays. Those activities can educate the group members and raise standards over the long run, of course. The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the community level of understanding. A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants' experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [14,380]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:41:02 -0700 Good point, I had not thought of it that way! Sg ~ ~Ah, but that would spoil it ;-) [.............................." h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume rachel [27,381]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Rachel" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:27:18 -0400 My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics (www.designerfabrics.to), carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's really narrow fabric). Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw around... -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- > Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to order > basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best quote > I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus VAT > and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment at > least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see anything > less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine article. > If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass on > the details. > > Rachel > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [52,382]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: Heather Meadows Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:48:14 -0700 What category is it under? or is it not on the website? I don't see it under silks or velvets. On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Herself-the-Elf wrote: > My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics > (www.designerfabrics.to), > carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's > really > narrow fabric). Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw > around... > > -- Maral > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rachel" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:13 AM > Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet > > >> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to >> order >> basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best >> quote >> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus >> VAT >> and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment >> at >> least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see >> anything >> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine >> article. >> If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass >> on >> the details. >> >> Rachel >> >> >> > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catpurson@juno.com[8,383]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: catpurson@juno.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:46:45 -0400 Fantastic. The whole gown and partlet are beautiful!!! Lalah Never give up, Never surrender h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[21,384]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:00:25 EDT In a message dated 6/16/03 11:40:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > Ah, but that would spoil it ;-) I'm going to chirp in and say that Robin's probably right- the site's very funny and (dare I say it?) "useful" as is. Especially since I remember "amihotornot.com". By the way, Robin.... how would you feel about coming and speaking at Carnegie Mellon sometime in the fall? We've got an SCA chapter, and I'm *dying* to hear the two lectures that I missed at CostumeCon. Especially since I've been wanting to make a sideless surcoat and undergown. Pittsburgh is a central location, too! (Well, no. Not really. I'm just trying to be persuasive. Did it work?) Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume heather meadows [61,385]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Heather Meadows" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:05:47 -0400 I don't think they have everything on the website...I've seen the velvet in their store, though, so if you email them they can probably help. -- Maral ----- Original Message ----- > What category is it under? or is it not on the website? > > I don't see it under silks or velvets. > > > On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 10:27 AM, Herself-the-Elf wrote: > > > My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics > > (www.designerfabrics.to), > > carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's > > really > > narrow fabric). Alas....if only I had that kind of cash to throw > > around... > > > > -- Maral > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rachel" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:13 AM > > Subject: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet > > > > > >> Silk velvet is indeed still available although only on a weave to > >> order > >> basis. I can get hold of some but it is very expensive. The best > >> quote > >> I have got is actually from silk handweavers at £205 per metre plus > >> VAT > >> and shipping. The won't do any less than a metre. So for the moment > >> at > >> least it is out of most peoples pockets. Basically if you see > >> anything > >> less than about £100 per metre it is unlikely to be the genuine > >> article. > >> If anyone wants to order some from my source I will be happy to pass > >> on > >> the details. > >> > >> Rachel > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [26,386]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:50:52 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > By the way, Robin.... how would you feel about coming and speaking at > Carnegie Mellon sometime in the fall? We've got an SCA chapter, and > I'm *dying* to hear the two lectures that I missed at CostumeCon. > Especially since I've been wanting to make a sideless surcoat and > undergown. Pittsburgh is a central location, too! (Well, no. Not > really. I'm just trying to be persuasive. Did it work?) I've responded to Christine directly, but I should probably note that I don't set up my own lecture trips, so I don't decide where I'll be going. If a group wants to bring me out, I'm happy to work with them to make that happen. Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, Denver in October (as a guest speaker at the SCA's Known World Costume Symposium), and Boston in November. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [28,387]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: "Deredere Galbraith" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:54:04 +0100 Deredere, It's magnificent! yours, in awe, Stevie ----- Original Message ----- > Hi, > > Yes it is finished!!!!! > http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html > > Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) . > > Greetings, > Deredere > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume nancy kiel [39,388]CSuX: is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap rayon? From: "Nancy Kiel" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:32:17 -0400 I thought the "velvet" part related technically to how the fabric was cut, so rayon velvet is made of rayon fibers and cut to have a nap, so you could have velvet made of any type of fabric in theory. I expect we see mostly rayon because that's the cheapest type to produce. Nancy Kiel nancy_kiel@hotmail.com Never tease a weasel! This is very good advice. For the weasel will not like it And teasing isn't nice. >> > >>Somehow I doubt that velvets from the Renaissance were 80% rayon. But >>someone posted today about linen velvet - that I've never heard of. >> >>Janet > > >There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used in >either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my head I >can't remember where the reference is... > >Cheers, >Danielle MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[9,389]CSuX: seven works of mercy - help! :) Subject: [h-cost] Seven works of mercy - help! :) From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:51:47 -0400 Hi- I just recently became aware of a privately held Pieter Breughel the Younger (or contemporary) painting of the seven works of mercy. Cannot find a picture of it in books or anywhere else - anyone have a hint? Constance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume janet davis [18,390]CSuX: silk velvet Subject: Re: [h-cost] RE:Silk Velvet From: "Janet Davis" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:54:30 -0400 > My favourite local fabric store, Designer Fabrics (www.designerfabrics.to), > carries 100% silk velvet for approx. $140 Canadian/metre (and it's really > narrow fabric). Thanks for posting the site (I think). Not that I need any more fabric or anything but they have some very nice things. Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume deredere galbraith [13,391]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: Deredere Galbraith Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:02:55 +0200 Hi, I am looking for more information of this portrait. http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [14,392]CSuX: testing Subject: [h-cost] Testing From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:09:02 -0400 Just testing to see if this message goes through. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume penny ladnier [15,393]CSuX: testing Subject: Re: [h-cost] Testing From: "Penny Ladnier" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:17:07 -0400 Thank you Eliza, Kimiko, and Robin for helping me find out what the problem was on my end. The problem has been resolved. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery & Costume Classroom www.costumegallery.com www.costumeclassroom.com [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Plugit.com Virus Scanners (http://www.plugit.com)] h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [11,394]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "David" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:17:06 -0700 > Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, Where, and when in August? Pam Dotson h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume colleen mcdonald [18,395]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Colleen McDonald" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:21:42 -0700 > Upcoming plans: I'll be in Seattle in August, Where, and when in August? Pam Dotson>> August 9th in Woodinville I can send you all of the details, if you'd like, Pam. I'm the one organizing the event ;-) If anyone else is interested, let me know and I will email the information privately. Colleen h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume colleen mcdonald [15,396]CSuX: anyone seen this source? Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source? From: "Colleen McDonald" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:47:46 -0700 I found this book listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was wondering if anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it? It sounds like it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching, but $90 US is a lot to pay for a source when I don't know how useful it will be. KLESSE, Brigitte. Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14. Jahrhunderts. [Cologne?] 1958. [4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln. A scholarly study & classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian painting, especially in the depiction of costume. Extensive references throughout; bibl, p108-17. Important study, later expanded with illustrations & published in 1967. [CSROT 2516]. Bookseller Inventory #(IG354) Thanks! Colleen h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [51,397]CSuX: anyone seen this source? Subject: RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:14:10 -0700 No but, it also mean from silk fabric/textile goods. Which makes it even more interesting. "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Colleen McDonald ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:48 PM ~To: h-costume@indra.com ~Subject: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source? ~ ~I found this book listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was wondering if ~anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it? It sounds like ~it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching, but $90 US is a lot to pay ~for a source when I don't know how useful it will be. ~ ~KLESSE, Brigitte. ~Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14. Jahrhunderts. ~[Cologne?] 1958. ~ [4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln. A scholarly study ~& classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian painting, especially in the ~depiction of costume. Extensive references throughout; bibl, p108-17. Important ~study, later expanded with illustrations & published in 1967. [CSROT 2516]. ~Bookseller Inventory #(IG354) ~ ~Thanks! ~ ~Colleen ~ ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume elizabeth young [22,398]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: Elizabeth Young Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:28:39 -0700 Deredere Galbraith wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for more information of this portrait. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg > > Greetings, > Deredere Boucher, in 20,000 Years of Fashion, p 223, plate 443, gives this as Isabella of Portugal, Wife of Charles V, c. 1535 Madrid, Prado. By Titian scrumptious! liz young h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume charlene charette [47,399]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Charlene Charette Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:36:29 -0500 Robin Netherton wrote: > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, Saragrace Knauf wrote: > > >>I think it is a great idea. I wonder if you could work up some >>criteria for people to go by? Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or >>perhaps a couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up >>what they go by....looking forward to seeing how it develops! > > > Ah, but that would spoil it ;-) > > I get the impression that the site is really about, well, impressions -- > that is, would the average SCA member, seeing you at an event, get a > "period" feel from your visual look? Do you contribute to the period > atmosphere on a gut level, for people who may not be "educated" enough to > understand the details and decisions of your clothing? > > That's very different from situations where you provide documentation and > explain the details and reasons for what you've done, which is what > happens in competitions, classes, and formal displays. Those activities > can educate the group members and raise standards over the long run, of > course. > > The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level > of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I > don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid > competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the > community level of understanding. A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern > materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience > interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic > costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants' > experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event. > > --Robin > > > > -- You can fool too many people too much of the time. -- James Thurber h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [15,400]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:37:34 -0700 (PDT) > Hi, > > I am looking for more information of this portrait. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg > The portrait is Isabella of Portugal. What else do you want to know? Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [32,401]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: Kimiko Small Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:18:43 -0700 Wow Deredere, That just looks wonderful! Congratulations on finishing this exquisite outfit. I am glad to see someone who has replicated this garment, and very well, too. You have given me something great to aspire to reach. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Kimiko At 04:25 PM 6/16/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Hi, > >Yes it is finished!!!!! >http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kimiko small [40,402]CSuX: renaissance period silk shiny or not? Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not? From: Kimiko Small Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:34:30 -0700 Hi all, I have a question that may have been dealt with before, but I wanted to ask anyway. I was looking at the site http://www.amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=29, and the comment about the silk partlet "the parlet looks satin-y... is that just an artifact of the picture?" This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing this time period? Why or why not? I have a large image of Hans Holbein's "The Ambassadors", and the pink sleeves and underdoublet appear to be satin. Is this not the reality of the textiles of the period? Not to mention other paintings I have seen. Clouet's "Portrait of Francis I" is another that seems to show a shiny satin. I ask, because I want to do a nobles dress in silk charmeuse, which I think will be thick enough and soft enough, is breathable, dyeable and washable. However, if it is not appropriate, I would like to know which modern silks would be appropriate for replicating gowns of this time period. Thanks for any and all replies. Kimiko Kimiko Small Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com "When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume drea leed [21,403]CSuX: renaissance period silk shiny or not? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not? From: Drea Leed Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:03:42 -0400 (EDT) > > This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing > this time period? Why or why not? Silk came in both shiny and non-shiny/duller weaves. Satin was a popular fabric of the time; their silk satin was much stiffer than the charmeuse silk you find nowadays. You can still buy heavy silk satin from places like Thai Silks, but you'll be shelling out $20 to $30/yd for the heavy stiff stuff that best replicates the 16th c. look. I've found that you can get a relatively accurate "look" by backing charmeuse satin with a stiff canvas or similar stiff fabric. Good luck, Drea h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [69,404]CSuX: renaissance period silk shiny or not? Subject: RE: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not? From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:05:21 -0700 I have lots of examples in my electronic stash of pictures representing shiny silk-totally period for a broad range of time within the renaissance. If you need examples I would be happy to send them to you or load them up on my (under-reconstruction) website. "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Kimiko Small ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 2:35 PM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: [h-cost] Renaissance period silk shiny or not? ~ ~Hi all, ~ ~I have a question that may have been dealt with before, but I wanted to ask ~anyway. ~ ~I was looking at the site ~http://www.amiperiodornot.com/details.mhtml?image_id=29, and the comment ~about the silk partlet "the parlet looks satin-y... is that just an ~artifact of the picture?" ~ ~This had me wondering if silk is not supposed to be "satiny" or shiny duing ~this time period? Why or why not? ~ ~I have a large image of Hans Holbein's "The Ambassadors", and the pink ~sleeves and underdoublet appear to be satin. Is this not the reality of the ~textiles of the period? Not to mention other paintings I have seen. ~Clouet's "Portrait of Francis I" is another that seems to show a shiny satin. ~ ~I ask, because I want to do a nobles dress in silk charmeuse, which I think ~will be thick enough and soft enough, is breathable, dyeable and washable. ~However, if it is not appropriate, I would like to know which modern silks ~would be appropriate for replicating gowns of this time period. ~ ~Thanks for any and all replies. ~ ~Kimiko ~ ~ ~Kimiko Small ~Costumer, Fiber Artist, Web Designer, Wife and Mother ~kimiko@kimiko1.com; http://www.kimiko1.com ~"When there is fear, there is no creativity" ~ C. Lowell ~ ~Graphic Intern at Costume Gallery ~http://www.costumegallery.com ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume constancefairfax@cs.com[8,405]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: ConstanceFairfax@cs.com Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:19:43 -0400 I think all of the judges should have IDs so you can rate the judges. :) Some of the comments suprised me more than the costumes. Constance h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume janet davis [15,406]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: "Janet Davis" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 19:03:56 -0400 The Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html has a nice large reproduction. The only information given about it is that it was commissioned by her husband Charles V in 1548, after the lady had been dead for 10 years! Janet Janet Davis Castle Furnishings http://www.medievalbookstore.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [37,407]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:50:19 -0700 I never noticed it before on this portrait, but are those pins I see running up the bodice? "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" Isocrates ~-----Original Message----- ~From: h-costume-bounces@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-bounces@indra.com] On ~Behalf Of Janet Davis ~Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:04 PM ~To: Historical Costume ~Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses ~ ~The Web Gallery of Art http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/welcome.html has a nice ~large reproduction. The only information given about it is that it was ~commissioned by her husband Charles V in 1548, after the lady had been dead ~for 10 years! ~ ~Janet ~ ~Janet Davis ~Castle Furnishings ~http://www.medievalbookstore.com ~ ~h-costume mailing list ~h-costume@mail.indra.com ~http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [16,408]CSuX: Subject: [h-cost] From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:28 -0700 Portugal-Norris again.....was portrait of Spanish princess The portrait of Isabel by Titian has always made me wonder about the 'portrait' Norris has of Eleanor of Austria, Queen of Portugal on Plate XL (also on the cover). The two women look very much alike and I have never seen the 'real' portrait his painting is based on. Any one know if there really is a full portrait of Eleanor and if there is any relationship between her and Isabel? Sg h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume rob and laurie gage [30,409]CSuX: h-costume digest, vol 2, issue 330 Subject: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 2, Issue 330 From: rob and laurie gage Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:24:27 -0400 the v&a has an example of wool velvet in the textile display, c.16th c. on the far back wall of the first room. on the left. kind of a grey-blue... yeah, i think it's time to make the trip back:) laurie On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 11:05 AM, h-costume-request@indra.com wrote: > Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:25:55 -0500 > From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg > Subject: Re: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or is the nap > rayon? > To: Historical Costume > Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20030615202455.02ddaeb0@smtp-server.mn.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > There was also wool velvet - I've recently found reference being used > in > either late 16th or early 17th century England but off the top of my > head I > can't remember where the reference is... > > Cheers, > Danielle h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kathryn wolters [27,410]CSuX: finished my partlet!! Subject: Re: [h-cost] Finished my partlet!! From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:32:13 -0700 (PDT) That is absolutely stunning,Deredere About how many hours of work did you lavish on this project? Albra Deredere Galbraith wrote: Hi, Yes it is finished!!!!! http://www.deredere.dds.nl/Partlet/Partlet.html Hopefully I will have better pictures after my vakation :-) . Greetings, Deredere h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume kathryn wolters [23,411]CSuX: la mode bagatelle Subject: Re: [h-cost] La Mode Bagatelle From: KATHRYN WOLTERS Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 17:37:10 -0700 (PDT) While I, on the other hand, adore the Regency styles ---and used La Mode Bagatelle's patterns to make a whole wardrobe for a Regency weekend:) Yes, they are terrific patterns.One day --I hope to own the pattern for the Artistic Reform Tea Gown as well. Sigh!! Albra Saragrace Knauf wrote: Aren't those great patterns! I don't care much for the Regency style, but I have the Artistic Reform Tea gown. http://lamodebagatelle.com/art.htm I want to make it for my cousin who has this lovely 'plantation' in the south... h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume catherine olanich raymond [36,412]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Catherine Olanich Raymond Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:57:41 -0400 On Monday 16 June 2003 11:57 am, Robin Netherton wrote: [text cut here] > The responses on this site say as much about the general knowledge level > of the respondents as they do about the clothing of the individuals. I > don't see it as an assessment only of the clothes, or as any sort of valid > competition for costume quality -- more of a "finger on the pulse" of the > community level of understanding. Of course. After all, it's hard to judge whether the fabrics used even *look* authentic on the basis of a mediocre-quality picture on a website. I can easily imagine that many costumes that might photograph well, and have a convincing appearance in a photograph, would look grossly modern when viewed directly in good light. >A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern > materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience > interprets as "medieval." And while that may not be great historic > costuming, it can contribute positively to the other participants' > experience because of how it affects the atmosphere of an event. Also true. I found the site to be a lot of fun, but it seems to me that the folk who voted were basing their opinion on general appearance rather than specifics. -- Cathy Raymond “Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.†Albert Einstein h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume saragrace knauf [36,413]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: RE: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "Saragrace Knauf" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:09:31 -0700 I had a look at the site, its fun! I'm working on some standards to put on my web site (due June 30th - at midnight no doubt) which I was going to use as a guide for a historical costumers directory, but who to include and who not too seemed a bit bigger than Ben Hur. For the moment and I've decided to concentrate on a "find a portrait" database. That will keep me busy enough. The directory might come later. maybe. It would be nice. A directory of people who do custom historical clothing. Knowing me, I'd probably offend everyone! ugghhh I'll have some standards for my own work though if anyone is interested in knowing just what I think museum quality, reenactment, fair, theatrical or inspired means in terms of seam finishes, fabric choice etc. One thing I have been doing over the last year is collecting period sewing tools and I photographed them over the weekend, including a 1450 pair of scissors I managed to lay my hands on and they will be on my site as well as some period buttons. I really should have been an heiress. I could spend all day doing this! Lisa ----- Original Message ----- > I think it is a great idea. I wonder if you could work up some criteria > for people to go by? Lisa Sinervo is working on some, or perhaps a > couple of laurels could put their heads together to put up what they go > by....looking forward to seeing how it develops! > > "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" > Isocrates > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume e house [44,414]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "E House" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:11:07 -0500 (Disclaimer--Not My Period.) I think the commentor was not suggesting that satin wasn't period, but rather that it may not have been the norm for a _partlet_. From my memory of illustrations/portraits/etc of the time, most of the partlets were more along sheer or at least lightweight lines. (Excepting the dress-matching ones like those Mary Tudor is often shown wearing.) By the way, I think it would really help if the person posting the picture could attach a short description directly to the picture, somehow.. one that everyone who votes on the outfit would see. Like "Flemish noblewoman's gown based on a 1509 painting by Gerard David" or even something generic like "mid 16th C. English merchant." Or better yet, a short paragraph! If nothing else, those who have some sort of graphics utility could type in a few words at the bottom before they upload their picture. As to the actual voting... it is interesting to see the general level of knowledge people have about Not My Period garments. I mean, yeah, I could tell instantly that the post-1600 guy was out of the SCA period--although, the website's title is only "Am I Period Or Not" rather than "Am I SCA Period Or Not." =} But I couldn't do more than judge the design and construction abilities of most of the periods represented there, or notice dead obvious stuff like, ykno, zippers or Victorianisms. I just haven't looked closely enough at those to be able to judge the details like depth of trim, necklines, choice of decoration, etc. And yet I want to see the comments on that picture, and the next picture, so I vote anyway. I just give 'em a straight 7 unless I'm familiar enough with the period to be able to begin to judge. And a text description provided by the person in question would help with that problem... I could pop open my several gig image files, browse to the right time period, and do a bit of compare and contrast. I still wouldn't be able to judge like I could judge a garment from c1500 Flanders, or even most times during the 15th century, but I could give a much fairer try and make comments/ask questions that are more to the point. Turn the site into resource rather than recess. E h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume e house [16,415]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: "E House" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:49:50 -0500 >A Pre-Raphaelite costume made of modern > materials might actually score well, if it has a "look" that the audience > interprets as "medieval." And then, there are those eras & areas where a super-authentic recreation STILL looks pre-Raphaelite... (great big 15th C. Flemish square-necked kirtle sigh... OK, not really, cuz they're So. Dang. Pretty. Or, "Those are Godspeed sleeves!" when they're Christine de Pisan-type 'integral tippets'...) E h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine rowberd (kirrily robert) [20,416]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:58:55 -0400 E wrote: > And a text description provided by the person in question would help with > that problem... I could pop open my several gig image files, browse to the > right time period, and do a bit of compare and contrast. I still wouldn't > be able to judge like I could judge a garment from c1500 Flanders, or even > most times during the 15th century, but I could give a much fairer try and > make comments/ask questions that are more to the point. Turn the site into > resource rather than recess. OK, You've talked me into it. I've added a description field. Anyone who wants theirs updated to include a description, drop me an email with your picture ID. K. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine rowberd (kirrily robert) [17,417]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "E House" Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:08:08 -0500 Yay! I thought I remembered seeing some amIblankornot having some descriptions, but I wasn't sure if it could be done. E ----- Original Message ----- > OK, You've talked me into it. I've added a description field. Anyone who > wants theirs updated to include a description, drop me an email with your > picture ID. > > K. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume sue clemenger [13,418]CSuX: what the heck are these colorful bumps? Subject: Re: [h-cost] What the heck are these colorful bumps? From: Sue Clemenger Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:01:51 -0600 Looks like something out of Escher, doesn't it? --sue Robin Netherton wrote: > > Me, though, I'm looking at the wonderful example of medieval perspective > in this illumination -- especially the right-hand doorway (look at the > top) and the angle of the shutters on the back center window. I'm getting > dizzy... h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume elizabeth young [31,419]CSuX:artistic dress, dawn s velvet, is your silk Subject: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk From: Elizabeth Young Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 21:08:52 -0700 N Kipar wrote: > --- Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > > > >>I've just discovered that I have 5 yards of dark green >>rayon velvet. Any ideas on what to turn it into? Or >>shall I just give it a good steaming (it has a couple >>of creases), and sell it on eBay? >> >> > >What a shame you are on another continent! I just said to Teddy that I am >looking for a nice dark green velvet for an artistic teagown made with the La >Mode Bagatelle pattern. Poots! Would have bought it off you, but postage is too >much. :-( > > > Ooooh, which pattern elements are you going to use for your dress? I just ordered that pattern, and have been drooling over it, even if it is not here yet. liz young h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [32,420]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: Robin Netherton Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:52:14 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 16 Jun 2003, E House wrote: > By the way, I think it would really help if the person posting the > picture could attach a short description directly to the picture, > somehow.. one that everyone who votes on the outfit would see. Like > "Flemish noblewoman's gown based on a 1509 painting by Gerard David" > or even something generic like "mid 16th C. English merchant." Or > better yet, a short paragraph! If nothing else, those who have some > sort of graphics utility could type in a few words at the bottom > before they upload their picture. Then again, when you *see* someone at an event, they don't get to wear a label saying what period they're aiming for... > ...I just haven't looked closely enough at those to be able to judge > the details like depth of trim, necklines, choice of decoration, etc. > And yet I want to see the comments on that picture, and the next > picture, so I vote anyway. I just give 'em a straight 7 unless I'm > familiar enough with the period to be able to begin to judge. Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you don't have to vote in order to see the pictures. I haven't been voting (not my place -- I'm not in the SCA and won't presume to judge what should go over), and I just hit the "random pic" link on the left to move on. --Robin h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[26,421]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:44:53 EDT In a message dated 6/17/03 12:36:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, robin@shell.nightowl.net writes: > Unless I'm terribly mistaken, you don't have to vote in order to see the > pictures. I haven't been voting (not my place -- I'm not in the SCA and > won't presume to judge what should go over), and I just hit the "random > pic" link on the left to move on. Nope, voting isn't mandatory. I've voted. I mean, c'mon. There's two guys on there that you can't possibly resist- they've got terribly impressive codpieces. I mean, one's bejewelled! But then, I think he may have been playing a very impressive noble, or the king. There's some very nicely done garb on there. And I think I saw Drea! Or not, but she sure looked like Drea, middle/lower class Flemish. The picture was a bit blurry, so I couldn't be sure. But hey, there was a Japanese costume/garb picture too. Impressively done, though I was pondering SCAness. Didn't vote because I thought it was too lovely/well-done to whine. By the way, did anyone see the "Judith" (I think the name is Judith) type picture? With the head? I was very amused. I mean, granted it was a photo manip, but it was great! Besides..no one really wants a guy to lose his head. That would ruin the garb! Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume e house [13,422]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "E House" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:01:15 -0500 Nah, you don't have to vote. But it's a lot easier to see the comments for each if you do, and I'm getting all sorts of kick out of them. And I don't GO to events. I'm not in the SCA or any other reenactment, etc group. =} All my spare time is spoken for; websites are my main costume-viewing venue. E h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume michaela [29,423]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: michaela Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:01:49 +1200 > I think all of the judges should have IDs so you can rate the judges. > :) Some of the comments suprised me more than the costumes. I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought.. What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the era the garment is supposed to represent. And how that bloke with a dalmation spotted fake fur over coat (shaube?) got an average of 9... Great work on the cossie.. but period? Nice to look at garb that hasn't been seen elsewhere though:) I mean, a lot of those people probably don't have their own site and so we get to see the photos through being hosted by this one:) I won't be uploading my orange burgundian;) I can just imagine all the people saying but it's such a modern colour;) never mind that orange dyes are available either side and that I've seen more than a few (repros of) paintings with a tint very similar;) Speaking of which, must get back to allpying the velvet trim.. sigh... michaela http://costumes.glittersweet.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[18,424]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 01:20:46 EDT In a message dated 6/17/03 1:09:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought.. > What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the > era the garment is supposed to represent. > Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times that trim along the hem of a garment is rare. I have pictures of Queen E. and her minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise. But that could just be the percocet. I mean, granted it could be an inch or so *above* the hem, but...? Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume =?iso-8859-1?q?n=20kipar?= [22,425]CSuX:artistic dress, dawn s velvet, is your silk Subject: Re: Artistic dress, Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:13:35 +0100 (BST) --- Elizabeth Young wrote: > > Ooooh, which pattern elements are you going to use for your dress? I > just ordered that pattern, and have been drooling over it, even if it is > not here yet. I don't know yet! That's the probloem, they are so wonderful, all these possibilities that I keep drooling over them, just like you, and can't make up my mind. I bought it a couple of years ago and since then I grab it and ccasionally just look through it :-) Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume =?iso-8859-1?q?n=20kipar?= [21,426]CSuX:dawn s velvet, is your silk velvet 100% velvet or Subject: Re: Dawn's velvet, RE: [h-cost] FW:Is your silk velvet 100% velvet or From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:38:09 +0100 (BST) --- Dawn Jacobson wrote: > > After seeing the patterns, can I steal your idea? I'm > thinking maybe cream-colored silk with the dark green > velvet... Any time! because I steal your cream coloured silk idea right back: I just remembered I have some of that flying around! Now, Teddy said he'll have some huge velvet curtains for me in dark green... ;-) Nicole ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume =?iso-8859-1?q?n=20kipar?= [42,427]CSuX: anyone seen this source? Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this source? From: =?iso-8859-1?q?N=20Kipar?= Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:32:15 +0100 (BST) Colleen, it's a dissertation from a German Uni, thus it will be available in one way shape or form via ILL. Go and try to order it instead of paying so much money for something no one seems to kow about? Just my tuppence. Okay, so I just got a Cambridge thesis that I need to read from the BL, but... on MICROFICHE! *screams* :-) Nicole --- Colleen McDonald wrote: > I found this book listed on www.abebooks.com this morning and I was wondering > if anyone on this list actually seen it or could give me commentary on it? > It sounds like it could have a lot of good stuff for what I'm researching, > but $90 US is a lot to pay for a source when I don't know how useful it will > be. > > KLESSE, Brigitte. > Die Darstellung von Seidenstoffen auf italienischen Bildern des 14. > Jahrhunderts. [Cologne?] 1958. > [4] 128 [2]p. 15 x 21. Paper. - Dissertation; Universität Köln. A scholarly > study & classification of the textile motifs found in 14th c Italian > painting, especially in the depiction of costume. Extensive references > throughout; bibl, p108-17. Important study, later expanded with illustrations > & published in 1967. [CSROT 2516]. Bookseller Inventory #(IG354) > > Thanks! > > Colleen > > ===== Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. ~ J.R.R. Tolkien Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Yahoo! Messenger http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [29,428]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:38:22 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- > In a message dated 6/17/03 1:09:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > thebruce@ihug.co.nz writes: > > > I absolutely second that opinion.. A few comments I read and thought.. > > What??? Using sweeping generalisations without actually looking at the > > era the garment is supposed to represent. > > > > Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times that > trim along the hem of a garment is rare. I have pictures of Queen E. and her > minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise. But that could just be the > percocet. I mean, granted it could be an inch or so *above* the hem, but...? > > Christine And the classic remark "Remember, purple was only worn by queens". Dianne h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume melanie wilson [18,429]CSuX: china dolls Subject: [h-cost] China dolls From: "Melanie Wilson" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 12:33:12 +0100 Some time ago I told somebody on list )Leif maybe ?)about a friend who did China dolls I've just tried to find their email, but it looks like I lost it with my hard drive. So did anyone keep the web address please ? Mel This e-mail, and any attachment, is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify me immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of the Company, unless specifically stated h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume katherine rowberd (kirrily robert) [19,430]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "Katherine Rowberd (Kirrily Robert)" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:30:17 -0400 In lists.sca.h-costume, you wrote: > There's some very nicely done garb on > there. And I think I saw Drea! Or not, but she sure looked like Drea, > middle/lower class Flemish. The picture was a bit blurry, so I couldn't be sure. Actually, that was me. Drea's much slimmer than I am. The bodice was based on Drea's pattern generator, though. That outfit was my first attempt at womens Elizabethan (I used to have a male persona) and is roughly based on the sketch of Holbein's family. FWIW, numbers 1, 2 and 3 are me, and number 41 is one that I made (but it's an awful pic... I can't believe she uploaded that!) K. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [14,431]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:47:09 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- Besides..no one really wants a guy > to lose his head. That would ruin the garb! > Oh I don't know.... depends on the garb. Kidding.... I'm kidding! *returns to lurking* h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume e house [22,432]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "E House" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:48:35 -0400 If you click on Top Ten or Bottom Ten or Latest Ten, it doesn't even give you the option to vote. It just displays the appropriate 10 photos. When you click on one, you get all of the comments on it. ----- Original Message ----- > Nah, you don't have to vote. But it's a lot easier to see the comments for > each if you do, and I'm getting all sorts of kick out of them. > > And I don't GO to events. I'm not in the SCA or any other reenactment, etc > group. =} All my spare time is spoken for; websites are my main > costume-viewing venue. > > E > > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume beteena paradise [17,433]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: "Beteena Paradise" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:05:07 -0500 Yeah, but there's actually more than 20 entries now! =} And even if you keep doing 'random pic' yeah, you can eventually see all the comments; it's just much more time consuming. E ----- Original Message ----- > If you click on Top Ten or Bottom Ten or Latest Ten, it doesn't even give > you the option to vote. It just displays the appropriate 10 photos. When you > click on one, you get all of the comments on it. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume icegirlnin@aol.com[22,434]CSuX: shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Shiny silk, and amiperiodornot.com From: IceGirlNIN@aol.com Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 09:36:46 EDT In a message dated 6/17/03 8:34:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, katherine@infotrope.net writes: > Actually, that was me. Drea's much slimmer than I am. The bodice was > based on > Drea's pattern generator, though. That outfit was my first attempt at > womens > Elizabethan (I used to have a male persona) and is roughly based on the > sketch > of Holbein's family. > Woops! Well, I said the picture was a tad blurry- and when I actually saw Drea in person about two months ago, she was putting on a Darth Vader helmet. So maybe I didn't get a great look at her ;-) And if that's your first attempt...wow! Very nice! Christine h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cascio michael [37,435]CSuX: blackwork shift questions/beading questions Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions From: Cascio Michael Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 06:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Hi All, I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few questions. On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or would it just be a band across the front where it would show? I know Janet Arnold mentions a square neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a picture of it anywhere. I'm working on a shift with the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered partlet and sleeves. Second question---One of the beading magazines I pick up occasionally has some choker patterns that I thought would make nice beaded trims. The chokers were made with a light weight gauge wire but as I want to sew these patterns down to a garment edge should I use wire and make the choker as per the instructions and then sew it onto the velvet? Since I was going to put a band of velvet along the edge of the sleeves and hem, like a guard, I could stitch each bead down to the velvet and then take it off should I need to clean the garment. And since I'm going to put these on a garment should I use flat beads or the round beads the pattern suggests? Any help would be most appreciated. Cassandra Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume cascio michael [29,436]CSuX: blackwork shift questions/beading questions Subject: [h-cost] blackwork shift questions/beading questions From: "Cascio Michael" Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:13:52 -0400 This is a bit earlier than the period you are asking about, I believe, but from portraits of Anne Boleyn and other Tudor Era women, you can clearly see that the blackwork on the square neck shift goes all the way around the neckline. Regarding the beading, I can't wait to hear the answers as that sounds like a really cool idea! ----- Original Message ----- > Hi All, > I'm finally caught up on my posts and have a few > questions. > On square neck Elizabethan shifts with the > blackwork embroidery around the edge of the square > neck would the embroidery go around the entire edge or > would it just be a band across the front where it > would show? I know Janet Arnold mentions a square > neck shift somewhere but I don't recall ever seeing a > picture of it anywhere. I'm working on a shift with > the low square neck and blackwork on the cuffs as per > the Helena Snakenborg, although you can't see her > shift sleeves underneath that beautifully embroidered > partlet and sleeves. h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume grace morris [45,437]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish Subject: Re: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish From: Grace Morris Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:52:40 -0400 Sounds great, in general, but I just remembered -- I'll be in London then! I'm not used to thinking of myself not at home. Are you arranging this for a group, and do you arrange other cool things, too? I'd love to attend something else in the future. Let me know if there *is* anything in the future. Thank you, Pam Dotson h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Anderson, Ruth Mathilda. (1979). Hispanic Costume 1480-1530. New York: Hispanic Society of America. Bernis, Carmen. (1962). Indumentaria Española en Tiempos de Carlos V. __________________. (1978). Trajes y Modas en la España de los Reyes Catolicós. I. Las Mujeres. II. Los Hombres 15th, 16thc. Have Fun! Jessamyn/Grace > From: Deredere Galbraith > Reply-To: Historical Costume > Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:02:55 +0200 > To: H-Costume > Subject: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses > > Hi, > > I am looking for more information of this portrait. > http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~triade/Weddingdress/images/rendress.jpg > > Greetings, > Deredere > > h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume [19,438]CSuX: looking for portrait of a 16th century spanish prinses Subject: RE: [h-cost] Looking for portrait of a 16th century Spanish prinses From: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 08:38:54 -0700 (PDT) > I never noticed it before on this portrait, but are those pins I see > running up the bodice? > > "The root of education is bitter, the fruit sweet" > Isocrates > > To me it looks like this is the edge of the trim that runs around the neckline and in a line down from the shoulder to the waist. But there is the Jane Seymour example so who knows for sure? Diana h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume robin netherton [77,439]CSuX: competitive costuming-authenticity nuts Subject: Re: [h-cost] competitive costuming-authenticity nuts From: Robin Netherton Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:08:02 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 IceGirlNIN@aol.com wrote: > Well, I would like to know about the person who claimed several times > that trim along the hem of a garment is rare. I have pictures of > Queen E. and her minions dancing in my head to prove otherwise. But > that could just be the percocet. I mean, granted it could be an inch > or so *above* the hem, but...? Well, I didn't make the comments, but I saw one of them, and it was on a garment several centuries earlier than Queen Elizabeth; it looked 12th century to me. Hem trim is one of those dicey issues -- appropriate in some periods and not in others. What makes this more complicated is that in some periods hem trim appears in many artworks, but seems to be associated with only certain types of figures. In 14th and 15th century Western Europe, I've found I'm likely to see hem trim in certain artworks of saints, angels, and historic queens, for instance, but not on ordinary people. The sheer number of these images can make it look as though hem trim is routine, until you take the entire corpus of art and start breaking it down for the patterns of who has it and who doesn't, and in what contexts. For instance, in the Unicorn Tapestries, (late 15th c. France), the "Lady" figure has many elements to her costume that are clearly fantastical, that are meant to mark her as an "otherworldly" or "super-natural" figure, while the maid with her is dressed extremely finely but within the bounds of reason and physical capability. One of the differences is in trim placement and style -- most of the Lady figures have jeweled trim, including hem trim, but the maid never has hem trim (and I think has no jeweled trims, but I'd need to doublecheck that). In close to the same period, there's a large Last Judgment painting at the Groeninge Museum in Bruges in which people entering Heaven are being given robes that look ordinary except for jeweled bands on the hems; in that context, this detail is practically a label for "glorious clothing of Heaven that is far finer than anything on the real earth." The nature of the trim and the garment it's on is important, too -- you can't lump all "hem trim" together. A decorative stitching pattern or narrow woven band might have been used as an edge finish in real garments, but that doesn't mean that wide brocaded bands with gold or jewels would have been used in the same position. Or a band might be shown on a mantle or other overgarment that does not reach the ground, while ground-length garments do not have them. That's especially a concern for men's garments and priest's vestments; seeing hem trims on certain garments on these people doesn't mean they're appropriate for noblewomen's floor-length gowns. And then you get into the issue of depiction -- some sculpture techniques, for instance, use what looks like decorative bands to divide areas of different textures, but that may or may not have any resemblance to what the clothing looked like. Similarly, an illuminator might highlight a garment edge with a thin line of white, gold, or a contrasting color -- to divide color areas and indicate depth and layering, not to represent actual trim. Often people who look at artwork as clothing documentation don't have the awareness of what elements of the images reflect artistic style, accepted iconography/symbolism, or handling of the medium, in that place and period. Clothes people also tend to assume that details they see on clothing are representing something about real clothes. Very often, that's not the case ... but it takes a lot of eye-training and comparisons and contextual analysis to make the distinctions. Hem trim is just one of those issues that comes up over and over